How will history remember Hank Aaron?
MGLICKER
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in Sports Talk
Will the Barry Bond's taint, alter his legend?
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<< <i>Will the Barry Bond's taint, alter his legend? >>
I would think only improve Aaron's legacy.
Would be nice to have an undisputed home run king.
<< <i>Maybe alter would have been a better word than taint.
Would be nice to have an undisputed home run king. >>
There are some in America who still insist Babe Ruth holds the record.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Paterno was another sports legend that I had respected.
Not a good couple of years.
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<< <i>Maybe alter would have been a better word than taint.
Would be nice to have an undisputed home run king. >>
There are some in America who still insist Babe Ruth holds the record.
Mark >>
I don't think too many Americans really think Babe Ruth still holds the record. Not really.
That does not make much sense.
As far as true baseball fans who love the history of the game I couldnt imagine any of them thinking Ruth has the HR record, Im talking like zero.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
By record, Bonds is the king but may never see the hall of fame.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
<< <i>I dont think too many people really care anymore, Baseball has lost its luster in my opinion. Dont get me wrong I think people still love baseball but are not that passionate about the games history as they were years ago.
As far as true baseball fans who love the history of the game I couldnt imagine any of them thinking Ruth has the HR record, Im talking like zero. >>
+1 to all of this.
To answer the OP, you just need to ask what people think of Aaron now, since he is part of history at this point. To me, he seems like a nice guy.
<< <i>To me, he seems like a nice guy. >>
Perhaps. At 80 I will write off his bigotry to senility. May as well give the old man the benefit of the doubt.
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<< <i>To me, he seems like a nice guy. >>
Perhaps. At 80 I will write off his bigotry to senility. May as well give the old man the benefit of the doubt. >>
Ha. Can you imagine the outcry if say John McCain made the same remarks?
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
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<< <i>To me, he seems like a nice guy. >>
Perhaps. At 80 I will write off his bigotry to senility. May as well give the old man the benefit of the doubt. >>
Ha. Can you imagine the outcry if say John McCain made the same remarks? >>
John McCain didn't endure vile behavior and insults that Aaron did, based solely and only because of skin color.
Not saying I agree with Aaron's opinions, but you (and any of us) certainly aren't qualified to judge him, that much is for certain.
He is popular now, but people forget the massive amount of hate mail he was getting while approaching Ruth. He was also getting death threats on a regular basis.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>He's a racist so I'm not a big fan.
By record, Bonds is the king but may never see the hall of fame. >>
Really? You truly think he's a "racist?" We each are entitled to their own opinion but I strongly disagree.
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<< <i>To me, he seems like a nice guy. >>
Perhaps. At 80 I will write off his bigotry to senility. May as well give the old man the benefit of the doubt. >>
Ha. Can you imagine the outcry if say John McCain made the same remarks? >>
John McCain didn't endure vile behavior and insults that Aaron did, based solely and only because of skin color.
Not saying I agree with Aaron's opinions, but you (and any of us) certainly aren't qualified to judge him, that much is for certain.
He is popular now, but people forget the massive amount of hate mail he was getting while approaching Ruth. He was also getting death threats on a regular basis. >>
Yup. Well said Grote.
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<< <i>Maybe alter would have been a better word than taint.
Would be nice to have an undisputed home run king. >>
There are some in America who still insist Babe Ruth holds the record.
Mark >>
Remember how some thought Roger Maris wasn't really the single season champ because he got an extra eight games on the season? Well some thought the same at the time regarding Aaron because he did have about 4000 more at-bats.
What I can't get over is that the Peanuts strip in August 1973 did a series where Snoopy was only one home run away from tying Ruth's record before Hank Aaron (but in Snoopy's last at-bat Charlie Brown got picked off second)...and it just so happened Aaron did indeed finish the 1973 season one short of Ruth!
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
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<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe alter would have been a better word than taint.
Would be nice to have an undisputed home run king. >>
There are some in America who still insist Babe Ruth holds the record.
Mark >>
I don't think too many Americans really think Babe Ruth still holds the record. Not really.
That does not make much sense. >>
In a random poll you would be surprised.
For sure if you asked who was the home Run King Babe Ruth would get a lot off support.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Aaron was a hero of mine. Until he spouted off with a bunch of racial fables recently. >>
Pretty much the same feeling here. I too was a huge Hank Aaron fan until he started spewing the bull. All excuses for Aaron aside, there is no need for this race baiting nonsense to continue. White guilt is something that some higher ups promote so they can control African Americans politically to make money and stay in power. I think this is where Hank Aaron was sucked in to the game. It appears to me that some have an agenda to keep us divided along racial lines for their own benefit. It sure has made millionaires out of Sharpton, Jess Jackson, and the likes. It's sad.
Hank Aaron was a great player. He is considered the true homerun king by myself and most people I know due to Barry Bonds' steroid scandal. I just wish Hank Aaron would have been wise enough to not suggest anyone disagreeing with the president was racist. For most, it is a disagreement on politics, not racism.
In closing; I am so sick of the race bait games. Why don't we focus on the content of a person's character, and not skin color? That's what I do. I have made some great friends of all races this way.
Edited: To fix typo and shorten reply
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>Indeed, right from the start as far as I was concerned Obama (or BO as I like to call him; hey those are his initials right?
Lol. The conversation goes from Hank Aaron to politics. Come on. Do better than that.
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<< <i>Indeed, right from the start as far as I was concerned Obama (or BO as I like to call him; hey those are his initials right?
Lol. The conversation goes from Hank Aaron to politics. Come on. Do better than that. >>
Unfortunately, on this forum, that is too often the case.
Estil, I'm surprised to read your statement. Do you think the opposing party would be sympathetic to social programs such as disability?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Indeed, right from the start as far as I was concerned Obama (or BO as I like to call him; hey those are his initials right?
Lol. The conversation goes from Hank Aaron to politics. Come on. Do better than that. >>
Unfortunately, on this forum, that is too often the case.
Estil, I'm surprised to read your statement. Do you think the opposing party would be sympathetic to social programs such as disability? >>
The D vs R is nothing but a game to keep people arguing while they take more and more of our freedom and liberty from us. That is why the 2 party system was created. I gotta give it to them, their plan has worked like a charm as most Americans can't open their eyes to this game. It's time people wake up and realize none of them truly care about us 'little people'.
<< <i>John McCain didn't endure vile behavior and insults that Aaron did, based solely and only because of skin color. >>
So alter the context just a little bit and change it to McCain making awful comments about Vietnamese people. After all, he was a POW and tortured...
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>
<< <i>Indeed, right from the start as far as I was concerned Obama (or BO as I like to call him; hey those are his initials right?
Lol. The conversation goes from Hank Aaron to politics. Come on. Do better than that. >>
Wasn't my doing. And while Hank Aaron was indeed an outstanding player, true role model and ambassador to the game...but he was way, way out of line smearing R's as racist when the historical truth on that matter is completely the opposite. Sort of like how Ashley Judd is a wonderful actress, very deserving of being "Miss Wildcat", but I can definitely do without her political activism.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Indeed, right from the start as far as I was concerned Obama (or BO as I like to call him; hey those are his initials right?
Lol. The conversation goes from Hank Aaron to politics. Come on. Do better than that. >>
Wasn't my doing. And while Hank Aaron was indeed an outstanding player, true role model and ambassador to the game...but he was way, way out of line smearing R's as racist when the historical truth on that matter is completely the opposite. Sort of like how Ashley Judd is a wonderful actress, very deserving of being "Miss Wildcat", but I can definitely do without her political activism.
Yes, many do not realize the 'D' party was the original party of the KKK. That is a fact of history. Look it up. They only changed their public appearance once they realized it was advantageous to take over and control minorities like African Americans for political power and money. Hence, we have people like Sharpton, Jackson, and the likes today. It's all an illusion, folks. We are played by both sides.
<< <i>As for the original question... shall we talk about baseball now!? >>
Baseball cannot be considered in a vacuum, absent the swirling winds which surround the venues where the game is played.
No team sport is so connected to our outside lives as baseball.
Many wish that Hank Aaron would have kept his pedestal free of controversy. His comments cannot be neglected though when considering his place in history.
<< <i>As for the original question... shall we talk about baseball now!? >>
We are talking about baseball in relation to Hank Aaron and what HE brought up. So, if the man wants to bring up history, let's discuss it and reveal ALL that is behind it. It's not right for Hank Aaron to go around and blanket people with race baiting tactics, and then expect to never be held accountable for what he said. It's part of his legacy now. Sadly..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Atlanta Braves legend Hank Aaron is reportedly "upset" and "bitter" because he feels that readers -- not the reporter who wrote the story -- took his comments that implied those who opposed President Barack Obama's policies now wear "neckties and starched shirts" instead of KKK hoods out of context.
And the reporter who wrote the story is claiming Aaron should not have to apologize for something he never said because Aaron was talking about CEOs, American society, and corporate America and not referring to a political party.
Last week, in a story that appeared the day before Aaron was honored for the 40th anniversary of his 715th home run that broke Babe Ruth's record, USA Today's Bob Nightengale quoted Aaron in a story in which Aaron expressed disappointment that there is still racism in President Barack Obama's America.
In the story, Nightengale quoted Aaron as saying, "Sure, this country has a black president, but when you look at a black president, President Obama is left with his foot stuck in the mud from all of the Republicans with the way he's treated.
"We have moved in the right direction, and there have been improvements, but we still have a long ways to go in the country.
"The bigger difference is that back then they had hoods. Now they have neckties and starched shirts."
Nightengale said on CBS radio on Wednesday that Aaron was talking about "CEOs, corporate America, everything else" and "he wasn’t referring to a political party."
“People can say things behind closed doors; they try to be more politically correct publicly, but (they) can (say and) do a lot of different things privately,” Nightengale said. “I agree with him. I agree that stuff now is kept more private. You’ll hear things at private parties or things behind the scenes where people won’t say things publicly, but they’ll certainly say it in whispers and things like that."
MLB.com writer Terrence Moore mentioned that he has known Aaron for "over 30 years," and he said on two national television shows on Wednesday that the slugger is "fed up" with people believing that he was speaking ill about Republicans.
"I talked to Hank earlier today and Hank is very upset with this entire situation," Moore said on ESPN's Outside the Lines. Moore said that "Hank feels he has been taken totally out of context here," and there is the "big focus is on that statement he didn't make that the Republican party is analogous to the Ku Klux Klan, which he never said."
"He is very bitter about this situation," Moore said. "This just opens up old wounds that he would rather not deal with."
Host Bob Ley asked Nightengale whether the way in which the quotes were placed in the article was a "fair reflection of the proximity of the comments." Nightengale said it was a "fair reflection." Moore said Aaron through the years has been "very leery of the media because there has been a tendency to take him out of context," but praised Nightengale's story for being "perfectly accurate" and "perfectly acceptable." Moore even said there is a perception that "Hank said these things opposite of what Bob wrote."
Nightengale also said that Aaron had just broken his hip and gotten the Congressional Medal of Honor and was "very close to President Barack Obama and this stuff is just close to his heart." He said Aaron was not degrading any political party and was going from "one thought to the next." Nightengale seemed perplexed why people would think Aaron compared conservatives to the KKK even though Aaron spoke about racism in America and Republicans who oppose Obama directly before, by Nightengale's admission, making the comments about hoods and starched shirts.
"I don't know why people draw that line about Republicans and the KKK," Nightengale said. "All Mr. Aaron was saying is that don't believe that racism doesn't exist now because we have a black president."
Nightengale, on Outside the Lines, said "never did" Aaron "say the way he's treated is because people are racist because of political party. He never said that. So I don't know why people are drawing an inference to that."
"Racism was a lot more overt back then and it still exists but it is a lot more camouflaged right now," Nightengale said. "But never was he saying that if you don't like President Barack Obama or his policies that you're a racist or degrading any political party... He has every right to be bitter for what he went through 40 years ago and never once has he lashed out."
Appearing later in the day on MSNBC's The Ed Show, Moore again denied that Aaron ever compared today's conservatives or the Republican Party to the Ku Klux Klan and said he was "fed up with this."
Here are the relevant portions from Nightengale's USA Today article last week in which he quoted Aaron:
Aaron's march to history ended 40 years ago today, when his 715th home run vaulted him past Ruth as baseball's all-time home run leader. Yet it was an often joyless and lonely pursuit, and Aaron says he has good reason to hang onto the cruel correspondence.
"To remind myself," Aaron tells USA TODAY Sports, "that we are not that far removed from when I was chasing the record. If you think that, you are fooling yourself. A lot of things have happened in this country, but we have so far to go. There's not a whole lot that has changed.
"We can talk about baseball. Talk about politics. Sure, this country has a black president, but when you look at a black president, President Obama is left with his foot stuck in the mud from all of the Republicans with the way he's treated.
"We have moved in the right direction, and there have been improvements, but we still have a long ways to go in the country.
"The bigger difference is that back then they had hoods. Now they have neckties and starched shirts."
Aaron, 80, looks around and sees few African Americans as CEOs of major corporations. He reads and watches about incidents such as the Trayvon Martin case, a racially charged trial in which George Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, was acquitted after shooting and killing Martin, an unarmed black teen. Zimmerman was accused of racial profiling; he claimed he acted in self-defense.
And, of course, Aaron looks at the faces on the ballfield.
"When I first started playing, you had a lot of black players in the major leagues," Aaron says. "Now, you don't have any (7.7% of big-leaguers last season). So what progress have we made? You try to understand, but we're going backward."
Nightengale looked at 25-30 "sickening" e-mails and letters the Braves received that were obtained by USA today and said the Braves were stunned "that this stuff still exists today." Nightengale said though Aaron did not receive death threats after his story was published, some emails were racist in nature. Nightengale said things have changed in America, but "a lot have stayed the same." The Braves organization has declined to comment on the letters or the situation surrounding Aaron's comments.
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Hank Aaron should have never said what he did. Any excuse a person wants to make does not justify it. Just because many disagree with a president destroying the country and taking freedom and liberty from the people doesn't make them racist. That is their right to disagree. Hank Aaron allowed the typical left wing race bait tactics to be spewed from his lips and it will hurt his legacy with many. It's unfortunate.
<< <i>"When I first started playing, you had a lot of black players in the major leagues," Aaron says. "Now, you don't have any (7.7% of big-leaguers last season). So what progress have we made? You try to understand, but we're going backward." >>
This makes little sense. As if MLB is holding back Black players, while the NFL and NBA are not.
Time to cull some cards.........
Perhaps Hank Aaron could donate additional time or money from his vast wealth to bring black youths back to baseball. I know I would like to see more young black baseball players come to the big leagues and become stars like Jackie Robinson did.
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<< <i>"When I first started playing, you had a lot of black players in the major leagues," Aaron says. "Now, you don't have any (7.7% of big-leaguers last season). So what progress have we made? You try to understand, but we're going backward." >>
This makes little sense. As if MLB is holding back Black players, while the NFL and NBA are not.
Time to cull some cards......... >>
Of course it makes little sense. It wasn't supposed to make sense. Obama is friends with Hank Aaron, and it appears that he was upset that his friend and fellow African American was being criticized for his political policies. So... Hank Aaron went to the playbook that people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson use, and pulled the race baiting strategy. The white guilt game if you will. IMO, it was uncalled for and will forever hurt his legacy.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i> Obama is friends with Hank Aaron >>
Difference is one hit homers for 20 years, the other has done nothing but strike out for 6 and counting.
<< <i>Why do I feel like this all has very little to do with Hank Aaron or anything he may or may not have said? >>
Exactly. The agenda and the message behind it are crystal clear.
Maybe we should switch to watching golf; fewer thugs and tats, right MG?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Why do I feel like this all has very little to do with Hank Aaron or anything he may or may not have said? >>
Perhaps it because you support the very people Hank Aaron was defending while calling others out with race baiting games?
Hank Aaron has every right to feel like he wants to, but don't bring 'hoods', a.k.a., the KKK, into an interview and insinuate it towards people who disagree with the president's policies. Then, when called on it, try to backtrack and imply you meant something else while you have the media help cover for your uncalled for statements.
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<< <i>Why do I feel like this all has very little to do with Hank Aaron or anything he may or may not have said? >>
Exactly. The agenda and the message behind it are crystal clear.
Maybe we should switch to watching golf; fewer thugs and tats, right MG? >>
I made 3 contributions to Obama in 2008 when he ran against Hillary. He had no problem accepting my Paypal remittances.
Sadly a key campaign promise was a lie and all that called him on it became racists.
Add it up as you like, Grote.
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<< <i>Why do I feel like this all has very little to do with Hank Aaron or anything he may or may not have said? >>
Exactly. The agenda and the message behind it are crystal clear.
Maybe we should switch to watching golf; fewer thugs and tats, right MG? >>
Sadly a key campaign promise was a lie and all that called him on it became racists. >>
Exactly....
I think this thread should be shut down before it veers further into ugliness. There is a reason that the rule of the forums prohibits political discussions. Let's stick to sports and play on the field.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>My point had nothing whatsoever to do with the President... >>
What is your point?
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<< <i>My point had nothing whatsoever to do with the President... >>
What is your point? >>
See above post.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>My point had nothing whatsoever to do with the President...
I think this thread should be shut down before it veers further into ugliness. There is a reason that the rule of the forums prohibits political discussions. Let's stick to sports and play on the field. >>
We were discussing Hank Aaron and what his legacy will be as a result of his comments. That's sports. When some can't refute what was said, and their excuses for Hank Aaron fail, they want to shut down the discussion. Ok, if that is what you want. Fine.
Like I said, Hank Aaron has every right to feel like he wants to, but don't bring 'hoods', a.k.a., the KKK, into an interview and insinuate it towards people who disagree with the president's policies. Then, when called on it, try to backtrack and imply you meant something else while you have the media help cover for your uncalled for statements.
As a fan of Hank Aaron, he really let me down with such reckless statements in his interview.
That sums it up for me. I have nothing else to say on the matter.
Though I disagree with your simplification of the situation with regard to Aaron, about whom, truthfully, none of us is qualified to judge, I do agree with your assertion on saying nothing else on the matter.
As I said earlier, Aaron has been and will continue to be revered as baseball's all time HR king, and one of the most popular players in its long and illustrious history. That much the vast majority, at least, can say for certain.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.