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Possible 20 Cent Coin Scam in Indiana. (That might of spread out)
planonit
Posts: 525 ✭✭
Hi. I wanted to come on here yesterday but I did not get time. I don't know a lot but heard thru the 'grapevine' of a very suspicious guy in Indiana. This is the story as I know it.
Apparently a used car salesman or something in Osgood, Indiana is/was claiming to have a massive collection of 20 Cent Pieces.
He claimed to have like 400 of them or something. He said he had many extremely high grade ones, the proof only dates, and also said he had many 1875 AND 1876 CARSON CITY ones.
I guess he would give very little details, talk in vague terms, and would be hard to meet him anywhere. He was just a 'sketchy' guy. Now I guess this guy has spent like since last year trying to sell these. He claimed to of taken them to Silvertowne but Silvertowne does not remember anybody coming in with a collection like that and I'm pretty sure that is something they would remember. Why wouldn't they snatch that up? Especially since I guess this guy was wanting 20-50k (That is a big range) for the entire collection.
I do know and have heard of a few guys in Kentucky and Southern Indiana making fake 1876cc 20 cent pieces over last year. I saw one and it looked pretty good. They are the only 1876cc 20 cent counterfeits I have heard of. Coincidence? I'd doubt it.
It seems that this guy has supposedly sold this 'collection'. I guess he got a collector/dealer to come up from down south to buy the coins. Last I heard they understood that a collector or dealer from Mississippi was at a coin show in Tennessee and came up to Indiana to buy it on Labor Day or around then.
Some of these counterfeiters not only make really good coins but are also really, really, really crafty. If anybody has any information about this let me know.
Apparently a used car salesman or something in Osgood, Indiana is/was claiming to have a massive collection of 20 Cent Pieces.
He claimed to have like 400 of them or something. He said he had many extremely high grade ones, the proof only dates, and also said he had many 1875 AND 1876 CARSON CITY ones.
I guess he would give very little details, talk in vague terms, and would be hard to meet him anywhere. He was just a 'sketchy' guy. Now I guess this guy has spent like since last year trying to sell these. He claimed to of taken them to Silvertowne but Silvertowne does not remember anybody coming in with a collection like that and I'm pretty sure that is something they would remember. Why wouldn't they snatch that up? Especially since I guess this guy was wanting 20-50k (That is a big range) for the entire collection.
I do know and have heard of a few guys in Kentucky and Southern Indiana making fake 1876cc 20 cent pieces over last year. I saw one and it looked pretty good. They are the only 1876cc 20 cent counterfeits I have heard of. Coincidence? I'd doubt it.
It seems that this guy has supposedly sold this 'collection'. I guess he got a collector/dealer to come up from down south to buy the coins. Last I heard they understood that a collector or dealer from Mississippi was at a coin show in Tennessee and came up to Indiana to buy it on Labor Day or around then.
Some of these counterfeiters not only make really good coins but are also really, really, really crafty. If anybody has any information about this let me know.
I have plans....sometimes
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It would be darn hard to counterfeit the Proof only issues and fool anyone. Despite the fact they were made in the 19th century, the quality of such coins, if they were decently preserved, would be beyond the capabilities of most counterfeiters.
Maybe this belongs in the "urban legend" category.
1) This guy claimed to have MULTIPLE 1875 and 1876 CC.
2) He was hard to get a hold of and gave off an odd vibe
3) He said he took it to dealers. Why would dealers not make an offer? Why would they not say "Holy cow you have 1876cc!?!
4) Why did he say he specifically took it to Silvertowne but Silvertowne but that seems to be a lie. Why lie about that?
If some guy walked in with a massive collection of 20 cent pieces and he even had ONE 1876cc----they would not let him walkout the door.
5) I guess this guy said the Proofs and many of the Gem level ones where in PCGS holders -----that means it becomes a lot easier to counterfeit. Making fake PCGS slabs and putting in very good fake or a very well cleaned coin and saying it is a 1879 Proof 63 is much easier than having one raw.
A lot of red flags here.
I'd seems to me a dealer/collector might of just shelled out BIG money and is back home in Mississippi thinking how great it is he bought the best 20 cent collection EVER (Especially if there was more than 1 1876cc) for a small fraction of what even ONE low grade 1876cc would sell for but most likely just got swindled by a big time scam.
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNe0Bu40cYsvlV2JRacjOTbHPp9Y5cjoMcO3uON
This happened like this week. Heard it from collector friend.
I texted him and he sent me a link to when the guy posted it on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/twenty-cent-piece-collection-269-coins-in-all-/131267992663?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=UiJhk8XWiHELwou8eyRKqrJpM8o%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
There was for sure a guy in Indiana claiming to have a massive 20 cent collection with multiple 1875 AND 1876cc 20 cent pieces.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Why don't you give Scott a call and get back with us on the facts. Wouldn't surprise me that someone offering fakes on ebay. They do it everyday.
Guy told them both story. He had multiple of 1875 and 1876 CC each, proofs, etc but refused to show them any pictures. Said had to come with cash and buy it.
Then I guess he got a sucker to pay him.
All my pal knew was it was a collector/dealer from Mississippi who was at a coin show in TN and came up Labor Day or maybe day or two before/after and bought the coins----which are surely top tier fakes.
While he did say he had "all the dates" represented and a lot of "CC coins", there was no mention of 1876-CC coins. It is not that odd that someone who collected for decades would have a lot of 1875-CC pieces as "back in the day" the price differential between 75-S and 75-CC in the lower grades was minimal.
My guess is the story is becoming "enhanced" as it moves on down the line.
Interestingly, I heard from my co-author that SilverTown did have a large offering of twenty-cent pieces at FUN, so I just assumed they picked up the collection.
To the OP ... there have been Chinese counterfeiters making "good" 1876-CC (as well as all the other issues) double dimes for the past decade. You could buy them for a few dollars each and get them as "circulated" or "uncirculated." The coins would not fool an astute collector, but would fool the novice. They would also sell you a set of dies, if you asked nicely.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>What is the myth?
This happened like this week. Heard it from collector friend.
I texted him and he sent me a link to when the guy posted it on Ebay:
Ebay Link
There was for sure a guy in Indiana claiming to have a massive 20 cent collection with multiple 1875 AND 1876cc 20 cent pieces. >>
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I talked with Scott last November when he listed the lot on eBay. He had 269 double dimes in various grades with some proof issues. He sent me images of a couple of the coins in old ANACS holders. He told me that he and his dad accumulated them over the past 20 years or so and it was time to sell them. He offered me an opportunity to visit him to view the coins, but being more interested in using them for research rather than purchase, I did not make the trip. He made no overtures on price, but it was clear he knew the coins had value.
While he did say he had "all the dates" represented and a lot of "CC coins", there was no mention of 1876-CC coins. It is not that odd that someone who collected for decades would have a lot of 1875-CC pieces as "back in the day" the price differential between 75-S and 75-CC in the lower grades was minimal.
My guess is the story is becoming "enhanced" as it moves on down the line.
Interestingly, I heard from my co-author that SilverTown did have a large offering of twenty-cent pieces at FUN, so I just assumed they picked up the collection.
To the OP ... there have been Chinese counterfeiters making "good" 1876-CC (as well as all the other issues) double dimes for the past decade. You could buy them for a few dollars each and get them as "circulated" or "uncirculated." The coins would not fool an astute collector, but would fool the novice. They would also sell you a set of dies, if you asked nicely. >>
Scam Debunked!
The name is LEE!
My friend even forwarded me a text from this Scott clearly stating he had 'multiple'1876-cc.
Also, this seller said he drove UP to Silvertowne to show them the coins. When asked about the collection and even this guy----they had no recollection.
When my friend told him that he might have a giant gold mine on his hand the seller disappeared and would not return any calls or text at all.
Scams like this know if they get a real solid collector who is not blinded by the wet dream of finding 1876-cc 20 cent and paying a tiny fraction of the value then that collector won't be fooled. They know that a guy like my friend will examine any 1876-cc all the way and won't be fooled to shell out 20k or 50k on the hope one is real.
That is how the scam works. It waits till it gets a collector who is so impassioned by the prospect he is blinded of the red flags abound.
Tons of red flags here. This is not some Cragislist coin scam. This guy is/has run a much more thought out scheme.
<< <i>I called around. I have to stick to it.
My friend even forwarded me a text from this Scott clearly stating he had 'multiple'1876-cc.
Also, this seller said he drove UP to Silvertowne to show them the coins. When asked about the collection and even this guy----they had no recollection.
When my friend told him that he might have a giant gold mine on his hand the seller disappeared and would not return any calls or text at all.
Scams like this know if they get a real solid collector who is not blinded by the wet dream of finding 1876-cc 20 cent and paying a tiny fraction of the value then that collector won't be fooled. They know that a guy like my friend will examine any 1876-cc all the way and won't be fooled to shell out 20k or 50k on the hope one is real.
That is how the scam works. It waits till it gets a collector who is so impassioned by the prospect he is blinded of the red flags abound.
Tons of red flags here. This is not some Cragislist coin scam. This guy is/has run a much more thought out scheme. >>
IMO, you sound not particularly bright.
<< <i>
<< <i>I called around. I have to stick to it.
My friend even forwarded me a text from this Scott clearly stating he had 'multiple'1876-cc.
Also, this seller said he drove UP to Silvertowne to show them the coins. When asked about the collection and even this guy----they had no recollection.
When my friend told him that he might have a giant gold mine on his hand the seller disappeared and would not return any calls or text at all.
Scams like this know if they get a real solid collector who is not blinded by the wet dream of finding 1876-cc 20 cent and paying a tiny fraction of the value then that collector won't be fooled. They know that a guy like my friend will examine any 1876-cc all the way and won't be fooled to shell out 20k or 50k on the hope one is real.
That is how the scam works. It waits till it gets a collector who is so impassioned by the prospect he is blinded of the red flags abound.
Tons of red flags here. This is not some Cragislist coin scam. This guy is/has run a much more thought out scheme. >>
IMO, you sound not particularly bright. >>
I know coin scams. I try and give people warnings.
If you believe some used car salesman is sitting on some 1876-cc 20 cent pieces and anybody who does not believe it is 'not bright'----then I hope you always bring a friend with you to buy coins because you are going to be scammed until your bone dry.
<< <i>A friend of mine who is a detective in NW Indiana was chasing a counterfeiter in 2012. He brought in a ton of fake Morgans for me to look at, obvious fakes. It was funny to see a1792 half disme in a 2 X 2 cardboard flip marked 15 000. The counterfeiter I beleive is in custody, but Im not sure. Ill ask him for an update when I see him. >>
Was it that John Jahnke or Lankhe or whatever he would call himself guy? I think his real name was John Garcia.
<< <i>
<< <i>A friend of mine who is a detective in NW Indiana was chasing a counterfeiter in 2012. He brought in a ton of fake Morgans for me to look at, obvious fakes. It was funny to see a1792 half disme in a 2 X 2 cardboard flip marked 15 000. The counterfeiter I beleive is in custody, but Im not sure. Ill ask him for an update when I see him. >>
Was it that John Jahnke or Lankhe or whatever he would call himself guy? I think his real name was John Garcia. >>
Yes, John Garcia, and I believe it was Lankhe he went by.
"It seems, I guess, apparently". Sound like total fact to me!
<< <i>
<< <i>A friend of mine who is a detective in NW Indiana was chasing a counterfeiter in 2012. He brought in a ton of fake Morgans for me to look at, obvious fakes. It was funny to see a1792 half disme in a 2 X 2 cardboard flip marked 15 000. The counterfeiter I beleive is in custody, but Im not sure. Ill ask him for an update when I see him. >>
Was it that John Jahnke or Lankhe or whatever he would call himself guy? I think his real name was John Garcia. >>
...could it have possibly been Jim Lahey of Canada???
Erik
More 1876 20 cent pieces with CC added being sold in Southern Indiana/Kentucky.
Still hope there is not some dealer and/or collector in Mississippi thinking he bought the best 20 cent collection of all time and he got scammed in the 5 digit territory.
Kinda reminds me of the 1933 double eagle. I bet most of us would have said it was impossible for someone to come up with 10 genuine 1933 double eagles, yet someone did.
I'm not saying anything about if this is a scam or not, I'm just saying you cannot assume that just because a coin is very rare, someone doesn't have multiples of them.
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
Still when somebody is offering a collection of 250 20 cent pieces with dozens of CC including 'multiple' 1876cc for 20-50k cash.......I'm pretty sure we can be 99.999999999% sure that is a professional scam artist.
Also it has been a month. Has any dealer come forward with a 1876-cc, let alone 2?
Somebody got scammed for a lot of money.
All I know is buyer was in Tennessee over Labor Day at a coin show and came to Indiana day after and bought the coins.
<< <i>True.
Still when somebody is offering a collection of 250 20 cent pieces with dozens of CC including 'multiple' 1876cc for 20-50k cash.......I'm pretty sure we can be 99.999999999% sure that is a professional scam artist.
Also it has been a month. Has any dealer come forward with a 1876-cc, let alone 2?
Somebody got scammed for a lot of money.
All I know is buyer was in Tennessee over Labor Day at a coin show and came to Indiana day after and bought the coins. >>
I don't think we disagree at all. I just wanted to make the point that it is feasible for someone to have multiples of a very rare coin.
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
<< <i>True.
Still when somebody is offering a collection of 250 20 cent pieces with dozens of CC including 'multiple' 1876cc for 20-50k cash.......I'm pretty sure we can be 99.999999999% sure that is a professional scam artist.
Also it has been a month. Has any dealer come forward with a 1876-cc, let alone 2?
Somebody got scammed for a lot of money.
All I know is buyer was in Tennessee over Labor Day at a coin show and came to Indiana day after and bought the coins. >>
And how do you know this as fact?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
So I have to assume it is true.
<< <i>Fried told me and then I contacted this guy and he said same thing.
So I have to assume it is true. >>
Assuming is not knowing. Who is "this guy" that you contacted? Is he the person who bought the coins, has seen the coins, is selling the coins, or just another person telling the tale?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I also contacted the 'seller' (if that is what you want to call him) and asked. The guy had an ad on Ebay where he put his phone number for people to call him (ANOTHER red flag).
There is also an older guy who says he is a car salesman (This guy does actually own a used car lot because the phone number is listed to a used car lot) who is selling fake 1876-cc 20 cent pieces in Southern Indiana? Coincidence? I think not.
It is a growing scam.
I guess I don't KNOW some guy lost tens of thousands of dollars on Labor Day but I have to assume so.
<< <i>One is my good friend who is how I found out about the guy.
I also contacted the 'seller' (if that is what you want to call him) and asked. The guy had an ad on Ebay where he put his phone number for people to call him (ANOTHER red flag).
There is also an older guy who says he is a car salesman (This guy does actually own a used car lot because the phone number is listed to a used car lot) who is selling fake 1876-cc 20 cent pieces in Southern Indiana? Coincidence? I think not.
It is a growing scam.
I guess I don't KNOW some guy lost tens of thousands of dollars on Labor Day but I have to assume so. >>
Your story and explanations are so convoluted it's really tough to follow you. Bottom line ... you have no direct knowledge and are just basing your story on assumptions and inferences, correct?
Nobody is disputing that some guy in Indiana listed 269 double dimes on eBay with a phone number to contact him for more information. You, however, seem to be the one stating it's a growing scam with somebody selling multiple 1876-CC pieces for $20-50K. Yet ... you seem to have no direct knowledge or evidence or, well, anything, except your assumptions as to what is "fact."
So what really is the growing scam? Is it the sale of counterfeit twenty-cent pieces or the story about the sale of counterfeit twenty-cent pieces?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Before I explain----I am rather new to this forum but are you out of your damn mind? You insinuate that I AM THE SCAM? So what is my scam? I post possible scam warnings on coin forums? Wow. What a scam I have conjured. The idea that my posting about a scam I have found out about in my own backyard is a 'scam' is one of the most asinine comments I've ever heard.
Let me spell it out.
1) A guy on Ebay is selling a collection of over 250 20 cent pieces (Red flag #1)
2) He also post his phone number and ask people to call him. (Red flag #2)
3) A friend of mine contact said seller and asked to see the coins at a bank of seller's choice. Seller refused (Red flag #3)
4) Seller also refused to send any pictures and would give insanely little detail about the coins. I also can attest to this when I talked to him. He would say things like "There are some proofs' but when you asked what years he said did not know. He would say some were graded---but would not say what years, mints, or grade on any of them. He simply knew almost noting about a collection he was selling. When you'd ask him to look and get back with you----the next time you would talk he would say he forgot. (Red flag #4)
5) Seller said price for collection was 50k, then 20k, then 35k, etc (Red flag #5)
6) He also claimed that dealers had seen the collection and said that Silvertowne had examined the collection but a call to Silvertowne showed that was a lie. Why lie about that? (Red flag #6)
7) He did claim to have 'multiple 1876-cc" (Red flag #7-#1500).
8) There have been multiple instances of counterfeit 1876-cc 20 cent pieces being pushed in Southern Indiana and Kentucky over last year. (Red flag #1501
9) A recent such counterfeit the seller also claimed to be a car salesman which this 'sellers' phone number is to a used car lot. So I guess you think that maybe he found a few more 1876-cc sitting around in his closet??? Maybe he found them in the glove box of a nice 1985 Chevy Truck?? I'm sure you have concluded just one big coincidence? (Red flag #1502)
Any other nonsense you want to talk?
I mean the stupidity of what you are implying is absurd.
So is my story still 'convoluted'?
I guess you are right---I did not actually put this seller on 24hr watch and physically WATCH him scam somebody. You and a few others are a prime example of why coin scams have become such a problem. When collectors take a proactive approach to taking scams down there are numerous other collectors (like yourself) who simply like to play Negative Nancy and get off by swooping in and saying "No scam here. Move along".
So sad.
<< <i>I am not sure how else to explain. I did not want to write a book.
Before I explain----I am rather new to this forum but are you out of your damn mind? You insinuate that I AM THE SCAM? So what is my scam? I post possible scam warnings on coin forums? Wow. What a scam I have conjured. The idea that my posting about a scam I have found out about in my own backyard is a 'scam' is one of the most asinine comments I've ever heard.
Let me spell it out.
1) A guy on Ebay is selling a collection of over 250 20 cent pieces (Red flag #1)
2) He also post his phone number and ask people to call him. (Red flag #2)
3) A friend of mine contact said seller and asked to see the coins at a bank of seller's choice. Seller refused (Red flag #3)
4) Seller also refused to send any pictures and would give insanely little detail about the coins. I also can attest to this when I talked to him. He would say things like "There are some proofs' but when you asked what years he said did not know. He would say some were graded---but would not say what years, mints, or grade on any of them. He simply knew almost noting about a collection he was selling. When you'd ask him to look and get back with you----the next time you would talk he would say he forgot. (Red flag #4)
5) Seller said price for collection was 50k, then 20k, then 35k, etc (Red flag #5)
6) He also claimed that dealers had seen the collection and said that Silvertowne had examined the collection but a call to Silvertowne showed that was a lie. Why lie about that (Red flag #6)
7) He did claim to have 'multipe 1876-cc" (Red flag #7-#1500).
8) There have been multiple instances of counterfeit 1876-cc 20 cent pieces being pushed in Southern Indiana and Kentucky over last year. (Red flag #1501
9) A recent such counterfeit the seller also claimed to be a car sales man which this 'sellers' phone number is to a used car lot. So I guess you think that maybe he found a few more 1876-cc sitting around in his closet??? Maybe he found them in the glove box of a nice 1985 Chevy Truck?? (Red flag #1502)
Any other nonsense you want to talk?
I mean the stupidity of what you are implying is absurd.
You and a few others are a prime example of why coin scams have become such a problem. >>
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>
<< <i>I am not sure how else to explain. I did not want to write a book.
Before I explain----I am rather new to this forum but are you out of your damn mind? You insinuate that I AM THE SCAM? So what is my scam? I post possible scam warnings on coin forums? Wow. What a scam I have conjured. The idea that my posting about a scam I have found out about in my own backyard is a 'scam' is one of the most asinine comments I've ever heard.
Let me spell it out.
1) A guy on Ebay is selling a collection of over 250 20 cent pieces (Red flag #1)
2) He also post his phone number and ask people to call him. (Red flag #2)
3) A friend of mine contact said seller and asked to see the coins at a bank of seller's choice. Seller refused (Red flag #3)
4) Seller also refused to send any pictures and would give insanely little detail about the coins. I also can attest to this when I talked to him. He would say things like "There are some proofs' but when you asked what years he said did not know. He would say some were graded---but would not say what years, mints, or grade on any of them. He simply knew almost noting about a collection he was selling. When you'd ask him to look and get back with you----the next time you would talk he would say he forgot. (Red flag #4)
5) Seller said price for collection was 50k, then 20k, then 35k, etc (Red flag #5)
6) He also claimed that dealers had seen the collection and said that Silvertowne had examined the collection but a call to Silvertowne showed that was a lie. Why lie about that (Red flag #6)
7) He did claim to have 'multipe 1876-cc" (Red flag #7-#1500).
8) There have been multiple instances of counterfeit 1876-cc 20 cent pieces being pushed in Southern Indiana and Kentucky over last year. (Red flag #1501
9) A recent such counterfeit the seller also claimed to be a car sales man which this 'sellers' phone number is to a used car lot. So I guess you think that maybe he found a few more 1876-cc sitting around in his closet??? Maybe he found them in the glove box of a nice 1985 Chevy Truck?? (Red flag #1502)
Any other nonsense you want to talk?
I mean the stupidity of what you are implying is absurd.
You and a few others are a prime example of why coin scams have become such a problem. >>
About the shameful, childish response I'd expect from person like yourself.
-Looks like the same lot of 269 coins sold for a little over 4K awhile back with the transaction never being completed.
Also, the current listing includes a phone number in violation of eBay policy. (Easy to report as such.)
peacockcoins
<< <i>I am not sure I understand what you are saying. If they are fake, I would know. If they were real, I would buy them. No problem. >>
I don't understand what you are saying.
It is simply a heads up on a pro scam artist. I'm sure there are victims (This guy from Mississippi is surely not the only one) and maybe they see this thread or somebody they know does.
Also scams like who are pros don't just always sell big money coins like an 1876-cc. A seasoned collector and even maybe somebody on here might buy maybe a decent looking 1875-cc coin.
These fakes are pretty good. I don't know if it was the SAME guy as who posted this massive 20 cent collection but I actually had a guy in Kentucky (Went by Mike Spencer) who was trying to sell a 1876-cc 20 cent and was wanting 5k for it and was telling people that John Kern had seen and authenticated it (Similar how THIS guy said Silvertowne had seen his 20 cent pieces).
Mr. Kern actually knew this guy's father and I made him aware back in the Spring that this schmuck was using his name to scam people. I ended up getting one of the fakes he sold and I still have it. I too it off a victim for $5. It does not have the "Liberty" doubling because it is a real 1876 with the 'cc' added on and they were added on very well. You need to be under 30x to tell and really, really, really look at it to tell.
It is a very good fake.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.