Question about NGC details grading

desslok

I saw a coin in NGC slab, the label reads "UNC details, surface hairlines".

Why "surface hairlines"? Why not "cleaned"? Is surface hairlines different from cleaning? I mean, the hairlines got there probably due to abrasive rubbing, why doesn't NGC use the explicit dreaded "C" word? Value-wise, is surface hairlines label as bad as cleaning, or not as bad?

The coin is not mine so I'm not sure I can share the images.

Rampage

Don't know the answer. Maybe post on the NGC forums for their response.

Tookybandit

Good question. I have wondered this myself!

amwldcoin

I would think surface hairlines would be a worse description than cleaning as it implies a more severe cleaning as opposed to some coins which are cleaned but don't have readily apparent hairlines.

coindudeonebay

You could always just go to NGC and ask at their "ASK NGC" portion of the forum.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=5&page=1

brg5658

NGC uses more descriptive terms in describing "Details graded" coins than does PCGS. Surface hairlines falls under the larger category of "Improperly cleaned" in the NGC world...

Took me 10 second to type "NGC details grading" into Google and find this page:

Linky

JazzmanJAB

I have heard Rick Tomaska talk about hairlines, on proof coins from the era, 1958-1964 flexible mint packaging. The coins being handled through the OGP, caused surface hairlines, only visible under a halogen light.

AngryTurtle

I dont know specifically how NGC does it, but "Surface Hairlines" is a more specific description than "Cleaned". There are many possibilities when a coin is cleaned, many do not leave hairlines.

ALso as AmWld said, perhaps there is a different severity between the terms, I dont know.

WildIdea

As opposed to somewhere else on the coin than the surface? Hairline is descriptive enough for me. Hair being a small thin micro descriptive term.

leothelyon

If there are no hairlines, how would they know a coin has been cleaned?

amwldcoin

<< <i>If there are no hairlines, how would they know a coin has been cleaned? >>



Impaired or lack of luster on XF+ and better grades. Unnatural surfaces on lower grade coins.

leothelyon

<< <i>

<< <i>If there are no hairlines, how would they know a coin has been cleaned? >>



Impaired or lack of luster on XF+ and better grades. Unnatural surfaces on lower grade coins. >>



Ok but the OP coin has Unc details..........so let's assume the coin has luster, how would they tell?

amwldcoin

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>If there are no hairlines, how would they know a coin has been cleaned? >>



Impaired or lack of luster on XF+ and better grades. Unnatural surfaces on lower grade coins. >>



Ok but the OP coin has Unc details..........so let's assume the coin has luster, how would they tell? >>



The original posters coin has surface hairlines...alias it has been wiped in some fashion. This actual has me expanding my thoughts to perhaps the luster is nice enough for a straight grade if not for the hairlines! Perhaps it is more desirable than an Unc details cleaned description as the luster would be more likely impaired.

BillJones

<< <i>If there are no hairlines, how would they know a coin has been cleaned? >>



You can polish a coin and end up with no hairlines, just ugly (to experienced collectors) "shine."

leothelyon

<< <i>

<< <i>If there are no hairlines, how would they know a coin has been cleaned? >>



You can polish a coin and end up with no hairlines, just ugly (to experienced collectors) "shine." >>



You would also end up with very little flow lines for luster. And experienced collectors would suspect a cleaning when those lines are missing and the luster looks somewhat subdued.


Also, thank you awc for lightening me up.

keets

with the information given by the OP most replies are only conjecture and guess work, but as JazzmanJab stated Proof coins from the 1950-55 era quite often have visible hairlines from the cello packaging. my reasoning goes like this --- just as it's possible for a coin to be "cleaned" with no evidence of hairlines it is certainly reasonable to believe that a coin could have hairlines without being "cleaned" to get them.

brg5658

NGC definitions from the link I posted before (which apparently no one cares to follow):

-----------------------------------

BRUSHED describes a coin that has been wiped with an abrasive brush. The affected areas may be narrowed down to OBV BRUSHED or REV BRUSHED.

BURNISHED is the term used when the cleaning is more aggressive and gives the coin a very brilliant but unnatural sheen. Sometimes this action is performed with some abrasive media such as ball bearings, or it may result from treatment within a rock tumbler.

IMPROPERLY CLEANED is a generic term to describe unskilled cleaning when the exact nature of the action is uncertain.

POLISHED is similar to BURNISHED, though it’s typically applied when the abrasive action is less severe.

SPOT REMOVALS describes the unskilled, mechanical removal of “flyspecks,” small black spots of intense toning or corrosion. It also refers to similar removal of reddish “copper spots” often seen on gold coins.

SURFACE HAIRLINES are faint, abrasive lines that disturb a coin’s appearance, even though some original surface may remain underneath. They typically result from gentle rubbing with a cloth, and their severity may be described more fully through addition of the terms LIGHT, MODERATE or EXCESSIVE.

WHIZZED coins have been cleaned with a fast, rotary wire brush in order to simulate the effect of mint luster on a circulated coin. These are easily spotted by experts, as their lettering and other design details typically are distorted a bit by this action.

WIPED describes a coin that displays surface hairlines in one or more isolated areas. This is usually the result of accidental mishandling rather than intentional cleaning, but it still requires Details Grading. NGC’s graders may specify OBV WIPED or REV WIPED to more accurately describe the condition.

LochNESS

You know we are lazy, this is no surprise

keets

the key-word in that cut/paste is typically.

Stuart

brg5658, Thanks for the helpful "Details" grading definitions descriptor list.

leothelyon

SURFACE HAIRLINES are faint, abrasive lines that disturb a coin’s appearance, even though some original surface may remain underneath. They typically result from gentle rubbing with a cloth, and their severity may be described more fully through addition of the terms LIGHT, MODERATE or EXCESSIVE.

Coin dipping to remove unwanted toning, some original surface may remain underneath as well and the label needs to show that.