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The "stipulations" coin show report
piecesofme
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Went to a show today and these were the best offers out there. They all seemed to have a stipulation, you'll see what I mean. Keep in mind these were the best offers.
ASE's...for solid date rolls, $410. For mixed date rolls, $400. Individually purchased, $22 but had to buy at least five.
MS69 NGC/PCGS ASE's...$27, but had to buy at least 2.
90% Dimes or Quarters... $14 x face. For Halves, $14.25 x face.
cull Morgan/Peace Dollars... $20, by the roll, not being sold individually, not even for $1 more a coin.
XF 1921 Morgans & XF common date Peace Dollars... $24, could buy as little as wanted to.
G/VG pre 1921 Morgans...$24, could buy as little as wanted to.
Roll of AU 1921 Morgans...$595, would not allow to cherry pick roll, had to buy the whole roll.
1/10 AGE's...$140 buy 1 or buy all 22 he had for that price. No volume discount if all were purchased.
1 oz generic (OPM, Silvertowne, etc) bars...$20. Again, no volume discount.
10 oz silver bars (OPM, National, US Assay)... $205, would not budge down to $200.
10 oz Engelhards...Only 1 dealer out of the roughly 25 that were that had any. He had 2 bars and wanted $250/bar.
I live just outside of Chicago, so this were the best prices at the show I was at today for this area.
ASE's...for solid date rolls, $410. For mixed date rolls, $400. Individually purchased, $22 but had to buy at least five.
MS69 NGC/PCGS ASE's...$27, but had to buy at least 2.
90% Dimes or Quarters... $14 x face. For Halves, $14.25 x face.
cull Morgan/Peace Dollars... $20, by the roll, not being sold individually, not even for $1 more a coin.
XF 1921 Morgans & XF common date Peace Dollars... $24, could buy as little as wanted to.
G/VG pre 1921 Morgans...$24, could buy as little as wanted to.
Roll of AU 1921 Morgans...$595, would not allow to cherry pick roll, had to buy the whole roll.
1/10 AGE's...$140 buy 1 or buy all 22 he had for that price. No volume discount if all were purchased.
1 oz generic (OPM, Silvertowne, etc) bars...$20. Again, no volume discount.
10 oz silver bars (OPM, National, US Assay)... $205, would not budge down to $200.
10 oz Engelhards...Only 1 dealer out of the roughly 25 that were that had any. He had 2 bars and wanted $250/bar.
I live just outside of Chicago, so this were the best prices at the show I was at today for this area.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>why somebody would pay those prices is beyond me, many places to get it elsewhere for a heck of a lot less >>
Agree. Those prices are unrealistic for the current market. I'm guessing those dealers are buried in silver and would rather sit on it rather than take a loss. That's why I've been mostly buying from on line sources.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>why somebody would pay those prices is beyond me, many places to get it elsewhere for a heck of a lot less >>
According to what stuff sells for on eBay it appears that plenty of people are willing to pay that much and more [5 ASEs for $113.50 = $22.70 each]. Apparently they weren't at the show where they could have gotten them for less. You can't really blame someone for not wanting to lose $$. The way things are now if you're not careful, you can be underwater 10 minutes after you buy something.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>
<< <i>why somebody would pay those prices is beyond me, many places to get it elsewhere for a heck of a lot less >>
Agree. Those prices are unrealistic for the current market. I'm guessing those dealers are buried in silver and would rather sit on it rather than take a loss. That's why I've been mostly buying from on line sources. >>
People pay those prices if they want to buy that day. Many want a cash transaction (no Internet, no mail order). Those are the prices for that area of the country. Rents, security costs, paperwork burden in the Chicago area, mean typical dealer overhead is more than folks from smaller towns or other areas of the country. Demand might also be higher there than in other places. Driving around visiting local shops in the same metropolitan area probably won't get a person any better prices, and also burn gas and time.
So what is the choice? Don't buy. Wait for the next show. Or walk the floor, find the best price and buy. At the next show, the overhead is similar so the prices might be about the same, relative to spot silver.
Thanks for the report.
<< <i>why somebody would pay those prices is beyond me, many places to get it elsewhere for a heck of a lot less >>
So what is a "fair" price for a dealer to be selling ASEs for at a show when spot is $16.91?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Very little, and what I did see was for certified coins, nothing really in the bullion arena.
The next show I'm going to next Sunday is a suburb of Chicago and I guarantee those asking prices will be even higher than these reported that were at a show in IN 35 miles S.E. of Chicago. It's freaking brutal around here now. Dealers still want $20+ Spot silver values for all the non-collectible stuff like this. They're out of their damn minds. They have "product" but are unwilling to sell unless it's at these minimums...which I will add again, were the BEST prices I could find walking the floor.
Demand might also be higher there than in other places.
Good point, but not the case. The show was dead. I hit 3 local dealers over the past week and I was the only customer in each one the whole time I was there. The "general public" appears to rather buy when prices are rising as opposed to falling. There is no demand to speak of imo, yet dealers are asking as if there was.
<< <i>Online deals are better, but shipping costs add up too.... Cheers, RickO >>
The 5 for $113.50 that I referenced above could have been bought for $101.90 delivered i.e. free shipping from JMBullion. Even for those places that charge a modest shipping, it can be almost negated if one buys 5 or more rolls.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Silver is horribly under valued and the Dollar is extremely overbought. Silver is a coiled spring and could bounce right back into the $20's as quickly as it fell out of it the way the modern market works
What say you to the dealer if you were me?
I didn't say anything other than, that would be nice.
<< <i>Had a dealer tell me this yesterday, there was more but this was the jist, I recollected it as best as I could.
Silver is horribly under valued and the Dollar is extremely overbought. Silver is a coiled spring and could bounce right back into the $20's as quickly as it fell out of it the way the modern market works
What say you to the dealer if you were me?
I didn't say anything other than, that would be nice. >>
I'd smile and say, "I hope you are right". What might happen won't change what has happened.
When ones paper price that they only believe is real when they are trying to actually buy physical doesn't work for them, they might have to try another plan, or go without...
<< <i>The simplicity is he who holds the gold, makes the rules/price...
When ones paper price that they only believe is real when they are trying to actually buy physical doesn't work for them, they might have to try another plan, or go without... >>
This ......
If you were a dealer and dropped $50,000 on physical and the next day spot drops a buck are you supposed to sell at a loss?
Some would say once spot dropped you already "LOST" the money which is true one one level and nonsense on another.
If I'm building a house and I have the choice of either work at a monetary loss just so I can keep working (need cash flow) or refuse to work and have no income then I have to decide which makes more sense . It's not a tough choice really, I'll go float in my kayak rather than work for free .
As a dealer if there is no rush to sell why not wait out the dip if you think it will be short term? If you think that way then you either put up a sign that says "out of stock" so you don't hurt anyone's feelings or you post things to sell at a price you can accept and don't sweat it if nothing is moving.
Dealers do have some measure of pricing power they aren't forced to lose money just because JP morgan decides they need spot to be lower on the 3rd Sunday of the month .
If when silver spot is dropping you want to buy then you must feel its undervalued. You can't honestly disagree with a dealer that feels the same way.
<< <i>If when silver spot is dropping you want to buy then you must feel its undervalued. You can't honestly disagree with a dealer that feels the same way. >>
Especially when they won't even sell there own phyzz for what they are complaining about someone else won't either, lol, great psychological study...
I hit 3 local dealers over the past week and I was the only customer in each one the whole time I was there. The "general public" appears to rather buy when prices are rising as opposed to falling. There is no demand to speak of imo, yet dealers are asking as if there was.
I do not know what your time is worth, or your blood pressure, to make trying to buy silver this way worthwhile, seems you might just be spending the money you save by shopping around and bargaining instead in commute time, haggling time, and gasoline and wear and tear on the car.
As far as the prices, anyone who has been anywhere knows that if you can't make a deal there and then for something you want, you either pay up or go without.
If prices aren't negotiable to what you want to pay, it makes little sense to me to get upset about it and lament about what others "should" do.
I do not think I "should" have to pay outrageous prices for food and drinks at tables with ocean views, but I either pay them or I don't. What I never do is whine about it.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
You don't know me by now? If I see BS, I'm going to call it...and lately, I've been busy with all the BS on here. This place has turned into a joke, and if you guys are honest with yourselves, you would admit to contributing to the demise and lack of credibility it now has. Other sites I'm on refer to this as the red headed step child silver site now.
Sunbday BS calling out concluded...go back to your basements and pick the food that missed your mouth off your 3 day in a row worn sweatshirt.
ASEs at $21, in flips. No real volume.
Generic at $18.50 for 1 oz and $185 for 10 ozers.
U-pick Morgans at $23.50
<< <i>who the F is whining or complaining? It's all what you're reading into it. I just f'ing reported what I saw at a coin show and what I see when I visit local dealers. What a bunch of a-holes and trolls. This is why I really hate this place, people with no damn lives thinking they are arrogant enough to read into a simple f'ing coin show report that has 0 complaints or whining stated, only what was seen, and think they wont be called out.
You don't know me by now? If I see BS, I'm going to call it...and lately, I've been busy with all the BS on here. This place has turned into a joke, and if you guys are honest with yourselves, you would admit to contributing to the demise and lack of credibility it now has. Other sites I'm on refer to this as the red headed step child silver site now.
Sunbday BS calling out concluded...go back to your basements and pick the food that missed your mouth off your 3 day in a row worn sweatshirt. >>
Spot silver must be down. The most obvious simple fix is for you to stop visiting this site.
You mean I've been duped all along?
Or for people to realize the difference between whining and complaining, and simple unbiased reporting of what was seen and experienced over the last week while actually getting out of the house and going to shows and shops...unlike alot here that live in their basement and think whatever JM Bullion, Apmex, etc. is selling items for must be the going rate. Not really that hard. There was no need whatsoever to come at me over simply saying what I've seen at a recent show and visits to shops, but yet some couldn't help themself...but I'm the bad guy right? I'm the worthless soul deadening provoking troll, right?
Gimme a break!
I did, only 1 out of the 4 I offered .999 silver to would pay Spot. The other 3 were paying $1 back of Spot.
They want to sell at what are still $20-23 Spot values (figuring in a premium), but buy $1 back of it. I'm all for trying to make a buck, but really? takes nads to even make that offer imo.
<< <i>Did you ask what they were buying at? Might have been an opportunity to sell to them at more than you can buy for on the information super highway
I did, only 1 out of the 4 I offered .999 silver to would pay Spot. The other 3 were paying $1 back of Spot.
They want to sell at what are still $20-23 Spot values (figuring in a premium), but buy $1 back of it. I'm all for trying to make a buck, but really? takes nads to even make that offer imo. >>
I don't think it takes stones, if that's what they need to buy and sell at, it's their business. Your option is to choose to sell, buy or walk away. You chose to walk away, so all you're out is your time and the effort to communicate. I highly doubt their offers were personal, just how they conduct their business. If that's the market in that area, it is what it is...
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The market needs many of these Mom and Pop and Pawnshops to go under. Seeing another big bullion house fold would be nice also. Which one will it be? >>
They will not go under, the big houses r a different story...
<< <i>The market needs many of these Mom and Pop and Pawnshops to go under. Seeing another big bullion house fold would be nice also. Which one will it be? >>
I believe we are already seeing a lot of the business that jumped in when they figured out PMs were the flavor of the month going away. The SBSS brand and all of those that jumped in on the "end the Fed" fad are already scaled way back, gone or will be gone soon enough.
I believe there is a place for Mom and Pop shops and there is a need for Pawnshops, whether you want to believe it or not.
Why would it be nice to see another lg bullion house go under? You do understand that less competition generally means bad things for consumers?
<< <i>
<< <i>Did you ask what they were buying at? Might have been an opportunity to sell to them at more than you can buy for on the information super highway
I did, only 1 out of the 4 I offered .999 silver to would pay Spot. The other 3 were paying $1 back of Spot.
They want to sell at what are still $20-23 Spot values (figuring in a premium), but buy $1 back of it. I'm all for trying to make a buck, but really? takes nads to even make that offer imo. >>
I don't think it takes stones, if that's what they need to buy and sell at, it's their business. Your option is to choose to sell, buy or walk away. You chose to walk away, so all you're out is your time and the effort to communicate. I highly doubt their offers were personal, just how they conduct their business. If that's the market in that area, it is what it is... >>
Maybe he should move to a more bullion friendly area.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876