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slum22's 1961 Fleer Basketball Set (Officially complete PSA 7 or better! Updated 7/7/15) Scans of fu

It's funny how you remember things (or forget). I first started collecting this set in February of 2012. I had just gotten back into the hobby by submitting 20 1986 Fleer cards (I had bought back when I was collecting years ago) to BGS using a voucher I had been given for subscribing to Beckett Sports Card monthly. I did well on that submission and liked the idea of submitting cards to be graded. For the first time in about 20 years I decided to buy something outside of 1986 Fleer basketball and decided to start collecting 1961 Fleer. My hopes was to get this set in a grade of Near Mint 7. I started this set in early 2012 by buying raw cards from ebay from seller: Battlefield (the scans in the listings looked so great and every item was described in the title as "outstanding" or "sharp". Getting this set graded would be easy with sellers of fine raw cards like this on eBay I thought to myself. Of course, I ended up returning a third of the order when I received them because the cards mysteriously arrived in worse shape than they appeared in the listing. Maybe this would be harder than I thought after all.

I was about to quit my job and start a new business, so I took a break from collecting for about 7 months. I kept buying raw card lots for my first few purchases to varying degrees of success. Several of these cards would actually end up going to PSA later and would get graded (my eye wasn't too bad as the range of grades I received for these early card purchases was between 6 and 8). The problem was several of the cards I purchased also were smaller than the other cards (my introduction to trimming). My first graded card purchase for this set was a Cliff Hagan PSA 7 (I would later upgrade it to the 8 seen below). I bought it in September 2012 right before I officially opened the doors to my business. Around the same time, I joined the Beckett message boards in hopes of learning more about this set and the hobby in general. The guys on that board were very nice but they mainly talked about modern cards (the vintage collectors on there talked about 1986 Fleer). That is when I started coming onto the CU forum. While there aren't a lot of threads about vintage basketball cards on here, the discussions of the hobby and older cards in general helped my understanding greatly. I read for months quietly on here before my first post in January 2013! With my business growing, I began to have less time to search eBay for raw cards and decided to start purchasing more PSA graded cards (I had figured out by now by that for this set PSA would be a better choice of TPG to collect than BVG). Oh, what a slippery slope!

Early on I bought any card that was a good deal that was graded PSA 7. I didn't pay attention to centering or eye appeal or anything like that. I was just collecting labels at the time. After some time on here, I learned by reading threads how to be more selective when buying cards within a grade and the difference between low, mid and high end cards within a grade. Fast forward to today and my most recent purchase is below, the Bill Russell PSA 7, which was an upgrade on the one I had previously in the set (this one has better L/R centering and much better T/B centering than my previous 7). I have countless members of this board to thank, many of whom I have bought, traded and sold cards from this set. And countless others whom I have had the pleasure to become friends with online here via PM. It is great having people who share the passion for this hobby we all care about so much (maybe too much at timesimage). I read countless more threads than I post on and I thank (most) everyone for their shared insights and humor.

It has been slow going the last few months on this set as I am 6 cards away from completion in my goal of 7 or higher. The cards I am missing have not been popping up on eBay in the eye appeal/value ratio I seek so I am learning patience. Below is my update in pictures on where I am in the set. The missing cards are left blank in the slots they should be in.

**UPDATE ON 2/18/15**

The last two cards I need for completion are #13 David Gambee and Sam Jones #23. I also would like to upgrade the two cards I have now in PSA 6: Jerry West IA #66 and Bob Boozer #6. If anyone has any leads on some nice 7's please PM me. Hopefully they are filled in 2015!

**UPDATE ON 4/01/15**

Just got the last card in the mail the other day. Sam Jones RC PSA 8 fills in the last gap in the set. Very happy to have the set completed. There is still work to be done though as I still want to upgrade my two PSA 6 cards to PSA 7 or higher. Thanks to everyone who has followed along!

**UPDATE ON 4/24/15**

I completed the checklist on my last purchase with the Sam Jones. I snagged one of the two cards I need to upgrade my set to full PSA 7 or better status with the Bob Boozer shown below. I just need to upgrade the West IA card to a 7 or better now.

**UPDATE ON 7/7/15**

I officially finished my set in PSA 7 or better with an upgrade on the last card in the set Jerry West IA. I waited a while for this one waiting for just the right one to pop at the right price. I was able to score this one for a high but fair price from an eBay seller through an off eBay deal. Very happy with the finishing touch on this set!

As always, if you have read this far into the thread, I appreciate your patience with my verbosity. Onto the scans!

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Steve
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Comments

  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    I've been having more fun searching for low grade cards with good eye-appeal rather than buying the grade only.

    You have a fantastic looking, strong set of cards there and this was a good read. Thank you. Love the Chamberlain, especially.

    Agree about this forum. I think the CU boards are, by far, the best on the net.


  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think the CU boards are, by far, the best on the net. >>



    Agreed! Great set Steve! May you find high end 7's of the cards you need at low end 6 prices image
  • ssdawg77ssdawg77 Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very nice, good luck with the completion of the set.
  • vintagefunvintagefun Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭
    Sooo close Steve. Such a nice set you've assembled. It's been great following your progress.

    Best of luck with the final pieces!

    Jim
    52-90 All Sports, Mostly Topps, Mostly HOF, and some assorted wax.
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    great project Steve and best wishes getting to the finish line soon. i've always appreciated the simplicity of design and blend of colors in this set. too bad production was so poor back then. i'd speculate that more often than not, the claims of trimmed borders on these cards is the result of Fleer's goof-ups.

    i'd also speculate that Gene Shue fathered the Property Brothers.
  • jmaciujmaciu Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭
    Steve, I am rooting for you to pick up the needed cards quickly. Thanks for sharing your story of this set and scans of all of the cards.
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭
    Good luck. After seeing some raw cards in hand, I'm becoming a fan of this set. Your set looks great.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • Long time lurker of this board. This is my first post. Great set! I too, just started this set in August 2014 after picking up a partial set 29 of 66 graded PSA 5, 6 and 7s. Was only going to upgrade the three PSA 5s and have a set with all PSA 6 and 7s but now my goal is to upgrade all the PSA 6s also. After collecting modern graded basketball cards for many years (mainly Kobe Bryant RCs), and like you, I have a 1986 Fleer Basketball set in PSA 8 & 9, I'm a little surprise on how PSA grades these cards in consideration to centering, the centering on the 1986 PSA 8s are nowhere near as bad as the PSA 8s in the 1961 set. Many of these cards have terrible centering but will still grade out to a PSA 7 or 8. That may force me to buy the label instead of the card to complete the set. Are PSA graders more lenient on vintage cards? Started at #66 on the PSA Registry now at #40. Looks like we going to fight it out to be just out of the Top 20 in this set. Good luck in your quest. That #1 card is a tough one.
  • BenG76BenG76 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭
    Awesome set. Thanks for sharing. I hope you can finish it up soon.
  • JBrulesJBrules Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Steve what a great post!! The 61 Fleer set you have put together is outstanding and what a great feeling to be so close to finishing. I can totally relate to your story as far as focusing on set and going for it. I started out this past February getting back into card collecting after being away from it for almost 25 years. I was mostly a baseball card collector but was always fascinated with basketball cards but only had a few in my collection. I had a 1970 Oscar Robertson (one of my childhood idles) so I figured I would go for that set. My goal was to get PSA 8-9 and for the most part I have achieved that with the first 1/3 of the set. I finally figured out after purchasing most of the first 1/3 of the set that not all PSA 8's are created equally. Also learned that the initials SP (short print) had to be dealt with. I have learned that it is a marathon and to slow down and not be in such a hurry to complete the set. It is as much about the journey as it is the final completion of the set. Not sure how long it will take me to complete the set but I am certain that once I do I will be upgrading more than few of the cards.
  • mikelowell25mikelowell25 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭
    Steve, awesome post and scans and great job reducing your magic number to five!!image

    I can relate to your plight as I am currently working on the 61 set too (although i'm much less further along than you are and only am about 15 cards in) and three other psa graded basketball sets (as well as about three other non-basketball sets) in psa 7 and 8: 69-70, 70-71 and 72-73. As of the end of october I was also working on a fourth set, the 57 set in psa 6 and 7 and was down to only one card for completion when I decided to expedite the process and buy a complete almost all 7 set (69 7's, five 6's, three 8's and three 7.5's).  At the time I did the deal I wasnt sure I wanted to shell out a large sum of money for a second set (especially since I was already only one card from completing the set in psa 6's and 7's!) although this second set was a great opportunity to pretty much upgrade more than 75% of the cards in my original set which consists of about 50 6's, 25 7's, three 6.5's and one 8.  Even though I am primarily a collector and what you might call a reluctant seller (on the rare occasion when I do sell something) I will likely consign or sell my original set somewhere down the road--although its technically not a "set" yet as I still need one more card (and its not the russell but rather #79, ed fleming, which is a super tough common even in psa 6!!)

    Best of luck in picking up those last five quickly (I have the sam jones and would sell it to you but then I would only have 14 cardsimage)


  • seebelowseebelow Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭
    Great post. Thanks for sharing. Amazing great looking set.
    Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all. image
  • This set is amazing! I'm starting to get the set building jones now thanks to you! Good luck with the final few!
  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭
    I wonder who Gene Shue pissed off. Everyone else's action shot has them doing something well. Gene is immortalized "losing the ball".

    Fantastic set, Steve. Really amazing.
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks to everyone who posted so far. Your words of encouragement are definitely appreciated!

    Dawongz--I am honored your first post was on this thread! Congrats on starting this set. I believe I recently sold you my extra John McCarthy PSA 7 on eBay. Small world. Good luck with this set. I haven't looked at my ranking recently (28) apparently if I get the remaining 6 cards I need in PSA 7 then I would end up at #20 (assuming no one else upgraded to a higher ranking).

    Jeff--I definitely agree that quality control is all over the place with this set. Perhaps some of my cards are naturally short as opposed to trimmed. Either way they won't find their way into holdersimage

    Mikelowell25--best of luck with your sets. The 57 Topps set is an absolute beast especially with centering. Maybe I can trade you cards you need for your Sam Jonesimage Great to see another basketball collector. Maybe soon we will get as many hoops threads as wrestling threads on the first page here! Not a dig at wrestling collectors btw, while I don't collect the cards I did watch in the 80's and even have some of the 80's Topps wrestling cards somewhere in my parents house. Amazing the passion some of the wrestling guys have on here.

    I hope other people feel free to throw up scans of their set progress on this thread.


    Steve
  • elsnortoelsnorto Posts: 2,012 ✭✭
    Your post wasn't word obese, it was big boned.

    Terrific set, Steve. I'm not at all a basketball guy, but even I greatly appreciate 1961 Fleer. But I also know she's a cruel mistress... so tempting and attainable, luring you in before you realize what a tough set it is.

    Best of luck to you in finishing out a beautiful collector grade classic set... but I know a lot of the enjoyment is in the hunt!

    All the best to you, and yours, this holiday season.

    Snorto~
  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I wonder who Gene Shue pissed off. Everyone else's action shot has them doing something well. Gene is immortalized "losing the ball". >>



    image
  • Steve - I agree with everyone about how great your post is and your great scans of the cards. Very eye catching and striking with the vivid colors. Thanks for the McCarthy PSA 7, it's a nice card. Just a little background on starting my journey with this set. As a collector of the NBA Greatest 50 set and completing it, I had all the big stars already; Baylor, Wilt, West, and Oscar so when a partial set came up on Ebay I jumped in thinking it wouldn't cost too much to complete the set (boy, was I wrong). At around the same time, I made the decision to wean my Kobe collection and consigned some high $$$$ cards with PWCC and netted about $5K!!! I think almost all of that money has already gone into this set. I think my decision to do the set in PSA 7 and 8 and having to upgrade about 20 PSA 6 cards from the initial partial set has doubled the cost of the set. I love Elsnorto's line -"But I also know she's a cruel mistress... so tempting and attainable, luring you in before you realize what a tough set it is." Totally describes this set. Love the simple design and color combinations of the cards. That #64 Gene Shue IA observation is hilarious. As a life-long Laker fan, something about that #19 card with Tommy Heinsohn and that smile just irks the heck out of me. I'm up to #36 on the Registry now with 82% complete. Good luck on completing your set...you're so close.
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    Got back to WA yesterday afternoon. Back to work today. Awaiting me was a great Xmas present. After months of being on hold waiting for one of the cards I needed to come for sale at a reasonable price, I finally got one of the final 6 cards I needed for my set: #1 Al Attles. This card is a beast especially for centering. This is about as good as it gets for the grade. Big thanks to Steve at BBCE as he had it on eBay as BIN and I emailed him and he gave me a better deal offline. Also up is a PSA 6 Bob Boozer. It is not the PSA 7 I need for my set but it fills an empty hole for now and is a pretty good looking place holder in the meantime. I have a Boozer at Newport now and I have my fingers crossed that it comes back a 7 to replace this one. I updated the scans on the original post to fill these cards in the holes that were there originally. Thanks for looking!

    image
    Steve
  • jmaciujmaciu Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭
    Congrats, Steve, on harpooning a couple of the remaining cards you need for your set.
  • Hi Slum22,

    I was wondering who got the #1 card from BBCE, I paid a whole lot more for my Attles. That was a good buy on your part. Here's my latest acquisitions... 4 down and 8 to go. Glad I could fill the holes but not entirely happy with the centering on the cards and can see upgrading them in the future. That's what I get for not having any patience and not waiting for the right card. That's why this hobby is so expensive for me. I end up with a lot of doubles. Good luck with your set.

    image
  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭
    Great Attles Steve! Can't wait for you to complete this set!
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    Update time! I am fired up as I have picked up another card in the set. I am now down to 2 cards for completion. I also need to upgrade to PSA 6's to accomplish my goal of 7 or better on the set. Anyway, my latest addition is again courtesy of Steve and BBCE. I didn't get any of the first 62 cards in the set from BBCE and now the last two have both come from Steve and the gang there. Thanks to him for a great deal on a very nice looking card. I was hoping to get this card in only a 7 as I didn't want to spend 8 money on a common card, but he gave me a deal I couldn't pass up. Anyway, here is my latest card. The first post of the thread also has this card updated so that there are only two slots left blank now (#13 David Gambee and #23 Sam Jones). Thanks for looking.
    image
    Steve
  • mikelowell25mikelowell25 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭
    Awesome steve!! I'm pretty much in the same boat as you regarding my 57 basketball set as you are with your 61; while my set is complete, i still need to upgrade two of my 6's to 7's to have the set in psa 7 or better: got one card closer (ie from three down to two) when I picked up the Gola in a 7 last week; was the underbidder on the cliftonimageso I still need that one and the gallatin. Am in no huge rush though and hope you get those last two quick!!image

  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭✭
    Congrats.

    When u c any 61 fleer that has nice centering awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭
    Congrats Steve, that's a great looking card!
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭
    WTG Steve. Nice looking card. Good luck on the remaining two.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • jmaciujmaciu Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭
    Great job Steve!! The finish line is in site!
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    David, Dan, Doug, John and Jay, thanks for the encouragement! I have another big update coming. Card is on its way now. Hopefully I will have it in hand by the weekend and have scans up too!
    Steve
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    Card finally arrived the other day and I just had time to scan it in. Picked up this nice Gambee. It looks a little tall and I wish the T/B centering was a little better, but it's got really strong corners and since he's sort of just a regular common I didn't feel like waiting anymore to pull the trigger on getting the card to fill the set. I had seen the 7 on the same card on 4SC for a while but that one had a distracting print line through the card so I thought this one looked cleaner. I will be more picky with the last card, Sam Jones, because I want a really nice card to finish off the set. Plus that is a HOF RC of a top 50 player. Hopefully I can get that card (and the remaining two 6 to 7 upgrades) before the end of the year. Thanks again for looking.
    image
    Steve
  • belzbelz Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭
    Awesome Steve!!!
    "Wots Uh The Deal" by Pink Floyd
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congrats! It will be an incredible feeling of accomplishment when you get the last one.
  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭
    It's awesome that you're so close, congrats!
  • JBrulesJBrules Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congrats! The ultra-marathon is coming to an end soon.
  • mknezmknez Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭
    Sweet!

    ------
    stupid print dots

  • jmaciujmaciu Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭
    Steve, you are reaching for the finish line now!! Congrats.
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    Steven, Dan and John--Thanks for the nice posts. It's nice being able to share my collection with other guys who appreciate it. I love following your collections on here too.

    LarkinCollector and JBrules--Thanks, it is bittersweet getting to the end. Once this is done I guess my next focus will be completing my 1986 Fleer set that I think I have started, stopped and started over 10 times.

    Mike-Great to have you back on the boards!

    BTW--I realized my newest addition was pictured in my post but not in the original post of the thread along with the rest of the set. I goofed up something on Photobucket. It is now with the rest of the set and the only hole left is a Sam Jones sized one.
    Steve
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks to everyone who has followed along and given me encouragement with my set over the past year. My first post is somewhere on the interweb and it was a post asking for grading opinions on some 1961 Fleer cards (including the Arizin 7 that is in the set now and the West IA 6 that is also currently in the set). A big mailday for me this Monday as the final card needed to complete my set arrived. Don't worry, you aren't done with my posts yet as I still have two PSA 6 cards to upgrade to 7 or up in the set. That being said, I am stoked to be complete with my first registry set.

    Here is the card that completed the set. I have been watching this card for months and didn't really want to pay for it in an 8. But I rationalized it as being a sound decision to splurge and buy in an 8 because: 1) Sam Jones is a HOF, Top 50 NBA player and this is his RC, 2) Factoring in the 10% eBay bucks promo, I got it for VCP average and I think this is a pretty good 8 and 3) I just wanted to finish the darn setimage

    The complete scan of the complete set can be seen on the first/original post. Thanks for looking.
    image
    Steve
  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭
    Congrats! What a milestone!

    It is fair to say I will never finish a registry set this size. The only one I'm working on is the Yaz master and I'll never finish that.

    Congrats again!
  • baz518baz518 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭✭
    Congrats!! Awesome job and very nice looking set. I've always wanted to do the 61 or 86 Fleer sets... and still plan to down the road. Thanks for sharing.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Congrats Steve!
  • DavisDavis Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Very impressive! Congrats on the completion!
  • vintagefunvintagefun Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭
    HUGE CONGRATS STEVE!!!
    52-90 All Sports, Mostly Topps, Mostly HOF, and some assorted wax.
  • JBrulesJBrules Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congrats Steve. That is a huge accomplishment. I have started a 70 Topps basketball set and have only made it about 35% of the way. I cannot see the set ever being finished. I get easily distracted and put money towards other things. Not sure if I should stick with it or just give it up. Any ups and downs on your set along the way?
  • ssdawg77ssdawg77 Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congratulations on the completion.
  • LargentcollectorLargentcollector Posts: 760 ✭✭✭
    Wow! Your set looks great!

    I would like to thank Steve for this post as I started to collect this set also. I've been at it for a couple of months now and having a blast. Steve has been so kind to help me along and answer all my questions, send cards my way, message me when a card I'm looking for comes available. He also helps determining good value or not. He has also become a good collecting friend and we talk regularly. Thanks Steve and congratulations on a well built set!

    Tim

    My new website www.lowgradegems.com


    Tim
  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭✭
    Again

    I offer a well deserved congrats.

    Very tough set and ur is top notch !!!!!!!!!!
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • baseballfanbaseballfan Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭
    Very nice. Congrats
    Fred

    collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.

    looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started

  • jmaciujmaciu Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭
    Congrats Steve. You put together a beautiful set, Steve. Your excitement is contageous.
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