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Why is it assumed that a dealer should sell at market price?
MGLICKER
Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
Looking at some online listings this morning, I see a bunch of lame duck coins on Ebay.
Coins that most likely have the seller buried. Better modern gold commems for example.
I recall as well dropping in at the local brick and mortar when silver was in the low $20's. I needed 3 eagles. Dealer said that he was high as he bought a monster box when the metal was significantly higher. Made sense to me and I paid $30 each for the three coins. Had I needed quantity I would have bought elsewhere.
Point is, sellers may recognize the market revaluation, but have no interest is accepting the lower price.
Does not make them hucksters or phisherman, just sellers who follow their own market logic, wise or not.
Coins that most likely have the seller buried. Better modern gold commems for example.
I recall as well dropping in at the local brick and mortar when silver was in the low $20's. I needed 3 eagles. Dealer said that he was high as he bought a monster box when the metal was significantly higher. Made sense to me and I paid $30 each for the three coins. Had I needed quantity I would have bought elsewhere.
Point is, sellers may recognize the market revaluation, but have no interest is accepting the lower price.
Does not make them hucksters or phisherman, just sellers who follow their own market logic, wise or not.
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Hope they like them when their out of pre-school followed by_______.
<< <i>If everyone sold at market price it would never change. >>
It could fall.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>The guy that holds will be holding till they die and then the kids or fam will sell at a loss. >>
Not always true.
<< <i>
<< <i>The guy that holds will be holding till they die and then the kids or fam will sell at a loss. >>
Not always true. >>
I guess your right the kids or fam that rec it will have no $$ in it so it's all free $$ to them....
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The guy that holds will be holding till they die and then the kids or fam will sell at a loss. >>
Not always true. >>
I guess your right the kids or fam that rec it will have no $$ in it so it's all free $$ to them....
Bingo.....
If the seller is not willing to sell at the buyers price, then there is no sale - and the seller keeps their merchandise.
In that case, they are not sellers, but preservers of inventory.
Eventually if they want to replace stale inventory with fresh material to become sellers again, they will have to accept a lower price to convert their inventory into cash and hopefully make a better investment in fresh inventory.
Otherwise, they simply go out of business with a bunch of product on their shelves.
<< <i>The value of any item is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller in an arms length transaction.
If the seller is not willing to sell at the buyers price, then there is no sale - and the seller keeps their merchandise.
In that case, they are not sellers, but preservers of inventory.
Eventually if they want to replace stale inventory with fresh material to become sellers again, they will have to accept a lower price to convert their inventory into cash and hopefully make a better investment in fresh inventory.
Otherwise, they simply go out of business with a bunch of product on their shelves. >>
You are correct if the dealer takes that position on most or all of his merchandise. That rarely occurs as generally only certain items are taken off the shelf at a time.
<< <i>Looking at some online listings this morning, I see a bunch of lame duck coins on Ebay.
Coins that most likely have the seller buried. Better modern gold commems for example.
I recall as well dropping in at the local brick and mortar when silver was in the low $20's. I needed 3 eagles. Dealer said that he was high as he bought a monster box when the metal was significantly higher. Made sense to me and I paid $30 each for the three coins. Had I needed quantity I would have bought elsewhere.
Point is, sellers may recognize the market revaluation, but have no interest is accepting the lower price.
Does not make them hucksters or phisherman, just sellers who follow their own market logic, wise or not. >>
Dealer "said" he paid x amount, who knows what he paid? If you're buried in "merch" type stuff sell it and move along. "Great" pieces are more likely to rebound.
Market price IMHO is whatever the seller offers me at any given moment. In some retail avenues, different neighborhoods have different markets - even in the same city. The same item in a poor neighborhood occasionally can sell for twice as much in a wealthy area of town. I find the dealers in nice places are asking more than the guys in other spots. Even my supermarkets are different. The one a mile south will often have certain organic items on sale because most of their patrons don't buy organic. Meanwhile, the one a mile northeast of me is often sold out in organics. If you drive around you may find your coin dealers have similar circumstance.
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Did not matter whether I trusted him or not (though I do). I was willing to pay the extra $12 for 3 the coins. Not worth driving around town to find a better deal.
if a dealer is selling or a customer buying and they are concerned about the falling price there is a simple solution that probably doesn't make sense -- average things out and don't panic, which translates into buying more. if you look at it from the buyers side, past the fact that I feel Glicker gave away money by paying that premium, take an example of a guy who has 100 ounces that he bought at $30. as long as he doesn't sell he hasn't lost anything, so if he buys 100 ounces more at $20 he now has 200 ounces at $25. that's more manageable.
it works the same way for that dealer. if he sees himself buried in that Monster Box the first thing he should do is lower his price so he can sell some product. then he can buy at the new, lower price and average out like the customer should be. we have plenty of buyers who have Silver they bought at $5 an ounce and Silver they bought at $30 an ounce and when the price goes down my boss gets on the phone and buys to head off the loss on what we already have. it might sound wrong but it works for my boss and the guys who invest in Silver.
if you can't do those things you probably don't have the balls it takes to operate in these kinds of markets.
personally, it makes me way too nervous(even though I understand the mechanics) and I have no bullion, Silver or Gold.
<< <i>"""There are many variables. If you need 3 eagles today, and can't wait for shipping, then you are at the mercy of the seller's asking price. If you are able to wait and negotiate, then why pay for their misfortune? It's not your fault they are taking a loss. And it may very well be a line they use to get more premiums, who knows."""
Did not matter whether I trusted him or not (though I do). I was willing to pay the extra $12 for 3 the coins. Not worth driving around town to find a better deal. >>
Right on with this statement...I still laugh at my Uncle who will drive 25 miles to save 5 cents a gallon on gas. Not to mention his time should have some value also.
<< <i>Dealer said that he was high as he bought a monster box when the metal was significantly higher.
if a dealer is selling or a customer buying and they are concerned about the falling price there is a simple solution that probably doesn't make sense -- average things out and don't panic, which translates into buying more. if you look at it from the buyers side, past the fact that I feel Glicker gave away money by paying that premium, take an example of a guy who has 100 ounces that he bought at $30. as long as he doesn't sell he hasn't lost anything, so if he buys 100 ounces more at $20 he now has 200 ounces at $25. that's more manageable.
it works the same way for that dealer. if he sees himself buried in that Monster Box the first thing he should do is lower his price so he can sell some product. then he can buy at the new, lower price and average out like the customer should be. we have plenty of buyers who have Silver they bought at $5 an ounce and Silver they bought at $30 an ounce and when the price goes down my boss gets on the phone and buys to head off the loss on what we already have. it might sound wrong but it works for my boss and the guys who invest in Silver.
if you can't do those things you probably don't have the balls it takes to operate in these kinds of markets.
personally, it makes me way too nervous(even though I understand the mechanics) and I have no bullion, Silver or Gold. >>
Sounds like that dealer overbought. He bought a monster box when he should have bought just a few rolls. It's better to have more than you need than to need more than you have, but not always!
upon re-reading the OP's post I think the problem is that the dealer shouldn't smoke marijuana before he considers buying bullion.
<< <i>Sounds like that dealer overbought.
upon re-reading the OP's post I think the problem is that the dealer shouldn't smoke marijuana before he considers buying bullion.
lmao
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds like that dealer overbought.
upon re-reading the OP's post I think the problem is that the dealer shouldn't smoke marijuana before he considers buying bullion.
lmao >>
x 2
that is funny.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>But if he had bought them when silver was $16/oz and it had gone to $40, do you think he would have sold them to you at his mark use from $16. I highly doubt it. >>
Does not matter. I needed the coins and did not mind paying a couple of extra bucks. He and I have done substantial business on both the buy and sell side. We have negotiated intensely a few times.........but not over a few bucks.
<< <i>Looking at some online listings this morning, I see a bunch of lame duck coins on Ebay.
Coins that most likely have the seller buried. Better modern gold commems for example.
I recall as well dropping in at the local brick and mortar when silver was in the low $20's. I needed 3 eagles. Dealer said that he was high as he bought a monster box when the metal was significantly higher. Made sense to me and I paid $30 each for the three coins. Had I needed quantity I would have bought elsewhere.
Point is, sellers may recognize the market revaluation, but have no interest is accepting the lower price.
Does not make them hucksters or phisherman, just sellers who follow their own market logic, wise or not. >>
This is every seller of bullion on Ebay. I guess the thrill of buying bullion, half naked in your underwear while laying in bed surfing the internet on you IPAD is worth the the higher prices. I have done that many times. I find that when I go to sell, buyers never want my bullion at anything except the closest to market prices. After losing thousands of dollars, the thrill of bullion sort of wears off.
Tyler
<< <i>Dealer said that he was high as he bought a monster box when the metal was significantly higher.
if a dealer is selling or a customer buying and they are concerned about the falling price there is a simple solution that probably doesn't make sense -- average things out and don't panic, which translates into buying more. if you look at it from the buyers side, past the fact that I feel Glicker gave away money by paying that premium, take an example of a guy who has 100 ounces that he bought at $30. as long as he doesn't sell he hasn't lost anything, so if he buys 100 ounces more at $20 he now has 200 ounces at $25. that's more manageable.
it works the same way for that dealer. if he sees himself buried in that Monster Box the first thing he should do is lower his price so he can sell some product. then he can buy at the new, lower price and average out like the customer should be. we have plenty of buyers who have Silver they bought at $5 an ounce and Silver they bought at $30 an ounce and when the price goes down my boss gets on the phone and buys to head off the loss on what we already have. it might sound wrong but it works for my boss and the guys who invest in Silver.
if you can't do those things you probably don't have the balls it takes to operate in these kinds of markets.
personally, it makes me way too nervous(even though I understand the mechanics) and I have no bullion, Silver or Gold. >>
Problem with this strategy is that it is backward looking and if prices are falling all one does is lose money albeit just less money lost via each transaction. The average loss per unit is less but the absolute loss is more.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>Problem with this strategy is that it is backward looking and if prices are falling all one does is lose money albeit just less money lost via each transaction. The average loss per unit is less but the absolute loss is more. >>
Logic has little quarter in this debate.
Dealer buys Eagles at say $25 each. He plans to sell them at $28, by the time they arrive, silver has dropped $4 and he can only get $24 a coin.
Perhaps selling them at the reduced market price is the wise move, but plenty of folks in the business (a few quite successful) I may add, need to percolate on the price move for a bit before dropping the price.
I am not talking primary market makers like Apmex, but small independents.
Dealer buys Eagles at say $25 each. He plans to sell them at $28, by the time they arrive, silver has dropped $4 and he can only get $24 a coin.
consider that it moves up $4 --- Dealer buys Eagles at say $25 each. He plans to sell them at $28, by the time they arrive, silver has risen $4 so now he can get $32 a coin.
<< <i>Point is, sellers may recognize the market revaluation, but have no interest is accepting the lower price. >>
<< <i>Does not make them hucksters or phisherman, just sellers who follow their own market logic, wise or not. >>
By you buying Eagles at the price you did, it buoyed the dealers confidence that he knows what he's doing.
At least for the short term. He may sit on the rest for eternity.
If I needed/wanted just the three like you, I'd have bought them also.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
<< <i>The value of any item is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller in an arms length transaction.
If the seller is not willing to sell at the buyers price, then there is no sale - and the seller keeps their merchandise.
In that case, they are not sellers, but preservers of inventory.
Eventually if they want to replace stale inventory with fresh material to become sellers again, they will have to accept a lower price to convert their inventory into cash and hopefully make a better investment in fresh inventory.
Otherwise, they simply go out of business with a bunch of product on their shelves. >>
What if this particular seller dealer has no cash flow problem? Perhaps this particular dealer would rather get rid of his useless dollars and put them in something he feels is more solid. I could still see myself spending barber half's for a loaf of bread if the world continues on it's downward spiral.
<< <i>Looking at some online listings this morning, I see a bunch of lame duck coins on Ebay.
Coins that most likely have the seller buried. Better modern gold commems for example.
I recall as well dropping in at the local brick and mortar when silver was in the low $20's. I needed 3 eagles. Dealer said that he was high as he bought a monster box when the metal was significantly higher. Made sense to me and I paid $30 each for the three coins. Had I needed quantity I would have bought elsewhere.
Point is, sellers may recognize the market revaluation, but have no interest is accepting the lower price.
Does not make them hucksters or phisherman, just sellers who follow their own market logic, wise or not. >>
Not wise, because the point also is most buyers do have an interest in accepting a lower price.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Naturally, the situation would be somewhat different if we were talking about a truly rare coin. First, because the value is not as clearly defined. Second, because it would be harder for someone to undercut my price. And third, because it might be difficult or impossible to replace the coin for a bit less.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
its not about selling at market price, averaging, etc... you just hedge!
An offset hedge is designed to remove the basis price risk of the physical operation by offsetting it with an equal and opposite sale or purchase of a futures contract on the Exchange. Any risk of price volatility that arises from the physical transaction is thereby eliminated.
<< <i>I would advise you all not to be bullion dealers...
its not about selling at market price, averaging, etc... you just hedge!
An offset hedge is designed to remove the basis price risk of the physical operation by offsetting it with an equal and opposite sale or purchase of a futures contract on the Exchange. Any risk of price volatility that arises from the physical transaction is thereby eliminated. >>
Yes but this is a small dealer and a silver hedge on a relatively small lot probably would not be effective.
I should have left the discussion with less available coins such as the better date gold commems. The discussion veered to a fungible and easily replenished eagle.
BTW....I will sell the 3 at cost!!!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>What did the OP sell the three 30.00 eagles for? >>
OP gave them out as birthday gifts!!!
So, if I have a buyer that will pay X and I get them for Y as long as Y is less then X, I'm good and they are happy also! The amount is not relevant really is this case.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I have about 15 carburetors in stock. Some I bought for $5, some for $20, a couple $60, roughly.
When a given carb is sold, it's price is based on what it is worth to the buyer and me at that time. What happened in the past is in the past, and does not affect the here and now. I can choose to sell it or keep it.
At the end of the year, I paid $XXXXXX for stuff and sold it for $YYYYYY. The difference is gross profit or loss.
I have bought out 37 dealers since I started in 1982. A few were tired, but most "Clung" to their stuff, asking moon money, not selling enough to make it, until their business collapsed.
My sister owned a gaming store, exotic chess sets, Dungeons and Dragons, War Games, etc. In her "dead" inventory, was the remains of 6 dealers who also followed the moon money and collapse model. This was excess inventory that did not fit her selling model, but came along with the total buyout package.
I set her up on ebay, and we moved a lot of dead inventory for some amount of $$. Better than just sitting and taking up space. When she purchased it, the "out of model" inventory, in her mind, was purchased at Zero $$, so anything that was made was pure profit.
6 years ago, where she and her husband died tragically, they did not even have a will. I had to go in, 1500 miles away, understand how the store was running, work through probate, deal with the 18 employees, a house crammed with stuff, down to the milk in the refrigerator and the clothes beside the washing machine, etc. The accountant showed me all the books, cost of goods, monthly expenses, payroll, on and on.
The COG was somewhat immaterial. I sold all the active inventory for 50% of cost, and tossed in the assets of the store (shelving, display cases, etc.) to 2 of the employees who bought the entire operation. Sold all the dead inventory to another employee who was setting up his own ebay store. Wished all of them in their new businesses.
dealers who are selling 1-2-3 ASE's at a time or maybe a roll at a time don't "hedge" or worry about "futures contracts" or the stock market, that's laughable.