Options
David Hall Rare Coins
BWCoin
Posts: 92
I was looking on DavidHall.com and on the "about us" page it says:
"..David Hall Rare Coins (DHRC) has specialized exclusively in gem quality rare coins and has consistently led the worldwide market in the sale of these treasures. As one of the nation's largest rare coin dealers, with approximately 1,100 authorized associate dealers DHRC has helped build many of the major collections in existence today."
What does it mean 1,100 authorized dealers? Do they have 1,100 dealers that work for them?
"..David Hall Rare Coins (DHRC) has specialized exclusively in gem quality rare coins and has consistently led the worldwide market in the sale of these treasures. As one of the nation's largest rare coin dealers, with approximately 1,100 authorized associate dealers DHRC has helped build many of the major collections in existence today."
What does it mean 1,100 authorized dealers? Do they have 1,100 dealers that work for them?
0
Comments
1,100 are licensed PCGS dealers.
peacockcoins
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
<< <i>Whatever happened to seperation of church and state? >>
NGC happened...but PCGS is still King and rightfully so IMHO
Erik
<< <i>It might mean that DHRC is one of 1100 dealers who are authorized to submit coins to PCGS. As such, an association >>
Why is that a conflict?
you're putting words in someone's mouth.
<< <i>Whatever happened to seperation of church and state? >>
BHNC #203
<< <i>Whatever happened to seperation of church and state? >>
Bite your tongue...
Big Brother is watching.
<< <i>wouldnt that be some sort of conflict of interest as well? just wondering is all >>
I don't want to belabor the point but I will just offer my thought for what is worth. I am an operational auditor by trade, so I might have some knowledge about conflicts of interest.
A TPG is created. In order to be successful, it has to be created and nurtured by professional numismatists some if not all of which happen to be dealers in numismatics. While on the face of it, it may look like a conflict of interest, I believe that the track record would lead one to believe that the owners have been able to keep their business dealings separate from the grading business. Otherwise the TPG could not have survived and been so successful over 3 decades. Perhaps the owners have been able to keep the operations end of the business at arms length and have put effective controls within operations.
<< <i>Is David Hall rare coins a part of PCGS? to have 1,100 authorized dealers >>
What. Are you just trying to be difficult?
There is a difference between 1,100 Authorized Dealers and 1,100 Authorized Associate Dealers.
BTW, I have access to the exact same 1,100 Authorized Associate Dealers.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>It might mean that DHRC is one of 1100 dealers who are authorized to submit coins to PCGS. As such, an association >>
What it means, is that DHRC can "utilize" the abilities of those 1,100 Authorized Associate Dealers in that, from what I understand, David Hall Rare Coins does not submit coins to PCGS for grading.
This has been clearly stated by David Hall himself on multiple occasions.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>wouldnt that be some sort of conflict of interest as well? just wondering is all >>
I don't want to belabor the point but I will just offer my thought for what is worth. I am an operational auditor by trade, so I might have some knowledge about conflicts of interest.
A TPG is created. In order to be successful, it has to be created and nurtured by professional numismatists some if not all of which happen to be dealers in numismatics. While on the face of it, it may look like a conflict of interest, I believe that the track record would lead one to believe that the owners have been able to keep their business dealings separate from the grading business. Otherwise the TPG could not have survived and been so successful over 3 decades. Perhaps the owners have been able to keep the operations end of the business at arms length and have put effective controls within operations. >>
Do some research.
Once someone begins to grade coins professionally, they are no longer allowed to operate as coin dealers as that is a direct conflict of interest and, according to the late Cameron Kieffer, is what Cameron experienced when he was hired by ICG.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>wouldnt that be some sort of conflict of interest as well? just wondering is all >>
I don't want to belabor the point but I will just offer my thought for what is worth. I am an operational auditor by trade, so I might have some knowledge about conflicts of interest.
A TPG is created. In order to be successful, it has to be created and nurtured by professional numismatists some if not all of which happen to be dealers in numismatics. While on the face of it, it may look like a conflict of interest, I believe that the track record would lead one to believe that the owners have been able to keep their business dealings separate from the grading business. Otherwise the TPG could not have survived and been so successful over 3 decades. Perhaps the owners have been able to keep the operations end of the business at arms length and have put effective controls within operations. >>
Do some research.
Once someone begins to grade coins professionally, they are no longer allowed to operate as coin dealers as that is a direct conflict of interest and, according to the late Cameron Kieffer, is what Cameron experienced when he was hired by ICG. >>
Conflict of interest is a state of mind above and beyond the paper trail. There are two significant risks a professional must manage. Those are financial risks and reputation risks. A real professional is not going to risk financial ruin or a loss of reputation for a short term financial gain. Apparently this TPG has been able to manage those risks. I'm sorry if you don't agree.
<< <i>I am a CPA with heavy audit experience. There is no conflict for David, in fact or appearance. The separation of duties and legal associations pass any reasonable test. Otherwise, people much smarter than we are in this area would have advised him to change things longgggg ago. As you stated, it apparently works well for him irregardless. >>
Thank you
and a few of us are sorry you don't understand.
As you stated, it apparently works well for him irregardless.
............and on a humorous note, using the word "irregardless" makes me absolutely crazy. I heard some comedian say the only use for the word might be at a time such as the Three Mile Island catastrophe when the Pennsylvania Governor called in the National Guard. when they all showed up at Pittsburgh it naturally left Erie-guard-less.
<< <i>I am a CPA with heavy audit experience. There is no conflict for David, in fact or appearance. >>
I'm sure there is no conflict from a legal standpoint. However, the "appearance" of conflict is hard to avoid. It goes with the territory.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>wouldnt that be some sort of conflict of interest as well? just wondering is all >>
I don't want to belabor the point but I will just offer my thought for what is worth. I am an operational auditor by trade, so I might have some knowledge about conflicts of interest.
A TPG is created. In order to be successful, it has to be created and nurtured by professional numismatists some if not all of which happen to be dealers in numismatics. While on the face of it, it may look like a conflict of interest, I believe that the track record would lead one to believe that the owners have been able to keep their business dealings separate from the grading business. Otherwise the TPG could not have survived and been so successful over 3 decades. Perhaps the owners have been able to keep the operations end of the business at arms length and have put effective controls within operations. >>
Do some research.
Once someone begins to grade coins professionally, they are no longer allowed to operate as coin dealers as that is a direct conflict of interest and, according to the late Cameron Kieffer, is what Cameron experienced when he was hired by ICG. >>
Conflicts of interest are not always defined in a legalistic way. Whereas no law may broken by someone who deals on both or perhaps many, sides of a transaction, the market will come to understand the conflict is not in their best interest. Commonly investment bankers are also stock brokers, and many consider this a conflict of interest. And I agree as I have been "promoted" on some stock deals in the past where my stock broker was much more than a middle man in a transaction. They were not operating illegally, but the were not operating in my best interests as they alleged. I terminated my relationship with this broker for just this reason.
TPG's seem to all have been dealers at some point in time and some continue to be dealers today. This practice was questioned by some very major players in our hobby over 10 years ago as you provided in your link. I found it interesting that TDN went 0/12 on a crossover submittal. But a submittal on the same coins by B&M was 6/12. This is not good for business and only reflects that the two major grading services and the ANA have no agreement on grading standards, and this is definitely not good for our hobby.
But to the point of the OP, there does exist a market acceptability issue with Mr. Hall operating as a dealer and as a TPG. I think most of us like him for creating PCGS and the grading standards PCGS represents. HRH should not grade and deal in the same Universe, even though it may not be a legal conflict of interest.
OINK
Latin American Collection
<< <i>I seriously question the intelligence of some people on this forum >>
...on a much higher note...Coach Dantonio has Sparty rolling heads and ranked #10 in both polls this week
Erik
<< <i>
<< <i>I seriously question the intelligence of some people on this forum >>
...on a much higher note...Coach Dantonio has Sparty rolling heads and ranked #10 in both polls this week
Erik >>
Aaaand U of M is 2-3
Latin American Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I seriously question the intelligence of some people on this forum >>
...on a much higher note...Coach Dantonio has Sparty rolling heads and ranked #10 in both polls this week
Erik >>
Aaaand U of M is 2-3 >>
...no love lost here buddy, we here in Aztec country look at Coach Brady Hoke as a trader no matter what happens...bet he gets fired before the first Bowl Game starts in Dec
Erik
are you confusing Hoke with the investment banker that the NutKase mentioned or did you mean he was a "traitor" to Aztec fans??
<< <i>we here in Aztec country look at Coach Brady Hoke as a trader no matter what happens
are you confusing Hoke with the investment banker that the NutKase mentioned or did you mean he was a "traitor" to Aztec fans??
It was probably spell check gone awry.
There are some lovely coins on that website!
<< <i>
<< <i>wouldnt that be some sort of conflict of interest as well? just wondering is all >>
I don't want to belabor the point but I will just offer my thought for what is worth. I am an operational auditor by trade, so I might have some knowledge about conflicts of interest.
A TPG is created. In order to be successful, it has to be created and nurtured by professional numismatists some if not all of which happen to be dealers in numismatics. While on the face of it, it may look like a conflict of interest, I believe that the track record would lead one to believe that the owners have been able to keep their business dealings separate from the grading business. Otherwise the TPG could not have survived and been so successful over 3 decades. Perhaps the owners have been able to keep the operations end of the business at arms length and have put effective controls within operations. >>
understood that way and taken as such. its all good
That gentleman has always had a good eye.
It is well established that his ethics are beyond reproach.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am a CPA with heavy audit experience. There is no conflict for David, in fact or appearance. >>
I'm sure there is no conflict from a legal standpoint. However, the "appearance" of conflict is hard to avoid. It goes with the territory. >>
Shamika, good point. To clarify, I was speaking from an AICPA Organization definition of "appearance", not a lay definition. Sorry for the confusion. Doug
As you stated, it apparently works well for him irregardless.
............and on a humorous note, using the word "irregardless" makes me absolutely crazy. I heard some comedian say the only use for the word might be at a time such as the Three Mile Island catastrophe when the Pennsylvania Governor called in the National Guard. when they all showed up at Pittsburgh it naturally left Erie-guard-less. >>
Dang Keets, I didn't know that until just now (I googled it)...and here I was feeling all smart n stuff! lol
<< <i>we here in Aztec country look at Coach Brady Hoke as a trader no matter what happens
are you confusing Hoke with the investment banker that the NutKase mentioned or did you mean he was a "traitor" to Aztec fans??
...lol...wish I saw this a couple nights ago, as I may have had an answer for you buddy...I'll go ahead and man up and not blame it on spell check but rather just the late night tricks John Daniels plays on me more times than not
Erik
<< <i>
<< <i>we here in Aztec country look at Coach Brady Hoke as a trader no matter what happens
are you confusing Hoke with the investment banker that the NutKase mentioned or did you mean he was a "traitor" to Aztec fans??
...lol...wish I saw this a couple nights ago, as I may have had an answer for you buddy...I'll go ahead and man up and not blame it on spell check but rather just the late night tricks John Daniels plays on me more times than not
Erik >>
John or Jack
Latin American Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>we here in Aztec country look at Coach Brady Hoke as a trader no matter what happens
are you confusing Hoke with the investment banker that the NutKase mentioned or did you mean he was a "traitor" to Aztec fans??
...lol...wish I saw this a couple nights ago, as I may have had an answer for you buddy...I'll go ahead and man up and not blame it on spell check but rather just the late night tricks John Daniels plays on me more times than not
Erik >>
John or Jack
"...he may be Jack to you son but when you've known him as long as I have
Scent of a Woman
Erik
Latin American Collection