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China eliminates weight and fineness markings from gold Pandas

CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
From Coin World. This should destroy the series.

linky
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

Comments

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,379 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They're mainstreaming the counterfeiters and offering them mint jobs.

    Wouldn't touch these with a 10 foot chopstick.
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,266 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Wouldn't touch these with a 10 foot chopstick. >>



    Now that's funny.

    I suspect BABA to being being flooded with Brand New Freshly Minted "authentic" Gold Pandas now.
    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
  • trozautrozau Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭
    Back in 2001, they announced the end to changing panda designs annually. 2002 was released with the same 2001 design and the panda collectors complained. I predict the same results for this move - finess, weight and metal will be back in 2016. This will be another 1-off issue like the 2002.

    BTW, the plans for grams/KG instead of Troy ounce and not being indicated on the coin were announced back in June.
    trozau (troy ounce gold)
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe I'm being cynical (which I tend to be), but this looks to me like a global declaration of a government-led intent to defraud. So, anyone who is trusting enough to buy Chinese bullion products with the assumption that they're genuine and pure, is a sheep asking to be sheared. Baaa!
    When in doubt, don't.
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    Not to push this thread too far off topic, but I never understood why the 100 oz. JM "loaf" bar doesn't say anywhere that it's made of silver. It just says 100 oz. Would be nice for the bar to idenify itself as being pure silver. Linky.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • trozautrozau Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭
    Hmmm... That could be 999 pure anything (including worthless metal) and it would still be truthful. That is why a collector and/or a stacker must be knowledgeable in what they collect/stack before sinking serious funds on their collection/stack.
    trozau (troy ounce gold)
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So now what ??? image
    Timbuk3
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,150 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So now what ??? image >>



    Buy something else.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭


    << <i> Buy something else. >>



    +1.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • BlackBeardBlackBeard Posts: 1,064 ✭
    Maybe they're not all that interested in selling their gold. Nice way to quietly stop selling the government stack.

    I would never buy an unmarked piece even if it was slabbed by a major company. If a bullion piece doesn't say "hi I'm gold" on it anywhere it just doesn't appeal to me, gold-wise. Might as well just get a gold plated silver Panda and save the money.
    Witty sig line currently under construction. Thank you for your patience.
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭
    What's the difference between these coins and the pre-33, pesos, marengos or all the other old "bullion" coins everyone buys despite the fact they don't have fineness, content and metal information on them?
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • trozautrozau Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭
    Ha Ha! Excellent point. The thing though is that the China Panda is issued as a bullion coin. Not expressly noting what its composition, actual PM weight and finess raises concern of the coin not being readily acceptable and possibly needing assay at liquidation time (unless you are going thru the China Mint buy back program).

    Note: Even jewelry is marked for its finess to facilitate valuation by weight.
    trozau (troy ounce gold)
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bonus for me as now it doesn't distract from the tubby & complacent panda view.

    Besides, I have what I want from that series and the risk is no longer worth the view.
    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • BlackBeardBlackBeard Posts: 1,064 ✭


    << <i>What's the difference between these coins and the pre-33, pesos, marengos or all the other old "bullion" coins everyone buys despite the fact they don't have fineness, content and metal information on them? >>



    The difference is the pre-33, pesos, etc. were issued as circulating coinage at the time with the stated value matching the worth then. The Pandas, while they may have a value on them, it is nowhere near the value of the coin and is intended as a bullion piece. Similar to the 5oz silver bullion US National park coins marked at 25 cents face value, never intended to circulate. Being a bullion piece it should have the fineness and weight on the coin as all other bullion pieces do.

    These will be unpopular.
    Witty sig line currently under construction. Thank you for your patience.
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Being a bullion piece it should have the fineness and weight on the coin as all other bullion pieces do. >>



    Agreed.



    << <i>These will be unpopular. >>



    At first, yes. But if/when they return to marking the fineness/weight on them, these could become somewhat popular as a one year type coin.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Time for American Chop Marks image Assay it yourselves.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,150 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Time for American Chop Marks image Assay it yourselves. >>



    I like that!

    Or, we could test them and stick green or gold beans directly on the coins!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LOL TD, I like that better. (as humor would find it)
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,129 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And you trust them to operate a gold exchange? LMAO!!!
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The difference is the pre-33, pesos, etc. were issued as circulating coinage at the time with the stated value matching the worth then. The Pandas, while they may have a value on them, it is nowhere near the value of the coin and is intended as a bullion piece. Similar to the 5oz silver bullion US National park coins marked at 25 cents face value, never intended to circulate. Being a bullion piece it should have the fineness and weight on the coin as all other bullion pieces do.
    >>



    This says it all..... without the proper information, I would not acquire the object. Cheers, RickO
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭
    A another reason not to buy Chinese gold.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone remember or ever have any of the American Gold Art Commemorative coins ? Beautiful 1/2 ounce gold coins. No weight, no fineness and melted en masse, at one time.

    This Panda announcement may reduce "orders" and you know what that does to things….
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    The old Mexican 50 and 20 peso coins do state the gold content ("37.5 gr oro puro", etc.).

    For a modern bullion coin, it's an absolute must.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    If you think these will someday become "rare" because of reduced orders and melting and whatever ... go buy a bunch and hold your breath. I am not interested and I have plenty of other ways to invest my money.
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10 • FOR SALE

    image
  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stupid move,,,,,,,, image allmost as dumb as putting the date on the edge of a SAC or Presidential Dollar image
    GrandAm image
    GrandAm :)
  • BlackBeardBlackBeard Posts: 1,064 ✭
    I can't believe that I responded to this post, yet in Jan. or Feb. bought a 1oz silver Panda for my partial set from a respected local B&M. Wasn't paying any attention to the fact that there was no weight or purity marking on it. If I was awake that day I would have passed. I'm done with the Panda series. This can only hurt their popularity.

    I'm usually very careful checking but just trusted the dealer and "bought this year's Panda" never really looking at it. Noticed the lack of marking mentioned on a thread at another bullion board.
    Witty sig line currently under construction. Thank you for your patience.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A specific gravity test (simple) would tell you what you are missing or what the coin is missing. Have a dealer
    do it for you before you purchase or give a return so you can do the testing.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭


    << <i>I can't believe that I responded to this post, yet in Jan. or Feb. bought a 1oz silver Panda for my partial set from a respected local B&M. Wasn't paying any attention to the fact that there was no weight or purity marking on it. If I was awake that day I would have passed. I'm done with the Panda series. This can only hurt their popularity.

    I'm usually very careful checking but just trusted the dealer and "bought this year's Panda" never really looking at it. Noticed the lack of marking mentioned on a thread at another bullion board. >>



    IIRC, this should be a step toward switching to metric system and start minting coins in grams.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • BlackBeardBlackBeard Posts: 1,064 ✭
    I trust the dealer, also saw him take it from a mint sheet. Mostly worried about when it's time to sell. Few people like unmarked bullion and I feel this has the potential to be widely counterfeited. I does sound like they are going to go with an even gram number for their bullion but I see no reason to not mark it with weight and purity. I won't buy any more without clear markings.

    I read where they are going to distribute them in China through banks now and not just certain outlets, making them widely available which should greatly increase demand in China. That may push the price of the back dates up significantly with the limited amount minted and the sheer number of people in China. I'm not going to bet on it, but have a nice enough supply of back dates to come out nicely if it works out that way.
    Witty sig line currently under construction. Thank you for your patience.
  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭


    << <i>... in Jan. or Feb. bought a 1oz silver Panda for my partial set from a respected local B&M. Wasn't paying any attention to the fact that there was no weight or purity marking on it... >>


    Would be interesting to see what reaction you would receive were you to try to sell it. (To someone else, not back to the same B&M.)


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