I'm sure this discovery made some uncomfortable waves in the deep end of the pool.
This coin was in a straight-grade AU55 PCGS holder? If so, our host will eat if (or at least most of it). Fair market valuation will take some figuring out. There will be plenty of room for finger pointing, hurt feelings, etc. There is a point at which authentication takes on real significance.
Makes losing a $200 coin in the mail look like kid's play.
<< <i>I'm sure this discovery made some uncomfortable waves in the deep end of the pool.
This coin was in a straight-grade AU55 PCGS holder? If so, our host will eat if (or at least most of it). Fair market valuation will take some figuring out. There will be plenty of room for finger pointing, hurt feelings, etc. There is a point at which authentication takes on real significance.
Makes losing a $200 coin in the mail look like kid's play. >>
Stacks thought the coin was copper and was to say the least - very surprised when it came back as silver.
Unfortunately, after further research the coin was declared not genuine.
<< <i>Looks like the electrotype may have been made from the following disme in copper that's plated in the Breen Proof book. Notice the contact marks in the reverse fields. >>
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
This coin is a minimum of a 6 figure if genuine-perhaps even 7. When viewed by pcgs only 6 months ago (or less) Im sure the best of the graders authenticated it before pcgs would slab it.
If this coin was made over 40 years ago when the quality of counterfeits was much lower- and yet it originally fooled the best of the best, imagine how easily 2015 counterfeiting can fool the 2nd tier graders
<< <i>Still quite collectible as an electro & I hope the collector community gets a crack at it. >>
Any guesses as to what it might be worth as an electrotype? Who will slab it as such? Any inside knowledge as to what is going to happen with the thing now?
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I feel sorry for the collector who might have passed on the Partrick coin (NGC AU50) so as to buy this one (PCGS AU55). Still only two known in silver on a thin planchet (AU and VF).
<< <i>This coin was in a straight-grade AU55 PCGS holder? If so, our host will eat if (or at least most of it).
I doubt that, since the coin did not trade hands in a PCGS holder. >>
The same sentiment was expressed to me earlier via PM. Considering my own ignorance to the specifics regarding this coin, you're probably correct. It just strikes me as "potentially problematic" when non-genuine coins find themselves in "genuine" holders. I'm not implying that there should never be mistakes, or that I'm critical of the graders who put it there. I wouldn't know a genuine 1792 disme from a clad Roosevelt. Keeping on top of the mountain of information that is numismatics is a Herculean task. For such situations, the PCGS guarantee was created. The guarantee is THE "added value" the grading services provide.
While I have no knowledge of the particulars of this coin, my understanding is that the PCGS guarantee does not require that a coin be bought or sold be be in effect. From our hosts own website:
"U.S. and World coins graded and encapsulated by PCGS are guaranteed genuine....
If the grade determined under such "Guarantee Resubmission" procedures is lower than the grade originally assigned to the coin, or if the coin is found to be misattributed, non-authentic, PCGS shall pay the current market value for the coin in question at the originally assigned grade, or at the owner of the coin's option, the difference between the current market value for the coin in question at the newly established grade and the current market value of the coin in question at the grade originally assigned. PCGS will also refund the regrading fee and postage and insurance costs incurred by the coin owner in sending the coin to PCGS..."
To me, the risk assumed by the grading company probably means they spend a few more minutes on 7-figure coins of uncertain provenance than on the 53rd coin from a monster box of ASEs.
Comments
usually it's just shortened to "Liberty"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
This coin was in a straight-grade AU55 PCGS holder? If so, our host will eat if (or at least most of it). Fair market valuation will take some figuring out. There will be plenty of room for finger pointing, hurt feelings, etc. There is a point at which authentication takes on real significance.
Makes losing a $200 coin in the mail look like kid's play.
<< <i>I'm sure this discovery made some uncomfortable waves in the deep end of the pool.
This coin was in a straight-grade AU55 PCGS holder? If so, our host will eat if (or at least most of it). Fair market valuation will take some figuring out. There will be plenty of room for finger pointing, hurt feelings, etc. There is a point at which authentication takes on real significance.
Makes losing a $200 coin in the mail look like kid's play. >>
Stacks thought the coin was copper and was to say the least - very surprised when it came back as silver.
Unfortunately, after further research the coin was declared not genuine.
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Can we expect to see it on eBay marketed as authentic?
<< <i>So what's it worth as an electrotype?
Can we expect to see it on eBay marketed as authentic?
In our friend centsles' eBay auction as an NNC certified MS62?
You'd have to be senseless!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Looks like the electrotype may have been made from the following disme in copper that's plated in the Breen Proof book. Notice the contact marks in the reverse fields. >>
Good catch!
Gotta agree with indeetlib with the source coin.
If this coin was made over 40 years ago when the quality of counterfeits was much lower- and yet it originally fooled the best of the best, imagine how easily 2015 counterfeiting can fool the 2nd tier graders
<< <i>Still quite collectible as an electro & I hope the collector community gets a crack at it. >>
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I doubt that, since the coin did not trade hands in a PCGS holder.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>This coin was in a straight-grade AU55 PCGS holder? If so, our host will eat if (or at least most of it).
I doubt that, since the coin did not trade hands in a PCGS holder. >>
The same sentiment was expressed to me earlier via PM. Considering my own ignorance to the specifics regarding this coin, you're probably correct. It just strikes me as "potentially problematic" when non-genuine coins find themselves in "genuine" holders. I'm not implying that there should never be mistakes, or that I'm critical of the graders who put it there. I wouldn't know a genuine 1792 disme from a clad Roosevelt. Keeping on top of the mountain of information that is numismatics is a Herculean task. For such situations, the PCGS guarantee was created. The guarantee is THE "added value" the grading services provide.
While I have no knowledge of the particulars of this coin, my understanding is that the PCGS guarantee does not require that a coin be bought or sold be be in effect. From our hosts own website:
"U.S. and World coins graded and encapsulated by PCGS are guaranteed genuine....
If the grade determined under such "Guarantee Resubmission" procedures is lower than the grade originally assigned to the coin, or if the coin is found to be misattributed, non-authentic, PCGS shall pay the current market value for the coin in question at the originally assigned grade, or at the owner of the coin's option, the difference between the current market value for the coin in question at the newly established grade and the current market value of the coin in question at the grade originally assigned. PCGS will also refund the regrading fee and postage and insurance costs incurred by the coin owner in sending the coin to PCGS..."
To me, the risk assumed by the grading company probably means they spend a few more minutes on 7-figure coins of uncertain provenance than on the 53rd coin from a monster box of ASEs.