Unopened Experts, Urgent Help Needed (update: eBay closed case in my favor :) thanks everyone!)
slum22
Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
I recently purchased a 1979 Topps Unopened Box off of eBay. I had it sent to BBCE and Steve promptly rejected it as resealed. I contacted the seller and he has fought me every step of the way in trying to return the box. I finally opened a case and now eBay needs more information to decide the case. I have a letter from Steve supporting my claim that the box is resealed but eBay also wants pictures and as much proof as possible. I have tried to take pictures of the roller marks (or lack thereof) on the backs of these bad packs and I think I have some good shots. I also took some photos of good roller marks from authentic 70's packs for eBay customer service to have a comparison. My question to the experts on the boards is, does anyone know the correct size of the gum that is in 1979 Topps packs? In addition to being bad at sealing the backs of the packs I believe the packs are also holding the wrong size gum. If anyone could give me the actual measurements of the gum, there are enough pieces of unbroken gum in the box that I think I can measure them through the wrapper.
Thanks in advance,
Steve
Thanks in advance,
Steve
Steve
0
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Second One
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
<< <i>I'm very surprised ebay is making you go through all of that...I've never lost a case in returning boxes of cards that were clearly unopened or tampered with. Is it because the seller is fighting you on it? Baseball 79 right? >>
I just had the exact same thing happen to me last week, same year and everything. The seller would not accept a return knowing Steve rejected the box. They said for all they know I could have searched it and then sent it to Steve so I opened a case and ebay told me to just send it back for a refund with a prepaid label. Odd there making you jump threw hoops.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm very surprised ebay is making you go through all of that...I've never lost a case in returning boxes of cards that were clearly unopened or tampered with. Is it because the seller is fighting you on it? Baseball 79 right? >>
I just had the exact same thing happen to me last week, same year and everything. The seller would not accept a return knowing Steve rejected the box. They said for all they know I could have searched it and then sent it to Steve so I opened a case and ebay told me to just send it back for a refund with a prepaid label. Odd there making you jump threw hoops. >>
Who is the seller? Maybe it's the same as the OP? Same question to OP. I'm surprised that ebay is asking for so much proof. It's not like they would know the difference anyway.
<< <i>It does bring up an interesting point though....suppose a buyer (not the OP, just an example) buys a legit box on ebay, opens it, reseals himself pulling out all the good cards, then sends it to Steve for authentication. BBCE of course rejects it, then the buyer opens a SNAD case. There are enough crooks on ebay to pull this one off. As a seller, I think you are risking losing your item selling it un-authenticated >>
I agree, you sell unopened on eBay you better cross your fingers. There are exceptions but not many
there are tons of loose packs being sold on eBay as we speak. there are several buyers out there who are gathering up these loose packs and building fresh boxes from them, NFASC, of course.
it is now spreading to other years and issues from the late 70s and early 80s, including some football packs which i've seen being recycled through the site.
i'd exercise plenty of caution going forward on this maniacal unopened bonanza. it's getting worse.
I am surprised that a letter from Steve isn't more than sufficient to facilitate a return. I strongly doubt additional pictures would even help an ebay CSR understand what they're even looking for.
I hope you get your refund, Steve. Good luck.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I only care that the packs are authentic and mint. >>
the problem with these box builds is that any one bad pack could and would de-authenticate the rest, even if they're clean. the people doing this handy work have no idea where this stuff came from nor do they care.
with the OP's 1979 Topps Baseball box presented as an easy example, this could be the same or similar box to one i was able to trace directly back to the prior purchases of an eBay seller. it was quite simple to make the assumption, based on the seller's activity, that the box being presented for auction was completely created from loose materials.
there will be no way to completely control this type of activity, and more bad stuff will slip past the authenticators. the dark cloud of tainted product will hover over this until folks get bored and bust 'em open, only to find the same results being discussed right now.
do your research guys. check out your sellers and go back as far as you can to check histories.
the blanket statement about large percentages of unopened being bad is great for running scared, but the level of intelligence amongst these thieves has positioned itself towards market demands. that's us.
with the OP's 1979 Topps Baseball box presented as an easy example, this could be the same or similar box to one i was able to trace directly back to the prior purchases of an eBay seller. it was quite simple to make the assumption, based on the seller's activity, that the box being presented for auction was completely created from loose materials.
there will be no way to completely control this type of activity, and more bad stuff will slip past the authenticators. the dark cloud of tainted product will hover over this until folks get bored and bust 'em open, only to find the same results being discussed right now.
do your research guys. check out your sellers and go back as far as you can to check histories.
the blanket statement about large percentages of unopened being bad is great for running scared, but the level of intelligence amongst these thieves has positioned itself towards market demands. that's us.
It is my understanding that you can no longer check the buying history of ebay users based on recent changes to the search functions and the info given in a buyer's feedback. Is there a way I don't know about?
To the OP- the letter from Steve should be enough. Pictures of roller seals and gum sizes will be completely useless to ebay.
Lee
Does anyone else remember that happening, or did I dream it?
<< <i>
It is my understanding that you can no longer check the buying history of ebay users based on recent changes to the search functions and the info given in a buyer's feedback. Is there a way I don't know about? >>
it's Color By Numbers, Lee. essentially, i'm checking back histories of buyers and sellers and matching up feedback numbers. it's not a perfect system, but it has brought to surface plenty of useful speculative data.
<< <i>It does bring up an interesting point though....suppose a buyer (not the OP, just an example) buys a legit box on ebay, opens it, reseals himself pulling out all the good cards, then sends it to Steve for authentication. BBCE of course rejects it, then the buyer opens a SNAD case. There are enough crooks on ebay to pull this one off. As a seller, I think you are risking losing your item selling it un-authenticated >>
I know someone on here had mentioned adding BBCE as a confirmed shipping address on their eBay account. I think this would address any chain of custody issues from the buyer's side (no chance for the buyer to swap/reseal packs prior to authentication), but don't think there's much that a seller can do to protect themselves other than getting all boxes authenticated prior to selling.
<< <i>Remember a few years ago ebay temporarily banned selling uncertified wax for just this kind of reason? But then they seemed to just forget about it.
Does anyone else remember that happening, or did I dream it? >>
Found it!
Ebay Bans Raw Wax (2009)
Steve, If I were you I would call Ebay and tell them that the you never had the box in your hand before BBCE rejected it. They can check what address you had it shipped to. The customer service rep can read all the emails between you and the seller as long as they were sent through Ebay.
Hopefully Ebay will find in your favor and give the refund. PLEASE give the seller a negative feedback once the case is closed.
James
<< <i>
<< <i>Remember a few years ago ebay temporarily banned selling uncertified wax for just this kind of reason? But then they seemed to just forget about it.
Does anyone else remember that happening, or did I dream it? >>
Found it!
Ebay Bans Raw Wax (2009) >>
I actually found that link humorous as it looked like most of the items were low dollar non sport wax
Exactly. With boxes and wax packs, you just don't know what's inside. This is a scammer's dream come true because it could be years before a wrapped box or a slabbed wax pack gets opened, if it ever does.
I will pass on this sealed box frenzy.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>I just don't remember hearing when/why the ban was lifted. Or was it just never enforced? >>
Such a ban would apply to bbce product as well as it is not considered TPG. I don't think such a ban is practical as there are legitimate items being sold, too. Ebay allows raw coins to be sold. I can't see them restricting sales of anything not TPG. There are many otems not graded that are perfectly fine, too. They won't even prohibit sales of wrappers, either.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Just wait til people start creating bogus BBCE shrink wrap. Anyone who keeps those boxes sealed will never know.
Exactly. With boxes and wax packs, you just don't know what's inside. This is a scammer's dream come true because it could be years before a wrapped box or a slabbed wax pack gets opened, if it ever does.
I will pass on this sealed box frenzy. >>
Totally disagree that it's a scammers dream. I would agree though that its a scammers dream to prey on innocent people that don't take the time to make the proper purchase. I was taken pretty hard in the past by scammers so I know. Anyone well informed can totally enjoy the unopened market in all its glory.
Authentic unopened packs and boxes, are thrilling, and exciting because of the total mystery...and one that can take you back the day as well...I don't know one person in our hobby that doesn't get a thrill out of opening a pack in anticipation of what can be inside. Nothing that is more tantalizing then pulling a hof'er as you slowly sift through the cards...especially when the first couple cards are well centered with sharp corners...wow it's good.
Almost every box I own has come directly from the BBCE and the boxes I've ripped from them have all been outstanding. I would love if my buyers opened the boxes I sell them...they are beauties.
In the end, all you have to do is check for yourself if you know what you're looking for. My 12 year old son and wife can identify if a pack has been resealed...I'm sorry to everyone that thinks it's rocket science...it's really not. Think I'm opening some 80's wax tonight...just 3 or 4...last night pulled a real solid Nolan Ryan from an 81 pack..fun..sorry for the long one, I'm out.
<< <i>Just wait til people start creating bogus BBCE shrink wrap. Anyone who keeps those boxes sealed will never know. >>
What do you mean just wait???
<< <i>
<< <i>I just don't remember hearing when/why the ban was lifted. Or was it just never enforced? >>
Such a ban would apply to bbce product as well as it is not considered TPG. I don't think such a ban is practical as there are legitimate items being sold, too. Ebay allows raw coins to be sold. I can't see them restricting sales of anything not TPG. There are many otems not graded that are perfectly fine, too. They won't even prohibit sales of wrappers, either. >>
It's too bad. When I complained about the resealed 1979 wax pack I won off eBay, they were, um, less than helpful. When I told them the seller was still selling resealed '79 packs, the only thing they offered to do was to view the auction listing and photo and pull the auctions if they were deemed fraudulent. Of course I informed them the seller was using stock photos and even if he wasn't, it's hard to authenticate wax from a photo.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just don't remember hearing when/why the ban was lifted. Or was it just never enforced? >>
Such a ban would apply to bbce product as well as it is not considered TPG. I don't think such a ban is practical as there are legitimate items being sold, too. Ebay allows raw coins to be sold. I can't see them restricting sales of anything not TPG. There are many otems not graded that are perfectly fine, too. They won't even prohibit sales of wrappers, either. >>
While they do allow for raw coins, many of the key coins that are not graded are taken down if they are of questionable authenticity. I doubt that will happen often on cards, even though it will occasionally