Delete

Guru

Pretty stupid that a guy can't honestly post something here without trolls picking it apart.

vintagefun

Font color and background are quite similar. I was interested but had to stop reading after 3 sentences due to eye strain.

I'd suggest more of a contrast.

Jim

Guru

<< <i>Font color and background are quite similar. I was interested but had to stop reading after 3 sentences due to eye strain.

I'd suggest more of a contrast.

Jim >>



Thx Jim, but I was going more for the content of the article. Thanks though for feedback on the other stuff.

Dpeck100

Are you suggesting that the modern market is going to cause the entire market to crash?

Guru

<< <i>Are you suggesting that the modern market is going to cause the entire market to crash? >>



I'm suggesting that if manufacturers don't pay attention to more low end, the masses, that there could potentially be a bust. If you look at what they are doing with the modern market, you can see it. Talk to shop owners...they'll tell you the same thing.

There is a myriad of reasons that I think there could be a bust coming. This is just one of them.

Dpeck100

<< <i>

<< <i>Are you suggesting that the modern market is going to cause the entire market to crash? >>



I'm suggesting that if manufacturers don't pay attention to more low end, the masses, that there could potentially be a bust. If you look at what they are doing with the modern market, you can see it. Talk to shop owners...they'll tell you the same thing.

There is a myriad of reasons that I think there could be a bust coming. This is just one of them. >>




Are you talking vintage too and cards in general?

Guru

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Are you suggesting that the modern market is going to cause the entire market to crash? >>



I'm suggesting that if manufacturers don't pay attention to more low end, the masses, that there could potentially be a bust. If you look at what they are doing with the modern market, you can see it. Talk to shop owners...they'll tell you the same thing.

There is a myriad of reasons that I think there could be a bust coming. This is just one of them. >>




Are you taking vintage too and cards in general? >>



I didn't cover this in the post because it was getting too long, but if anything I think vintage will go up in value. I think people will get sick and tired of the other stuff and start falling back on old reliable...vintage. Vintage has always weathered the storms, IMO.

vintagefun

I will say, I view modern cards like high priced scratchers. I lose money on almost every box I rip. I've got a slew of nobody autos and a bunch of Ryan Zimmerman jerseys, and the like. But I know going in what to expect, so I stick to D&A deals for pure luck hunts, and rip Heritage because I at least enjoy the base cards.

The lack of quality hits though is waning my interest, but I'm not sure what the answer would be. Part of me says bring down cost and price and let quality control suffer a bit, making condition the rarity. I dunno.

dtkk49a

I think real issue is there are just not enough players out there that the average collector wants to collect. Now that Jeter is retired, who is the most collected active baseball player? What about basketball? Hockey? I think football has some of the most collectible players right now, but who is being collected by everyone??

lawnmowerman

Great movie. Clooney was superb!

Guru

So I had someone comment on the actual blog and for some reason the website isn't allowing it to be posted. So in the off chance that it's someone here...a few things.

Thanks for commenting on the design, but I'm not looking for what you think about my blog regarding look, etc. But thank you for your comment regarding it.

The reason I didn't post a bunch of links, etc. is because I could get sued if I put anything negative on there. You don't have to believe me, but unfortunately I have had blogs in the past and had to learn some hard lessons through those other experiences. Trust me...companies are watching and people take notice, even if you think they're not.

Again, it's a personal blog so there's not going to be a ton of scientific evidence, because it's my opinion, like most blogs.

Take these things in consideration. I'm just curious about a conversation regarding what people think about the topic...not the design, not my grammar, or anything else.

otwcards

If you don't want critique, don't ask what others think. You can't ask for feedback and then expect to be able to censor the parts that you don't want to hear.

I learned a long time ago, that if you have an opinion and want to share it, that's fine, just don't cry when not everyone agrees with it. Too many on these boards need to thicken their skin or find another sandbox.

I'm not sure what the end-game is, but I'm betting it doesn't end as you hoped.

Guru

<< <i>If you don't want critique, don't ask what others think. You can't ask for feedback and then expect to be able to censor the parts that you don't want to hear.

I learned a long time ago, that if you have an opinion and want to share it, that's fine, just don't cry when not everyone agrees with it. Too many on these boards need to thicken their skin or find another sandbox.

I'm not sure what the end-game is, but I'm betting it doesn't end as you hoped. >>



I have pretty thick skin. This goes back to the fact that people can't stay on topic in this place to save their life. I didn't ask about design concerns, font, grammar, etc. I asked about the content. I don't mind if people don't agree. In fact, I welcome that because it makes for good conversation.

I'm not crying over critique. I could care less what anyone thinks about the design. I care about the content. My response was to educate why I shared my opinion the way I did. I've blogged for over a decade now and have found that most people don't really understand that you can't post links without permission or name names of major companies without asking first.

otwcards

What you did ask was for people to visit your blog. You didn't post the question to the board. You're fishing for traffic and upset that you aren't getting the back-patting that you want. Get over it.

Guru

<< <i>What you did ask was for people to visit your blog. You didn't post the question to the board. You're fishing for traffic and upset that you aren't getting the back-patting that you want. Get over it. >>



I'm not looking for traffic. I get enough traffic on my other blog. I write this one for fun. Glad to know you know exactly what I'm thinking. I seriously wanted to start a discussion and see what people thought, but that obviously isn't going to happen here.

RubberBiskit

Your site is lame. Your blogs are stupid. Your threads are always about drama.
Let me know when you're going to have an O/T: Divorce thread

dtkk49a

This thread is a perfect example of why many people no longer come to this website. Too many posts have nothing to do with the original subject. It's the same people over and over.

swartz1

+1

And from some longer members, hey everyone look at me!

royalbrett

Since someone mentioned that your article is about the card market crashing, I say let it crash. I don't collect for money, I collect for the fun of it. Actually, I wish it would crash, then I could afford more items that I want.

Dpeck100

I got this from a Motley Fool article.

"baseball card industry sales had dropped from $1.5 billion in 1992 down to $200 million by 2008, where it reportedly still sat as of April 2012."

I am not really certain how much worse it can get for new card sales. The younger generation has already been priced out of the market and in many cases have navigated to cards like Pokemon and Magic The Gathering. In the metro Orlando, FL area where I live baseball is just not anywhere near as popular with the younger generation. They are more interested in soccer, lacrosse, wrestling (real), and other more trendy sports.

This prefect storm that you see coming has already arrived taking an industry down 87% from its peak. People tend to forget that my generation (35) was looking to hit the lottery too. A $0.50 pack of 1985 Topps might have yielded a $15 Dwight Gooden rookie. We were all aware of the values and in many cases that is what drove consumption. Just look at the 1989 Hoops product. Once the David Robinson card came along many started pouring funds into basketball who had never collected it. I can remember to this day pulling one out of a pack and dealer offering me money on the spot. The feeling of turning $.50 into $20 was way more appealing then putting the set together.

Once trading cards became known as something of value that in theory could appreciate the hobby changed for ever. That is not a bad thing. I personally think it helps fuel the market. It is no different today when someone rips an older product then a new one. Graded cards from the older products are just like the new insert cards. The population totals are meant to differentiate the same cards and drive the value.

Perhaps it can get worse from here but as long as some fresh stars come along to drive the lottery ticket philosophy I think cards will continue to be okay.

MULLINS5

<< <i>I got this from a Motley Fool article.

"baseball card industry sales had dropped from $1.5 billion in 1992 down to $200 million by 2008, where it reportedly still sat as of April 2012."

I am not really certain how much worse it can get for new card sales. The younger generation has already been priced out of the market and in many cases have navigated to cards like Pokemon and Magic The Gathering. In the metro Orlando, FL area where I live baseball is just not anywhere near as popular with the younger generation. They are more interested in soccer, lacrosse, wrestling (real), and other more trendy sports.

This prefect storm that you see coming has already arrived taking an industry down 87% from its peak. People tend to forget that my generation (35) was looking to hit the lottery too. A $0.50 pack of 1985 Topps might have yielded a $15 Dwight Gooden rookie. We were all aware of the values and in many cases that is what drove consumption. Just look at the 1989 Hoops product. Once the David Robinson card came along many started pouring funds into basketball who had never collected it. I can remember to this day pulling one out of a pack and dealer offering me money on the spot. The feeling of turning $.50 into $20 was way more appealing then putting the set together.

Once trading cards became known as something of value that in theory could appreciate the hobby changed for ever. That is not a bad thing. I personally think it helps fuel the market. It is no different today when someone rips an older product then a new one. Graded cards from the older products are just like the new insert cards. The population totals are meant to differentiate the same cards and drive the value.

Perhaps it can get worse from here but as long as some fresh stars come along to drive the lottery ticket philosophy I think cards will continue to be okay. >>




Man I remember buying a ton of Fleer Ultra looking for that Shaq rookie. I didn't even know who he was, but the hype (and value) of the card made me want it bad. Used to throw away almost all of the other cards from the packs. Remember, too, looking for that NNOF Thomas. Knowing what I know now, this poor kid never had a chance! Leetch rookies in 0.50 packs...Great times.

I was talking to a guy in my area who has two sons who play little league and they use their allowance to buy packs of baseball cards at walmart/target. They're trying to put a set together in binder sleeves. He's going to eBay to buy some of the cards they need and then he's resealing them in packs to give as stocking stuffers. I really liked that idea So, there's still people out there who collect old school style.

PaulMaul

I'm glad I never was even exposed to all the insert/relic crap. I stopped collecting in 1982 and when I started up again in 2002 I stuck strictly to vintage. Sometimes I look at the checklists for these new sets and I don't even understand them.

dennis07

I read your blog and thought it was well thought out and a worthwhile editorial to read. I stepped away from the modern market in 1991 so that market is not something
I follow closely. I didn't see your post as "fishing for traffic" but as you stated a starting point for a discussion on the state of the current market.
Hang in there and ignore the naysayers.

otwcards

<< <i>I'm glad I never was even exposed to all the insert/relic crap. I stopped collecting in 1982 and when I started up again in 2002 I stuck strictly to vintage. Sometimes I look at the checklists for these new sets and I don't even understand them. >>



Take a look at Topps Tek or Topps Moments and Milestones to see how some issues where taken to extremes. And that isn't even counting the variations of most cards today (colored borders, varying refractor levels, differecnt serial number thresholds, different colored ink for autographs, pose variations, etc). And some where hating it or loving it when '94 Pinnacle had the Artist Proof and Museum Collection as parallels to the base issue.

As to the original point, asked and answered many years ago...

MULLINS5

<< <i>Since someone mentioned that your article is about the card market crashing, I say let it crash. I don't collect for money, I collect for the fun of it. Actually, I wish it would crash, then I could afford more items that I want. >>



I agree with you except I wouldn't want it to crash. A lot of good people out there with serious money (wisely) invested in their collection.

MULLINS5

<< <i>

<< <i>If you don't want critique, don't ask what others think. You can't ask for feedback and then expect to be able to censor the parts that you don't want to hear.

I learned a long time ago, that if you have an opinion and want to share it, that's fine, just don't cry when not everyone agrees with it. Too many on these boards need to thicken their skin or find another sandbox.

I'm not sure what the end-game is, but I'm betting it doesn't end as you hoped. >>



I have pretty thick skin. This goes back to the fact that people can't stay on topic in this place to save their life. I didn't ask about design concerns, font, grammar, etc. I asked about the content. I don't mind if people don't agree. In fact, I welcome that because it makes for good conversation.

I'm not crying over critique. I could care less what anyone thinks about the design. I care about the content. My response was to educate why I shared my opinion the way I did. I've blogged for over a decade now and have found that most people don't really understand that you can't post links without permission or name names of major companies without asking first. >>



If there's one thing I've learned about otwcards it's that he's almost always right.

I've said quite a few dumb things and he's called me out on it. Didn't want to hear it at the time, but he was right.

His comments sting, but they're spot-on.

He's also a wealth of knowledge. Guy probably knows more about cards than most here.

itzagoner

one thing i've learned is that it's important to know how to do more than one thing.

PLEHR

To the OP: I was very interested in reading your take on the modern hobby. But as other have stated I bailed about the third sentence in because it was so hard to read with the font being such a similar color to the background. I realize from your comments that this isn't what you care about or want to hear but you did ask for feedback. Take care.

Stone193

I don't care for confrontation - tend to run from it.

We could do the obvious.

We can ask the head mod to enforce the rules. We can all agree to have all threads that are OT removed and/or have them enforce a rule that any thread "not" collectible related - also specifically to sports, be removed and the person responsible for the post be banned.

But, I think that would be a bit harsh and make our forum a bit less personal. We're tied by a little more than just collectibles.

Now, I can live without the drama and the snide remarks - that might be worthy of enforcement?

Stone193

To the OP/Chris.

I saw your post but didn't have the time to read your blog and respond.

Did read it.

Too complicated a topic for me to have a meaningful POV - one would really need a lot of data IMO.

Having been collecting since 1988 straight thru to now?

One important change since the early days - let's say 1950s.

They were, e.g., referred to as "Trading Cards" - more than a subtle distinction with the advent of the "price guide." I traded based on team and player. If someone was trying to complete a team set, they had no problem trading a star (they didn't need) for a common or 2 to finish off the set. That would not happen today.

Now, what complicates that simple scenario is the registry and graded cards as such, since many would pay big money for a common just to complete a set in all 9s e.g., whether registry or not?

Just a point. I have to admit, as much as I know from collecting experience, what I know for sure? I know squat. There's just so much out there.

DanBessette

<< <i>I can live without the drama and the snide remarks - that might be worthy of enforcement? >>



I agree. And that's coming from somebody who has been pretty snide himself lately. I think many of us have not been keeping with the holiday spirit lately. Maybe that's because of stress, but that's no real excuse. To jab somebody about their marriage, for instance, is really low. I for one am hoping we can all get back to sharing our collecting successes and congratulating others on theirs, asking interesting questions and educating each other about this hobby we all love. Though I'm sure I won't be perfect, I will do my best to do my part. This will be my only post in this thread.

TNP777

<< <i>Your site is lame. Your blogs are stupid. Your threads are always about drama.
Let me know when you're going to have an O/T: Divorce thread >>

You may very well be someone I know under a different username. Whoever you are, this was completely uncalled for.

perkdog

The CU forums are as stable as the middle east, there has always been trolls, instigators, A-Holes and plenty of people trying to pump up their auctions or sales by "inocently" posting stuff for the readers here and there always will be those that come and go but the end result has and always will be the same, the core bunch of good people here will endure and continue to make this the best sports talk/card forum on the net.

Cheers to all

Downtown1974

Well said, Paul.