ANA answers for letter re. Boy Scout leaders
1822HalfEagle
Posts: 11 ✭✭
Below is my letter to the ANA Board re. their support of the Boy Scouts of America:
July 13, 2014
Dr. Walter A. Ostromecki, Jr.
President
American Numismatic Association
Sent via Email: Ostromecki@Money.org
Dear Walt:
I have been a member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA) for 43 years, 39 of those years as a life member. During that time, I supported the organization through numerous donations and more than $25,000.00 in bourse fees.
At the tender age of 16, as a young numismatist, I joined the ANA. Three years later, at 19 years old, I attended and worked as a professional numismatist at my first ANA convention in Miami, Florida. The kind support and encouragement I received from older ANA members and dealers were amazing!
Because of these fond memories, I am writing to you with a concern I hope that you, as ANA President, and the ANA board members will address. As you know for many years, the ANA has supported, both financially and otherwise, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). Thousands of scouts have attended and benefited from the ANA sponsored coin collecting merit badge workshops. These ANA workshops have been open to each scout and their parents free of charge.
Unfortunately, the BSA prohibits anyone who identifies as gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender to serve in any adult leadership position. In June 2014, Attorney General Eric Holder said regarding the BSA: “…the continuation of a policy that discriminates against gay adult leaders – by an iconic American institution – only preserves and perpetuates the worst kind of stereotypes.” Attorney General Holder further said, “…as gay men and women put their lives on the line as members of America’s armed services…then surely they are fit to mentor, to teach, and to serve as role models for the leaders of future generations.”
The BSA, as a private institution, has the right to discriminate and exclude anyone from their organization. My question to you, ANA President, board members, and the nearly 30,000 members is simply this: Why should the ANA, the world’s largest coin
collector and non-profit organization support the BSA after they have repeatedly discriminated against anyone who identifies as gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender?
Over the course of our 30-year relationship, Walt, I witnessed your strong focus and generosity in supporting and educating young people. Because of your 37-year career in public administration and education I would hope that you could not and would not discriminate against anyone.
Hypothetically, how would you or any ANA board member respond to a teenager who confides in you with this emotional question: “I don’t understand why my dad/mom can’t participate with the Boy Scouts because he/she is gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender?”
I am requesting that the ANA discontinue it’s support of the BSA until the BSA no longer discriminates, on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, any leadership position for adult volunteers or staff. I welcome both you and the ANA board members response.
Sincerely yours,
Michael H. Aron
Life Member
MHA/ag
cc: Jeff C. Garrett, ANA Vice President
Gary Adkins, ANA Governor
Mike Ellis, ANA Governor
Greg Lyon, ANA Governor
Ralph Ross, ANA Governor
Scott T. Rottinghaus, ANA Governor
Laura Sperber, ANA Governor
Jeff Swindling, ANA Governor
Editor, Coin World
ANA's response:
Walter Ostromecki – ANA PRESIDENT August 20, 2014 2:49 PM
To: Michael
Reply-To: Walt Ostromecki – ANA PRESIDENT ostromecki@money.org
Re: BSA issue
Michael:
Please excuse my delay in getting back to you.
I have been dealing with ANA business issues and complaints relating to the US Mint’s Gold Kennedy Half Dollar issuance in Chicago. This issue took up most of the Executive Session Board discussions in Chicago as it dealt with security and safety matters. Unfortunately, there was not an opportunity to address the BSA issue.
I did talk with most of the Board – who all received your two emails on the matter – during the convention and one on one via email/telephone.
Here is the prevailing thought: “The Boy Scouts are a private institution and therefore it is not the ANA’s business to support or oppose their stance on gay scout leaders or any other policy they develop or maintain. As a result, the ANA should not take a stand on this issue. The ANA is all about promoting educational opportunities wherever we find them and scouting through the coin collecting merit badge is certainly one way to accomplish our Congressionally chartered requirement.”
Thank you for taking the time to bring your concern to the attention of the ANA Board of Governor’s. I understand from an email copy sent me via ANA Vice President Garrett that it is his intent to follow up on your concern.
Hope to see you and at the upcoming Golden State Coin Show in Arcadia this weekend.
(signed) Walt
Walt Ostromecki
TextTextText
July 13, 2014
Dr. Walter A. Ostromecki, Jr.
President
American Numismatic Association
Sent via Email: Ostromecki@Money.org
Dear Walt:
I have been a member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA) for 43 years, 39 of those years as a life member. During that time, I supported the organization through numerous donations and more than $25,000.00 in bourse fees.
At the tender age of 16, as a young numismatist, I joined the ANA. Three years later, at 19 years old, I attended and worked as a professional numismatist at my first ANA convention in Miami, Florida. The kind support and encouragement I received from older ANA members and dealers were amazing!
Because of these fond memories, I am writing to you with a concern I hope that you, as ANA President, and the ANA board members will address. As you know for many years, the ANA has supported, both financially and otherwise, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). Thousands of scouts have attended and benefited from the ANA sponsored coin collecting merit badge workshops. These ANA workshops have been open to each scout and their parents free of charge.
Unfortunately, the BSA prohibits anyone who identifies as gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender to serve in any adult leadership position. In June 2014, Attorney General Eric Holder said regarding the BSA: “…the continuation of a policy that discriminates against gay adult leaders – by an iconic American institution – only preserves and perpetuates the worst kind of stereotypes.” Attorney General Holder further said, “…as gay men and women put their lives on the line as members of America’s armed services…then surely they are fit to mentor, to teach, and to serve as role models for the leaders of future generations.”
The BSA, as a private institution, has the right to discriminate and exclude anyone from their organization. My question to you, ANA President, board members, and the nearly 30,000 members is simply this: Why should the ANA, the world’s largest coin
collector and non-profit organization support the BSA after they have repeatedly discriminated against anyone who identifies as gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender?
Over the course of our 30-year relationship, Walt, I witnessed your strong focus and generosity in supporting and educating young people. Because of your 37-year career in public administration and education I would hope that you could not and would not discriminate against anyone.
Hypothetically, how would you or any ANA board member respond to a teenager who confides in you with this emotional question: “I don’t understand why my dad/mom can’t participate with the Boy Scouts because he/she is gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender?”
I am requesting that the ANA discontinue it’s support of the BSA until the BSA no longer discriminates, on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, any leadership position for adult volunteers or staff. I welcome both you and the ANA board members response.
Sincerely yours,
Michael H. Aron
Life Member
MHA/ag
cc: Jeff C. Garrett, ANA Vice President
Gary Adkins, ANA Governor
Mike Ellis, ANA Governor
Greg Lyon, ANA Governor
Ralph Ross, ANA Governor
Scott T. Rottinghaus, ANA Governor
Laura Sperber, ANA Governor
Jeff Swindling, ANA Governor
Editor, Coin World
ANA's response:
Walter Ostromecki – ANA PRESIDENT August 20, 2014 2:49 PM
To: Michael
Reply-To: Walt Ostromecki – ANA PRESIDENT ostromecki@money.org
Re: BSA issue
Michael:
Please excuse my delay in getting back to you.
I have been dealing with ANA business issues and complaints relating to the US Mint’s Gold Kennedy Half Dollar issuance in Chicago. This issue took up most of the Executive Session Board discussions in Chicago as it dealt with security and safety matters. Unfortunately, there was not an opportunity to address the BSA issue.
I did talk with most of the Board – who all received your two emails on the matter – during the convention and one on one via email/telephone.
Here is the prevailing thought: “The Boy Scouts are a private institution and therefore it is not the ANA’s business to support or oppose their stance on gay scout leaders or any other policy they develop or maintain. As a result, the ANA should not take a stand on this issue. The ANA is all about promoting educational opportunities wherever we find them and scouting through the coin collecting merit badge is certainly one way to accomplish our Congressionally chartered requirement.”
Thank you for taking the time to bring your concern to the attention of the ANA Board of Governor’s. I understand from an email copy sent me via ANA Vice President Garrett that it is his intent to follow up on your concern.
Hope to see you and at the upcoming Golden State Coin Show in Arcadia this weekend.
(signed) Walt
Walt Ostromecki
TextTextText
0
Comments
I also am a life member of the ANA, along with the RCNA and I am proud of the ANA
and the BSA for NOT cowering to the whims of the radical left. Homosexual are not
role models for our youth to emulate.
doug
<< <i>I learned much and have many fond memories from my decades as a boy scout and scout leader. In fact the coin collecting merit badge inspired me to continue collecting coins. Looking back I am very thankful that my scout leaders/role models were heterosexuals. Adults are responsible for their personal decisions. Growing up is tough enough without encouraging young boys who are still learning, trying new things, and making mistakes along the way, to choose alternative life styles. I applaud the ANA's decision. >>
Here here!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I have been dealing with ANA business issues and complaints relating to the US Mint’s Gold Kennedy Half Dollar issuance in Chicago. This issue took up most of the Executive Session Board discussions in Chicago as it dealt with security and safety matters. >>
Good. I wonder if there were any sleepless nights involved.
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<< <i>Here is the prevailing thought: “The Boy Scouts are a private institution and therefore it is not the ANA’s business to support or oppose their stance on gay scout leaders or any other policy they develop or maintain. As a result, the ANA should not take a stand on this issue. The ANA is all about promoting educational opportunities wherever we find them and scouting through the coin collecting merit badge is certainly one way to accomplish our Congressionally chartered requirement.” >>
As an ANA Life Member who concurs with the "prevailing thought" I thank Walt and the BOG for providing a firm, clear response to Mr. Aron.
And thanks, Mr. Aron, for using your second post EVER to push a political agenda that is irrelevant to numismatics and has nothing to do with why 99.9% of us frequent these boards. I hope the entire thread gets deleted by our host.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
<< <i>Lock Me, Please! >>
You know, let's not. If the members of this forum want to expose their ugly bigotry, well, it makes it all the much easier to make this forum better for all coin collectors, rather than sweeping their hatred under the rug and pretending everything is right in the numismatic world.
(And for the ANA: by sponsoring merit badges, you are supporting the BSA's anti-gay and anti-atheist beliefs. Maybe you can treat them as the general public. No special privileges, but of course allowed to be members and attend your shows. Sounds easy.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
Unless one is forced to be in an organization, just DON'T JOIN! If it is important enough for a larger class of people, then create your own. If that isn't feasible, then there is a reason for it.
No need to change yourself, or try to change a lot of other people and an established organization...just go on about your own way.
I, for one, don't care for the ANA much but I would support them in their decision not to be bullied like so many other organizations have been about this issue.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Lock Me, Please! >>
You know, let's not. If the members of this forum want to expose their ugly bigotry, well, it makes it all the much easier to make this forum better for all coin collectors, rather than sweeping their hatred under the rug and pretending everything is right in the numismatic world.
(And for the ANA: by sponsoring merit badges, you are supporting the BSA's anti-gay and anti-atheist beliefs. Maybe you can treat them as the general public. No special privileges, but of course allowed to be members and attend your shows. Sounds easy. >>
+1
Best, SH
<< <i>For the record, the Boy Scouts are increasingly irrelevant every year. If they want to further their own antiquation by refusing to show equal treatment towards all parties, they can knock themselves out. I wasn't a member, never had any interest, and will only give a crap if my kids are ever interested in joining, and seeing that I am not sure I'm going to have kids... >>
If you were never involved at any point and have no interest and don't give a crap, how are you able to gauge their relevance? I'm just curious if this is just personal opinion or if there are hard facts to suppose this. I'm legitimately curious. My gut feeling would be that enrollment numbers have decreased over time, however, I would be very surprised if much could be attributed to policies regarding sexual orientation and not just kids preferring playing video games over typical scouting activities. I also think there is a much broader offering of youth sports that take up kids free time.
But yeah, this thread is pretty borderline irrelevant.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
<< <i>Somewhere Walter Breen is laughing.
You're inviting comparisons? Seriously?
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>Perhaps we should be tolerant of the intolerant? Or is intolerance only acceptable when directed towards the intolerant... >>
Intolerance will not be tolerated!
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<< <i>I don't think it is the ANA's place to punish the kids that may get some benefit because of the organizations views. >>
This.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
There is no effort here to be intolerant or tolerant... politically correct or incorrect... just an effort to stay within the scope of what our hosts intended.
To some this may seem pathetic and to others it is why this forum exists and hopefully will continue to exist.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Everyone wants to bash on every other organization and say how they should be changed.
Unless one is forced to be in an organization, just DON'T JOIN! If it is important enough for a larger class of people, then create your own. If that isn't feasible, then there is a reason for it.
No need to change yourself, or try to change a lot of other people and an established organization...just go on about your own way.
I, for one, don't care for the ANA much but I would support them in their decision not to be bullied like so many other organizations have been about this issue. >>
+1 I couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Bochiman.
<< <i>Lock Me, Please! >>
Agree, thread should be locked.
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No big surprise that membership is declining, parents spend little time with their kids nowdays. I doubt policy has a lot to do with it. The ANA took the position they should have.
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working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>For the record, the Boy Scouts are increasingly irrelevant every year. If they want to further their own antiquation by refusing to show equal treatment towards all parties, they can knock themselves out. I wasn't a member, never had any interest, and will only give a crap if my kids are ever interested in joining, and seeing that I am not sure I'm going to have kids... >>
If you were never involved at any point and have no interest and don't give a crap, how are you able to gauge their relevance? I'm just curious if this is just personal opinion or if there are hard facts to suppose this. I'm legitimately curious. My gut feeling would be that enrollment numbers have decreased over time, however, I would be very surprised if much could be attributed to policies regarding sexual orientation and not just kids preferring playing video games over typical scouting activities. I also think there is a much broader offering of youth sports that take up kids free time.
But yeah, this thread is pretty borderline irrelevant. >>
This article states 2.5m kids, 1m adults.
That's down from 6.25m in 1999.
Additionally, in 1999, US population was around 273m. That's up to 319m today.
Simple percentages. In 1999, around 2.29% of the population was involved with the Boy Scouts. Today? 1.1%. >>
Thanks!
Simple percentages. In 1999, around 2.29% of the population was involved with the Boy Scouts. Today? 1.1%. >>
...and the corresponding percentages for the ANA? (today with <28K members 0.009%)
<< <i>I also am a life member of the ANA, along with the RCNA and I am proud of the ANA
and the BSA for NOT cowering to the whims of the radical left. Homosexual are not
role models for our youth to emulate.
doug >>
Congratulations for choosing to be a heterosexual! That took lots of guts on your part!
However, I'm not sure that boycotting an organization that is HELPFUL to people, even if it's a subsector of all people, is a way to promote anything. It would be promoting your viewpoint by intimidation.
Too often, it seems, that is the way organizations and interest groups tend to go. Forcing their views upon the rest of society. In the long run, I think it hurts the cause more than it helps.
By all means, work to proactively support Gay Rights, in this case. But not in a negative or punitive manner. Over time, I believe you make more progress by having people willingly join you than by forcing your view upon them.
For these reasons, I support the ANA's stance. Their goal is promote coin collecting, and all that goes with it. It should be blind to the other politics that may come with ANY organization that they may work with, (provided those views and politics are not illegal, dangerous, or otherwise adverse to the ANA's goals).
I think your heart is in the right place. But the focus is wrong.
<< <i>I learned much and have many fond memories from my decades as a boy scout and scout leader. In fact the coin collecting merit badge inspired me to continue collecting coins. Looking back I am very thankful that my scout leaders/role models were heterosexuals. Adults are responsible for their personal decisions. Growing up is tough enough without encouraging young boys who are still learning, trying new things, and making mistakes along the way, to choose alternative life styles. I applaud the ANA's decision. >>
So are you telling us your heterosexuality was a conscious choice? That you could just as easily been gay as straight if it weren't for heterosexual scout leaders who steered you straight?
Guess you should also abolish the BSA for excluding girls and the Girl Scouts of America for excluding boys. Can't discriminate on gender, right?
Joe
<< <i>I also am a life member of the ANA, along with the RCNA and I am proud of the ANA
and the BSA for NOT cowering to the whims of the radical left. Homosexual are not
role models for our youth to emulate.
doug >>
As a member of the ANA, and a long time BSA leader who earned the Wood Badge, the highest adult leadership award, I too am proud of the BSA for not caving.
The ANA should not have an opinion on that issue.
" On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight. " , they have every right to stand up for their rights.
On a coin-related note, I often buy the commemoratives for myself and a few friends who enjoy giving them to Scouts who reach milestones such as Eagle Scout. I'm used to finding them in the 35-40 dollar range. Lately, I've had trouble finding them at local shows, and the prices are considerably higher. How are prices in your area? They are popular. Maybe they should be much higher than I expect them to be.
--Franz Kafka
<< <i>Ignorance, hate and bigotry is lame and most often based on the person's own inadequacy issues. I love the hypocrisy show by some of supporting the ANA as what it does in private as a private instatution is it's right all while judging what grown ups do in their private lives as justification to treat them a certain way. I always wonder when someone is very anti gay if they are really just trying to convince them selves. Me thinks they protest a little too much! >>
You mention private institutions, doing things in private, etc, etc.. And "what grown ups do in their private lives". Well bringing it here, in parades, etc, etc, in PUBLIC makes
it not so private. That's the problem. The issue of jamming it down everyone's throat. Go in your bedroom, lock the door and do what you want. And keep it there. Bigotry is
defined as intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. Well I can't think of a larger group that is more bigoted than gays.
Edit: I think I can make my point more simple. What I'm saying is that a lot of what is called bigotry is really people being sick & tired of how people grouped by their agenda behave
en masse. Like suing because someone simply disagrees. It's the "I'll show you that you have to respect ______" attitude. Like the gays that sued the baker over not making
a wedding cake because of his religious beliefs. And it's not just gays, it's any group motivated by race, religion, etc, etc.. that behaves poorly in order to make their point. It ranges
from law suits, to harassment, to ruining reputations, to destroying a city by rioting. People are disgusted with the en masse behavior. That's not bigotry. But they'll call you a bigot.
And it comes right back to the OP. Clearly an alt ID, post #2 to put forth an agenda. Someone tried to be clever and mask this as numismatic interest. It is not. That's my opinion
that I'm still entitled to. Call me whatever because I don't care, but like so many others- I'm over other people's bulling behavior to push their agendas. People need to be more
concerned about being a good American.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>I am a supporter of Gay Rights, equality, tolerance, and everything that is fair and equitable. In short, everything that the US Constitution purports to support.
However, I'm not sure that boycotting an organization that is HELPFUL to people, even if it's a subsector of all people, is a way to promote anything. It would be promoting your viewpoint by intimidation.
Too often, it seems, that is the way organizations and interest groups tend to go. Forcing their views upon the rest of society. In the long run, I think it hurts the cause more than it helps.
By all means, work to proactively support Gay Rights, in this case. But not in a negative or punitive manner. Over time, I believe you make more progress by having people willingly join you than by forcing your view upon them.
For these reasons, I support the ANA's stance. Their goal is promote coin collecting, and all that goes with it. It should be blind to the other politics that may come with ANY organization that they may work with, (provided those views and politics are not illegal, dangerous, or otherwise adverse to the ANA's goals).
I think your heart is in the right place. But the focus is wrong. >>
Steve
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Rule 6) This forum is about US Coins. If your post is not directly related to US Coins then this is the wrong forum. Do not post it or your posting privileges may be removed.
Besides these two rules OBVIOUSLY being overlooked, oh, Rule 5 is WELL on it's way to being broached, as well as, oh, just about every rule but Rule 10.
Don Knotts (or whoever is using that alt) should be banned, and immediately following, this thread should be poofed, not just locked (oh, is using the word 'POOF' going to offend the OP?).
Was this thread begun to try to have EVERY rule broken in ONE thread?????
Don Knotts, take the bullet Andy gave you and, ah, never mind. No good bleeding heart liberals!!
I am the father of three Eagle Scouts with another in pursuit. I am also a Coin Collecting merit badge counselor for the Boy Scouts of America.
My objective is to encourage young numismatists in their collecting and inspire others too. (Maybe you would like to do the same? It doesn't take a lot of time, and working with youth in this way is very rewarding. Check with your local troop how to go about it.)
In order for me to sign off on their work, they must fulfill a number of key requirements regarding many aspects of collecting. Here's the list of requirements.
1. Understand how coins are made, and where the active U.S. Mint facilities are located.
2. Explain these collecting terms:
a. Obverse
b. Reverse
c. Reeding
d. Clad
e. Type set
f. Date set
3. Explain the grading terms Uncirculated, Extremely Fine, Very Fine, Fine, Very Good, Good, and Poor. Show five different grade examples of the same coin type. Explain the term proof and why it is not a grade. Tell what encapsulated coins are.
4. Know three different ways to store a collection, and describe the benefits, drawbacks, and expenses of each method. Pick one to use when completing requirements.
5. Do the following:
a. Demonstrate to your counselor that you know how to use two U.S. or world coin reference catalogs.
b. Read a numismatic magazine or newspaper and tell your counselor about what you learned.
6 Describe the 1999-2008 50 State Quarters Program. Collect and show your counselor five different quarters you have acquired from circulation.
7. Collect from circulation a set of currently circulating U.S. coins. Include one coin of each denomination (cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half-dollar, dollar). For each coin, locate the mint marks, if any, and the designer’s initials, if any.
8. Do the following:
a. Identify the people depicted on the following denominations of current U.S. paper money: $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100.
b. Explain “legal tender.”
c. Describe the role the Federal Reserve System plays in the distribution of currency.
9. Do ONE of the following:
a. Collect and identify 50 foreign coins from at least 10 different countries.
b. Collect and identify 20 bank notes from at least five different countries.
c. Collect and identify 15 different tokens or medals.
d. For each year since the year of your birth, collect a date set of a single type of coin.
10. Do ONE of the following:
a. Tour a U.S. Mint facility, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, or a Federal Reserve bank, and describe what you learned to your counselor.
b. With your parent’s permission, attend a coin show or coin club meeting, or view the Web site of the U.S. Mint or a coin dealer, and report what you learned.
c. Give a talk about coin collecting to your troop or class at school.
d. Do drawings of five Colonial-era U.S. coins.
Whether you agree or disagree with their current position, the Boy Scouts of America fosters a tremendous amount of respect in young men for: themselves, this nation, their communities, the world around us, members of the armed services, the environment, their religion, physical fitness, personal management and on and on. As a parent, it has helped buttress many of the values I've hoped to foster within my four sons, leaving them well equipped to manage most of life's challenges quite successfully.
I personally believe that the BSA (which is headquartered in Texas, one of America's most conservative states) will continue to adapt like many of U.S. institutions including our Supreme Court; however, as a private organization, they have the right to determine this for themselves.
From our perspective, I think it's essential that we should do our all to promote our hobby/profession with YNs. Is it worthwhile for the ANA to express a stance on this? Perhaps. But declaratively, to hinder anything that has the effect of dramatically reducing the number of YNs throughout the nation, I think is horribly short sited.
<< <i>
I personally believe that the BSA (which is headquartered in Texas, one of America's most conservative states) will continue to adapt like many of U.S. institutions including our Supreme Court; however, as a private organization, they have the right to determine this for themselves.
From our perspective, I think it's essential that we should do our all to promote our hobby/profession with YNs. Is it worthwhile for the ANA to express a stance on this? Perhaps. But declaratively, to hinder anything that has the effect of dramatically reducing the number of YNs throughout the nation, I think is horribly short sited. >>
These are the best points made on this topic. Even Augusta National started admitting women.
<< <i>Rule 1) This is not a public forum. This is a PCGS forum paid for by PCGS and provided for PCGS customers to exchange information regarding collecting US coins. We make the rules this is not a democracy.
Rule 6) This forum is about US Coins. If your post is not directly related to US Coins then this is the wrong forum. Do not post it or your posting privileges may be removed.
Besides these two rules OBVIOUSLY being overlooked, oh, Rule 5 is WELL on it's way to being broached, as well as, oh, just about every rule but Rule 10.
Don Knotts (or whoever is using that alt) should be banned, and immediately following, this thread should be poofed, not just locked (oh, is using the word 'POOF' going to offend the OP?).
Was this thread begun to try to have EVERY rule broken in ONE thread?????
Don Knotts, take the bullet Andy gave you and, ah, never mind. No good bleeding heart liberals!! >>
Good god, given the Forum Cop routine a rest. This topic is most definitely related to U.S. Coins, and is a healthy debate on a relevant social issue. I commend CU for not deleting this thread (yet, hopefully they wont).
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
As a former Boy Scout I applaud the fact that the BSA is still standing up for its rights, as it should.
I've had a complete gut full of people,-gay, straight or otherwise- shoving agendas in my face and saying "you have to deal with us simply because we exist". NO I don't. That's what is cool about this country, at least for now. You have the right to trumpet your beliefs, and I have the right to agree, disagree, or I can choose to ignore you completely.
This isn't just about the Boy Scouts; it's about a group of people who want to force their social and political agendas upon everyone else under the guise of PC and tolerance. Anyone not seeing this is blind.
Anyone not bending to their pressure is labeled intolerant, or more often, "homophobic"...one of the most overused and misused words in the English language.
"Phobic" and "phobia" are synonyms for "fear". One can disapprove of or choose to not associate themselves with a certain lifestyle without being fearful of the practitioners of that lifestyle.
Personally, I could care less what someone does in their bedroom or who they marry. My life won't change either way...
...but to try to force me, you, the BSA, the ANA, or anyone else to subvert their opinions/beliefs and/or forfeit legal constitutional rights in the name of promoting their agenda is just flat out wrong and cannot be allowed. Period.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>I learned much and have many fond memories from my decades as a boy scout and scout leader. In fact the coin collecting merit badge inspired me to continue collecting coins. Looking back I am very thankful that my scout leaders/role models were heterosexuals. Adults are responsible for their personal decisions. Growing up is tough enough without encouraging young boys who are still learning, trying new things, and making mistakes along the way, to choose alternative life styles. I applaud the ANA's decision. >>
So are you telling us your heterosexuality was a conscious choice? That you could just as easily been gay as straight if it weren't for heterosexual scout leaders who steered you straight? >>
I do not believe that this is what is being said at all and to read such things into the response is simply an attempt at twisting his words into validating your position.
He's simply stating that to the best of his remembrances, there were not any openly gay leaders or youth in his scout troop and he's happy that there weren't.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Ignorance, hate and bigotry is lame and most often based on the person's own inadequacy issues. I love the hypocrisy show by some of supporting the ANA as what it does in private as a private instatution is it's right all while judging what grown ups do in their private lives as justification to treat them a certain way. I always wonder when someone is very anti gay if they are really just trying to convince them selves. Me thinks they protest a little too much! >>
Ouch!
The name is LEE!
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<< <i>Rule 1) This is not a public forum. This is a PCGS forum paid for by PCGS and provided for PCGS customers to exchange information regarding collecting US coins. We make the rules this is not a democracy.
Rule 6) This forum is about US Coins. If your post is not directly related to US Coins then this is the wrong forum. Do not post it or your posting privileges may be removed.
Besides these two rules OBVIOUSLY being overlooked, oh, Rule 5 is WELL on it's way to being broached, as well as, oh, just about every rule but Rule 10.
Don Knotts (or whoever is using that alt) should be banned, and immediately following, this thread should be poofed, not just locked (oh, is using the word 'POOF' going to offend the OP?).
Was this thread begun to try to have EVERY rule broken in ONE thread?????
Don Knotts, take the bullet Andy gave you and, ah, never mind. No good bleeding heart liberals!! >>
Good god, given the Forum Cop routine a rest. This topic is most definitely related to U.S. Coins, and is a healthy debate on a relevant social issue. I commend CU for not deleting this thread (yet, hopefully they wont). >>
Forum cop? I think not, simply stating the obvious.....now, if you would, please tell me what coin/coins are being discussed in this thread? I see the words 'homosexuality' and 'heterosexuality' and discussions about who thinks who should/shouldn't be allowed in the BSA, who can/can't be a 'leader', what an organization should/shouldn't do, but NOWHERE do I see coins being discussed, so PLEASE tell me what coin/coins this thread is about, or being talked about????? This thread has NO BUSINESS in this forum. Hell, even the OP hasn't opined since he put his trash out.
This thread is about U.S. coins, huh???? Really??????
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.