Sunnywood, Legend/Morphy started out at 15%, but went to 17.5% because they said they were at a disadvantage when sellers negotiated for a cut of the buyer's fee. Apparently there's not a lot of fat on the bone that can be cut when running an auction house. By the way, I just finished a superb book on the modern art market entitled The $12 Million Stuffed Shark that discussed how the major art auction houses (Christie's and Sotheby's) often offer a guarantee (of minimum realized aggregate prices) to consignors as opposed to negotiating commissions. Sometimes these guarantees are even hedged via third parties to diffuse some risk. It was a fascinating study of marketplace dynamics whether or not one appreciates modern art (which I do).
1) Think about this thread before paying a strong premium for a coin, unless you're in the TDN end of the pool. 2) As Sunnywood wrote, some consignors got 107% of hammer when the buying fee was 15%. It depends on what you are consigning and how badly the auction house wants your coins. 3) If you have dealer contacts who specialize in your material, speak with them. I have done this, and the spread is typically between 10%-15% on the coins I sold to them.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
In the end the price plus any buyers premium is what the buyer paid. That is the sale price.
As a seller what ever you net is what you sold it.
Coins are far easier to sell than many other collectable fields but not all coins are the same. An MS65 Morgan 1881-S (unless its a monster toner) is a generic coin and there is little reason to pay any meaningful commission at auction and may be sold to a dealer for more net proceeds than an auction.
Where an item is rare than the bidding war is where a seller wins but then again the best #1 Action Comics sold for more than $3 Million on eBay. I would say the comic sold itself. The venue was just the means to an end and the seller got more for the comic as the buyer did not factor a premium.
Does anyone not adjust their bid for a buyers premium? At least when they were 10% the math was a bit easier.
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Eh. I don't think the percentages really matter. The buyers figure them in. In the end, the consignor gets some money and the auction house gets a cut. How much is up to the seller and auction house to negotiate.
Does it really matter if the buyer's fee is 50% and the seller gets 140 hammer? Or the buyer's fee is 10% and the seller gets 102.7 hammer? Seller gets the same either way.
It's like buying one share of Apple before the split, or ten shares afterwords. You still own the same percentage of the company.
When deciding what the lowest I'm willing to take when selling a coin, I research current market values and subtract what an auction house or eBay fees may be and subtract that. It seems that when a dealer is offered that kind of room they bite and I don't have to deal with the hastle accociated with auction.
I don't sell much really, just when I get a duplicate or something. I'm really holding out for when I have the notion to get a booth someday and find retail customers myself. That actually sounds like a good time to me.
People who are collecting are not concerned with the "thoughts" that go through my head almost 99% of the time and that's why I come here to experience these problems first hand.
<< <i>they are usually annoyed to find out that the marked price is not what they end up paying. But they don't stop buying groceries.
where do you live that food is taxed?? >>
There are plenty of items one can buy at a grocery store that are taxed. Liquor and cleaning products, for example. But his example of a grocery store was rather arbitrary. There are all kinds of businesses where the advertised price is not what you end up paying. Car dealerships come to mind. They stay in business because "hidden" surcharges are standard practice across the industry. At least with auction houses, the surcharges are known up front.
In the end the price plus any buyers premium is what the buyer paid. That is the sale price.
Does anyone not adjust their bid for a buyers premium? At least when they were 10% the math was a bit easier. >>
I had a dealer try to explain to me not too long ago how when using auction results to price a coin you had to factor out the buyers fee and that was the actual price the coin sold for. I wasn't really sure if he really thought that, or if he was just hoping he could convince me of that. I didn't really want to argue with him about it so I just nodded my head and smiled.
JPST - Obviously the scenario was you selling the coin (to him or potentially to him) not vice versa ... I would suspect he knew exactly what he was doing ...
In the end the price plus any buyers premium is what the buyer paid. That is the sale price.
As a seller what ever you net is what you sold it.
Coins are far easier to sell than many other collectable fields but not all coins are the same. An MS65 Morgan 1881-S (unless its a monster toner) is a generic coin and there is little reason to pay any meaningful commission at auction and may be sold to a dealer for more net proceeds than an auction.
Where an item is rare than the bidding war is where a seller wins but then again the best #1 Action Comics sold for more than $3 Million on eBay. I would say the comic sold itself. The venue was just the means to an end and the seller got more for the comic as the buyer did not factor a premium.
Does anyone not adjust their bid for a buyers premium? At least when they were 10% the math was a bit easier. >>
Sometimes it works, other times not depending upon bid increment, how nice the coin is, etc.
Easy peasy way if your max price for a coin is $700 is X + .175X = $700 1.175 X = $700 so X = $700 divided by 1.175 or about $596 as your maximum bid. You might want to make a table of final price vs bid price in $50 increments.
I don't understand why the auction houses don't just cut to the chase and charge 100% commissions. Seems so much simpler. The sellers could benefit.
Consider: No more buy sell profit accounting paperwork and headaches. No capital gains taxes to pay. No inheritance taxes to pay. No more coin or homeowner insurance expense hassles. Cheaper attorney wills and probate fees. No more security and storage costs. No more safe deposit fees and lost keys. No problem trying to find a way to split a coin in half to leave to your kids. And.. less worry about leaving money to your kids to spend on drugs, booze, and mistresses.
After them auction boys get all them coins gathered up, they can start selling them as "investment coins" to the next generation, and then do it all over again. Wash rinse and repeat. Could work.
Comments
a disadvantage when sellers negotiated for a cut of the buyer's fee. Apparently there's not a lot of fat
on the bone that can be cut when running an auction house. By the way, I just finished a superb book
on the modern art market entitled The $12 Million Stuffed Shark that discussed how the major
art auction houses (Christie's and Sotheby's) often offer a guarantee (of minimum realized aggregate
prices) to consignors as opposed to negotiating commissions. Sometimes these guarantees are
even hedged via third parties to diffuse some risk. It was a fascinating study of marketplace dynamics
whether or not one appreciates modern art (which I do).
2) As Sunnywood wrote, some consignors got 107% of hammer when the buying fee was 15%. It depends on what you are consigning and how badly the auction house wants your coins.
3) If you have dealer contacts who specialize in your material, speak with them. I have done this, and the spread is typically between 10%-15% on the coins I sold to them.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
In the end the price plus any buyers premium is what the buyer paid. That is the sale price.
As a seller what ever you net is what you sold it.
Coins are far easier to sell than many other collectable fields but not all coins are the same. An MS65 Morgan 1881-S (unless its a monster toner) is a generic coin and there is little reason to pay any meaningful commission at auction and may be sold to a dealer for more net proceeds than an auction.
Where an item is rare than the bidding war is where a seller wins but then again the best #1 Action Comics sold for more than $3 Million on eBay. I would say the comic sold itself. The venue was just the means to an end and the seller got more for the comic as the buyer did not factor a premium.
Does anyone not adjust their bid for a buyers premium? At least when they were 10% the math was a bit easier.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
marked price is not what they end up paying. But they don't stop buying groceries.
where do you live that food is taxed??
Does it really matter if the buyer's fee is 50% and the seller gets 140 hammer? Or the buyer's fee is 10% and the seller gets 102.7 hammer? Seller gets the same either way.
It's like buying one share of Apple before the split, or ten shares afterwords. You still own the same percentage of the company.
I don't sell much really, just when I get a duplicate or something. I'm really holding out for when I have the notion to get a booth someday and find retail customers myself. That actually sounds like a good time to me.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>they are usually annoyed to find out that the
marked price is not what they end up paying. But they don't stop buying groceries.
where do you live that food is taxed?? >>
There are plenty of items one can buy at a grocery store that are taxed. Liquor and cleaning products,
for example. But his example of a grocery store was rather arbitrary. There are all kinds of businesses
where the advertised price is not what you end up paying. Car dealerships come to mind. They stay
in business because "hidden" surcharges are standard practice across the industry. At least
with auction houses, the surcharges are known up front.
<< <i>You can play with the numbers all you want.
In the end the price plus any buyers premium is what the buyer paid. That is the sale price.
Does anyone not adjust their bid for a buyers premium? At least when they were 10% the math was a bit easier. >>
I had a dealer try to explain to me not too long ago how when using auction results to price a coin you had to factor out the buyers fee and that was the actual price the coin sold for. I wasn't really sure if he really thought that, or if he was just hoping he could convince me of that. I didn't really want to argue with him about it so I just nodded my head and smiled.
My Ebay Store
<< <i>they are usually annoyed to find out that the
marked price is not what they end up paying. But they don't stop buying groceries.
where do you live that food is taxed?? >>
North Carolina taxes all food sales.
<< <i>You can play with the numbers all you want.
In the end the price plus any buyers premium is what the buyer paid. That is the sale price.
As a seller what ever you net is what you sold it.
Coins are far easier to sell than many other collectable fields but not all coins are the same. An MS65 Morgan 1881-S (unless its a monster toner) is a generic coin and there is little reason to pay any meaningful commission at auction and may be sold to a dealer for more net proceeds than an auction.
Where an item is rare than the bidding war is where a seller wins but then again the best #1 Action Comics sold for more than $3 Million on eBay. I would say the comic sold itself. The venue was just the means to an end and the seller got more for the comic as the buyer did not factor a premium.
Does anyone not adjust their bid for a buyers premium? At least when they were 10% the math was a bit easier. >>
Sometimes it works, other times not depending upon bid increment, how nice the coin is, etc.
Easy peasy way if your max price for a coin is $700 is X + .175X = $700 1.175 X = $700 so X = $700 divided by 1.175 or about $596 as your maximum bid. You might want to make a table of final price vs bid price in $50 increments.
Seems so much simpler.
The sellers could benefit.
Consider:
No more buy sell profit accounting paperwork and headaches.
No capital gains taxes to pay.
No inheritance taxes to pay.
No more coin or homeowner insurance expense hassles.
Cheaper attorney wills and probate fees.
No more security and storage costs.
No more safe deposit fees and lost keys.
No problem trying to find a way to split a coin in half to leave to your kids.
And.. less worry about leaving money to your kids to spend on drugs, booze, and mistresses.
After them auction boys get all them coins gathered up, they can start selling them as "investment coins" to the next generation, and then do it all over again.
Wash rinse and repeat.
Could work.
Rather silly when you think about it.
I love it.
Have a burglary or fire.