WARNING! Fake Pamp Suisse bars!
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Posts: 9
Lately there are numerous reports of fake Pamp Suisse 2.5 gram - 10 gram gold bars floating around. Especially on the west coast.
Five of the 10 gram fakes walked into my shop this morning. I might have been fooled if I hadnt heard about this scam just the day before. The gentleman changed his mind about selling them when I told him I would have to remove them from their packaging to make sure they weighed out properly.
The fake 10 gram bars weigh 13.6 grams still in their packaging, im not sure about the smaller units.
Keep your eyes peeled!
Five of the 10 gram fakes walked into my shop this morning. I might have been fooled if I hadnt heard about this scam just the day before. The gentleman changed his mind about selling them when I told him I would have to remove them from their packaging to make sure they weighed out properly.
The fake 10 gram bars weigh 13.6 grams still in their packaging, im not sure about the smaller units.
Keep your eyes peeled!
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Comments
<< <i>got him on tape, in the process of backing it up and then yes i intend to file a police report. >>
Good work and welcome to the forum!
and i havent heard any recent reports on fake 1 ouncers, other than the occasional once-in-a-blue-moon type of thing that you hear about any bullion/coin. its all smaller stuff, namely 2.5 gram, 5 gram, and 10 gram Pamp bars, sealed in plastic, serial numbered and everything. they look pretty good. well, good enough.
The good stuff is tungsten with 100 mils of gold plating. These will weigh correctly and will be "right sized". They come in all types and sizes. So, you have to know what your item should look like. Either that or drill it through. Larger sizes need more holes (eg 10 oz could have been drilled and rods of tungsten inserted)
<< <i>I hope there aren't one ounce bars floating around too that are fake. Apmex just strangely sold thousands on ebay at spot with no markup. Never seen a seller sell at spot. >>
That was my first thought, as well..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Aliexpress
Ebay UK Sellers
Great! If anyone is thinking of entering the counterfeiting game, they now know just how to go about it. Thanks for providing them with the information they need.
You can buy the 1 oz fake "gold" PAMP bars for $2.50 from our favorite Chinese replica merchant...Aliexpress..a subsidiary of Alibaba. In addition, you can also buy them from U.K. based eBay sellers
Thanks for promoting the idea of counterfeiting for anyone who may be thinking of a way to cheat people.
was honestly just looking out for the community and giving a heads up. what am i trying to sell that youd be skeptical about? dont blame you, just curious really.
WARNING - WARNING - WARNING - WARNING - WARNING
--------- FAKE PAMP BARS IN THE MARKET ---------
We will post this from time to time over the next couple of weeks to
make sure the dealer community catches the warning.
If you buy bullion, this is important...
Several refining customers of ours unknowingly purchased extremely
realistic looking - yet FAKE Pamp Suissse gold bars. These are now
circulating here on the west coast. When brought in to our facility,
they were analyzed as 92% copper and 4% gold plating.
As you can see from the images below, the packaging and bars can
easily fool someone, especially because they are being sold in small
2.50 gram - 10 gram weights. Please carefully check all gold bars
that you are buying. CAVEAT EMPTOR.
front
back
Happy Trading....
P.S. We opened the packaging today on a "10 Gram bar" and it weighed as
follows:
9.60 grams net of packaging
13.60 grams including packaging
We will have a booth at the FUN show next month and I can bring them.
There have been a few inquiries from CCE members already so ping me if
interested in seeing them at our booth.
Guys that got had, prolly bought cheap, n didnt pay necessary attention, so they paid the customer...
<< <i>Model Number: without copy suisse gold bullion >>
That sucks - big time.
<< <i>got him on tape, in the process of backing it up and then yes i intend to file a police report. >>
Thanks for the info and Hell Yes for getting the guy busted! Welcome to the boards.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
No offense meant blank, had the rums in me
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
<< <i>The good stuff is tungsten with 100 mils of gold plating. These will weigh correctly and will be "right sized". They come in all types and sizes. So, you have to know what your item should look like. Either that or drill it through. Larger sizes need more holes (eg 10 oz could have been drilled and rods of tungsten inserted)
Great! If anyone is thinking of entering the counterfeiting game, they now know just how to go about it. Thanks for providing them with the information they need.
You can buy the 1 oz fake "gold" PAMP bars for $2.50 from our favorite Chinese replica merchant...Aliexpress..a subsidiary of Alibaba. In addition, you can also buy them from U.K. based eBay sellers
Thanks for promoting the idea of counterfeiting for anyone who may be thinking of a way to cheat people.
Have u been living in a glass house? That information, as a precaution, has been posted numerous times before over the years. Yes, even your "highly priced" chunks of silver are being counterfeited.
<< <i>For those who ordered 1OZ Pam Suisse from APMEX, how can I make sure the bars are 100% legit? >>
If the design is totally new you can feel a bit safe it's possibly too new to have a counterfeit
Apmex should know where they got them and what looks good but another AP has bought counterfeit bullion in the past.
Start with checking if Pamp has HQ images of the real thing and see if they match. Many counterfeits are off. We're not in super counterfeit territory quite yet.
Tungsten is a tiny bit less dense than gold. I am not sure on the 1oz size how this will work with in the minting tolerances of Pamp.
Assuming all real Pamp have no differences in weight and volume, then the tungsten ones will be either the right weight but wrong volume, or the wrong weight but right volume.
But real Pamp will vary in weight and volume within tolerances. I don't know if the tungsten ones will be so off they clearly fail despite tolerances.
Then there is cutting it apart.... But you likely don't want to do that.
<< <i>For those who ordered 1OZ Pam Suisse from APMEX, how can I make sure the bars are 100% legit? >>
U can't unless u cut them up ...
<< <i>When brought in to our facility,
they were analyzed as 92% copper and 4% gold plating.
...
P.S. We opened the packaging today on a "10 Gram bar" and it weighed as
follows:
9.60 grams net of packaging
13.60 grams including packaging >>
With those specifications, the bar will be significantly thicker than a real 99.9% pure gold bar.
<< <i>Then there is cutting it apart.... But you likely don't want to do that. >>
...or maybe you do.
<< <i>
<< <i>Then there is cutting it apart.... But you likely don't want to do that. >>
...or maybe you do. >>
I haven't been able to find a company that sells a "speed of sound" tester.
This would be a non-destructive test. I'd reckon(without looking it up) tungsten transmits faster than gold.
I've answered this before and forgot.
They should ring differently, too.
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
Not any longer thanks to allengelhard.com. Since that site exposed the hell out of the counterfeiters there have been very minimal sightings of them and the people who were peddling them. And when they do come up, it's now obvious to spot because of the site. They have fallen off a bit in value, but it has nothing to do with worrying about the counterfeiting aspect of them, none whatsoever.
I dont know how you can sleep providing and promoting public information of where to buy the stuff and how to do it. It sickens me that someone on a website such as this would make that information public. Unforgiveable!
<< <i>Yes, even your "highly priced" chunks of silver are being counterfeited.
Not any longer thanks to allengelhard.com. Since that site exposed the hell out of the counterfeiters there have been very minimal sightings of them and the people who were peddling them. And when they do come up, it's now obvious to spot because of the site. They have fallen off a bit in value, but it has nothing to do with worrying about the counterfeiting aspect of them, none whatsoever.
I dont know how you can sleep providing and promoting public information of where to buy the stuff and how to do it. It sickens me that someone on a website such as this would make that information public. Unforgiveable! >>
Like I said previously, you must have been asleep for the last several years. The information that I supplied has been posted numerous times not only on this forum, but also in the coin forum for the past several years. By visiting those sites, it gives you some idea what is being replicated (counterfeited) and it's also a learning curve how to spot it. Unfortunately, Alibaba is now listed on the NY stock exchange and had the largest US-listed initial public offering. Your comment is an insult to me and the intelligence and integrity of our forum members. (knowledge is power...ignorance is bliss)
Good, because it's meant to be an insult for promoting and condoning counterfeiting!
There's a enormous difference in doing what the OP did by reporting the spotting of fakes, and telling people where to buy the stuff and how to make it.
<< <i>Your comment is an insult to me and the intelligence and integrity of our forum members
Good, because it's meant to be an insult for promoting and condoning counterfeiting!
There's a enormous difference in doing what the OP did by reporting the spotting of fakes, and telling people where to buy the stuff and how to make it. >>
Mmm...stop being a self righteous hypocrite with your comments. And to refresh your memory, a thread that you started last year, identifying the same site.
POM's thread re: Aliexpress
<< <i>Your comment is an insult to me and the intelligence and integrity of our forum members
Good, because it's meant to be an insult for promoting and condoning counterfeiting!
There's a enormous difference in doing what the OP did by reporting the spotting of fakes, and telling people where to buy the stuff and how to make it. >>
Looks like we found something slightly denser than gold or tungsten!
Perhaps you should spend your energy protesting as you seem to be both supremely judgmental of others while excusing your own behavior AND perpetually outraged.
Loves me some shiny!
In some countries I think you loose body parts.
Bring back the fear!
100% Positive BST transactions
<< <i>Your comment is an insult to me and the intelligence and integrity of our forum members
Good, because it's meant to be an insult for promoting and condoning counterfeiting!
There's a enormous difference in doing what the OP did by reporting the spotting of fakes, and telling people where to buy the stuff and how to make it. >>
piecesofme, I don't see it as an issue to bring up the source here on the forum. The vast majority of the individuals here are trustworthy, and active buyers and sellers. The more info that we can share among ourselves the better.
True, it may give one or two individuals an idea on how to go about obtaining these, if they are prone to perpetrate a scam. However... all one really has to do if they have this in mind, is to just type in something like 'source of counterfeit gold' into any search engine, and they will find out exactly what to do. Trying to keep it 'secret' here will not prevent the problem. The info is readily available.
And for you, or anyone to think I have the same viewpoint on ANYTHING from a year ago is asinine! As information is gained, things change that can cause one to have a totally different point of view from as little as a week ago, let alone a f-in YEAR ago.
"It's not the strongest of species that survives, not the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
You old dogs still think of old ways, and in alot of cases those ways of thinking still holds true, but in this matter, you're behind the curve
<< <i>Looks like we found something slightly denser than gold or tungsten! >>
Damn....I spit up my Cheerios!
<< <i>There's a enormous difference in doing what the OP did by reporting the spotting of fakes, and telling people where to buy the stuff and how to make it. >>
im the OP, and i know im new but in my opinion piecesofme is being really weird. and his avatat doesnt help.
Really??? That's how you're going to justufy your providing info. on how to make the stuff?
I guess what you don't get is although the info on how to do so may already be public, you're contributing and promoting the act of counterfeting.
Pointing out that some were spotted in your local coin store is one thing, that's helpful. Providing information on how to make fake bars and where you can buy them (to sell, because why else would you buy them) in an enormous difference.
And posting HQ images of real ones and pointing out differences is also abhorrent?
<< <i>Folks used to be sentenced to death in days of old for doing that.
In some countries I think you loose body parts.
Bring back the fear! >>
Like CHOPMARKS on people, instead of the bullion ? Heaven forbid. Let's just identify the culprits and their minions, and ship them to the Gaza Strip to be the demarcation line. Or to Syria to be the buffer between the people and government.
Or, Afghanistan , as PEACEKEEPERS ? Maybe Gitmo ?
I could think of a few places to park their asses and bring our soldiers home.