Did gold really go down 23.00?
MsMorrisine
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Did gold really go up 23.00?
It all seems like the stairs up, elevator down thing. Did it rise on "good reasons" or did it rise on speculation? It seems the speculation rises see the elevator after. As long as people will buy treasuries when the USA credit rating is downgraded, will the rises be for "good reasons?"
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'll also ask, in light of recent lessons from the partial financial meltdown, where does money go as an alternative to the dollar? The Euro? They are as sickly as we are and growth for them? Ha! The Swiss Franc? How limited is that? The Chinese? Good luck with that. They are still communists and could easily seize foreign owned Chinese assets to pay off the US government's debts. Don't say it can't happen, because it can and can for 1 reason: they're communists.
AQll, the doom and gloom in the USA national debts, social security debts, personal debts, business debts -- what are the alternatives?
Gold?
Did it really go up to 1900?
Why didn't it see 1900 again as the debt was downgraded? Where was the money flowing? Not gold. As the swiss franc peaked, gold wasn't peaking over 1900.
I can believe in trouble from the various debts, but without alternatives to the dollar and treasuries, I no longer see gold as the "go to" place for money as it wasn't "all that" during the partial meltdown. Show me some non-gold treasury and dollar alternatives and I'll start re-believing in a gold melt up from the debts.
Not concerned one bit, it just means the spread (premiums) just widens, that's all.
<< <i>Silver also really dropped
Not concerned one bit, it just means the spread (premiums) just widens, that's all. >>
???? Really? I don't see it. If anything, premiums have contracted.
$132 and $331 Respectively.
<< <i>
<< <i>Silver also really dropped
Not concerned one bit, it just means the spread (premiums) just widens, that's all. >>
???? Really? I don't see it. If anything, premiums have contracted. >>
Hasn't dropped enough yet.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Silver also really dropped
Not concerned one bit, it just means the spread (premiums) just widens, that's all. >>
???? Really? I don't see it. If anything, premiums have contracted. >>
Hasn't dropped enough yet. >>
good joke, lol...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Silver also really dropped
Not concerned one bit, it just means the spread (premiums) just widens, that's all. >>
???? Really? I don't see it. If anything, premiums have contracted. >>
Hasn't dropped enough yet. >>
good joke, lol... >>
The premiums from JMBullion et al don't seem to be affected. Still 2.59 over on 100 ASEs same as it's usually been. Provident is +2.67 on 100 of the 2014 coins
So with all that said, with Spot at $19.15 and APMEX wanting $234.12/bar (at the time last night when Spot was $19.15), that means the premium is $4.26.
Let's revisit this in 2 weeks AND Spot has to be lower than $19.15 as was part of my statement, and let's see what the spread is using the exact same item, supplier and method of payment.
If Spot is higher than $19.15, all bets are off because my statement says that Spot must be lower with my theory being the LOWER Spot goes, the more the premium is. See you here 2 weeks from today.
Back in 2009 - 2010, it was logical
to think that all the money being created by central banks would lead to inflation but it has not.
Rates are lower now than they were at the low point of the financial crisis. (What are you getting
in your bank account?)
Zero interest rates and all the quantitative easing just cannot get inflation going.
All it is doing is pushing up the prices of equities.
<< <i>I can believe in trouble from the various debts, but without alternatives to the dollar and treasuries, I no longer see gold as the "go to" place for money as it wasn't "all that" during the partial meltdown. Show me some non-gold treasury and dollar alternatives and I'll start re-believing in a gold melt up from the debts. >>
I am not beating the gold drum at these levels. Probably in the fair value range, depending on ones financial plans and motivation.
Having said that, I began buying the metal in earnest, during the central bank dumps of the late nineties. Gold of course was considered outdated, throwing off no income but was rapidly snapped up by the skeptics of the new paradigm in the $260 level.
You are correct that the metals are a bit out of favor now for the liquidity of bonds yielding 5% under the inflations rate. Of course the fed has greatly influenced (to say the least) the demand for that paper. As QE is winding down, it will be interesting to see where that money flows.
<< <i>ok, at the time of my post last night Spot was $19.15 and APMEX wants $234.12 for this kind of 10 oz Engelhard. Let's use Engelhard because that is by far the most sought after "brand" of silver bar and let's use this common style 10 oz bar because that's the best seller and let's use APMEX because they set the market whether some people want to believe it or not, they are the biggest supplier. Also, let's use the credit card method of payment because let's be honest, that's how most will pay.
So with all that said, with Spot at $19.15 and APMEX wanting $234.12/bar (at the time last night when Spot was $19.15), that means the premium is $4.26.
Let's revisit this in 2 weeks AND Spot has to be lower than $19.15 as was part of my statement, and let's see what the spread is using the exact same item, supplier and method of payment.
If Spot is higher than $19.15, all bets are off because my statement says that Spot must be lower with my theory being the LOWER Spot goes, the more the premium is. See you here 2 weeks from today. >>
dude, u r on another planet... this a complete hogwash, waste of time, bogus, and most importantly, meaningless...
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>ok, at the time of my post last night Spot was $19.15 and APMEX wants $234.12 for this kind of 10 oz Engelhard. Let's use Engelhard because that is by far the most sought after "brand" of silver bar and let's use this common style 10 oz bar because that's the best seller and let's use APMEX because they set the market whether some people want to believe it or not, they are the biggest supplier. Also, let's use the credit card method of payment because let's be honest, that's how most will pay.
So with all that said, with Spot at $19.15 and APMEX wanting $234.12/bar (at the time last night when Spot was $19.15), that means the premium is $4.26.
Let's revisit this in 2 weeks AND Spot has to be lower than $19.15 as was part of my statement, and let's see what the spread is using the exact same item, supplier and method of payment.
If Spot is higher than $19.15, all bets are off because my statement says that Spot must be lower with my theory being the LOWER Spot goes, the more the premium is. See you here 2 weeks from today. >>
dude, u r on another planet... this a complete hogwash, waste of time, bogus, and most importantly, meaningless... >>
If someone like JMBullion is satisfied with $2.59 over spot for current year ASEs when silver was at $21, why would they not be satisfied with $2.59 over spot when silver is $19? If silver pulls back to $17 they have no compelling reason to raise their premium unless some extraordinary event happens. If they are sitting on a bunch of inventory purchased when spot was $20 and it takes a big drop to $16, they either have to sit on it hoping silver goes up, or sell at a loss or raise their premium.
the further it drops, the more people "dump" it.
Strangest phenomena since the Pet Rock.
Strangest phenomena since the Pet Rock. >>
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Why? Because John Wayne took no CRAP
GrandAm
I hope that you feel better soon, come and visit the real world soon, it may help you see things more clearly. Oh, and by the way, nice trolling.
U guys smoke some good stuff I bet....
Edit to add: the most interesting thing is, you guys actually take yourselves seriously as if one discovered the new world...
… Keets asked that (WHY ? ) in a recent U.S. Coin Forum thread.
"Gold just sits there" is what I have come to believe. A dead weight, but not a bad place to have some "money" invested.
The difference between "investing" in coins , and bullion is a HUGE difference in the "market" today, and every day.
It's no mystery. Merely a phenomena. Go long on gold, just don't get buried in it.
Have fun with coins, but know which ones you enjoy having "fun" with.
Gold and silver, platinum, palladium , and "METALS" in general, goes up and down. I think METAL is a great trade. Having worked in it, around it, and with it for a long time despite all the crap.
it buys at ______ and it sells at _______ and in between, it installs in all temperatures and climates…. In some things, there is a thin (razor thin) margin of profit.
And it's easy working for food. It's harder working for money. But still , whether it goes up or down, money only does 1 of 2 things. It works for , or it works against.
And the market just keeps going and going and going. Like an ounce of gold spun into a fine thread. How far will it go ?
Why would you use a 10oz Engelhard as your base? They may have gotten a large shipment of them in, they might get a large order for them. Many things can happen that change premium, especially on a bar that hasn't been made since before I was born(make you feel old?).
I think prices would be drivin up more in a period of large spot increases. Say if we had a run up to $25, I think premiums would increase because of the increase in demand. If silver started dropping to say $17 yes people would initially buy. I myself would, but if silver stays there premiums will creep down as well.
Now all of this is my opinion and what I (think) Ive seen in the markets since Ive been playing around. Ive taken no schooling qualifying me to give advice this is my point of view.
<< <i>lol … don't ask me why, Grand AM. I'm just noticing that when prices drop, more people sell and when they spike, we run and buy. It's the strangest phenomena with regards to the market vs the hobby (of numismatics, which I ventured back into at the wrong time, methinks )
… Keets asked that (WHY ? ) in a recent U.S. Coin Forum thread.
"Gold just sits there" is what I have come to believe. A dead weight, but not a bad place to have some "money" invested.
The difference between "investing" in coins , and bullion is a HUGE difference in the "market" today, and every day.
It's no mystery. Merely a phenomena. Go long on gold, just don't get buried in it.
Have fun with coins, but know which ones you enjoy having "fun" with.
Gold and silver, platinum, palladium , and "METALS" in general, goes up and down. I think METAL is a great trade. Having worked in it, around it, and with it for a long time despite all the crap.
it buys at ______ and it sells at _______ and in between, it installs in all temperatures and climates…. In some things, there is a thin (razor thin) margin of profit.
And it's easy working for food. It's harder working for money. But still , whether it goes up or down, money only does 1 of 2 things. It works for , or it works against.
And the market just keeps going and going and going. Like an ounce of gold spun into a fine thread. How far will it go ? >>
damn good post
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I do think the Ampex spread experiment has value because, if nothing else, they are a market maker i.e. truly two-way with a spread, as opposed to most (bst, etc) which is one-way (with an agenda)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>As a general rule, one would have to believe that premiums are usually higher when prices are higher. That is because the middlemen usually target a specific percentage around which they feel comfortable buying and selling precious metals. The "spread" usually stays around the same percentage on widely traded products. The amount of that spread will be smaller if prices are lower, and vice versa. >>
Premiums were basically nil when silver was $40 and above. Premiums were very high at $6 silver.
Whether prices are rising or falling matters too. If the perception is a drop is unwarranted spreads might widen in dollar or percentage terms so that street price stays the same.
The physical market is very complex compared to the spot price as set by paper trading.
<< <i>As a general rule, one would have to believe that premiums are usually higher when prices are higher. That is because the middlemen usually target a specific percentage around which they feel comfortable buying and selling precious metals. The "spread" usually stays around the same percentage on widely traded products. The amount of that spread will be smaller if prices are lower, and vice versa. >>
this neither a rule or general rule, just someone's observation over who knows what type of overall time frame and time frames within...
the rule is, there are no rules when it come to premiums... they are non-fixed, they are fleeting... i think i wrote a thread on it once a long time ago, but anyways,
one must also define what exactly they mean by "premiums are higher", its amazing what that 1 statement may imply, does it mean in dollar wise terms??? or does it mean in percentage wise terms???, its these general statements that get most in trouble...
ive said numerous times when silver went from 21 to 8, premies were in 40-60% range when it hit 8-9 area, how yall like them cookies?...
<< <i>Things go up and down. Premiums don't matter much based on spot. Premiums change with demand. People want things premiums go up. Right now no one wants 90%, or it would seem so with dropping premiums. Now if people starting buying up 90%, premiums would go up, same with any product.
Why would you use a 10oz Engelhard as your base? They may have gotten a large shipment of them in, they might get a large order for them. Many things can happen that change premium, especially on a bar that hasn't been made since before I was born(make you feel old?).
I think prices would be drivin up more in a period of large spot increases. Say if we had a run up to $25, I think premiums would increase because of the increase in demand. If silver started dropping to say $17 yes people would initially buy. I myself would, but if silver stays there premiums will creep down as well.
Now all of this is my opinion and what I (think) Ive seen in the markets since Ive been playing around. Ive taken no schooling qualifying me to give advice this is my point of view. >>
As prices drop more people buy more silver, but realistically most people only have so much discretionary money to spend so in order to induce them to buy more, one may need to lower prices/cut premiums.
in 08-09 crash premies were high up to 50%+, phyzz was noticeably scarce, some could say there was a small shortage of phyzz available, many sites shutdown during initial lambaste down...
since then, not including 2009 production or 2014 production, and also not including china production, there were over 2.1 billion ounces mined and added to production, contrary to popular belief there is alot of silver available, it is also observable in notable dealer inventories...
price from 49-19, this time its about same drop percentage wise and premies have shrunk considerably, notably they are at around 5%...
You could have APMEX 10 oz bar day/time spot price product price and some note whether the market is up or down. maybe post the premium in dollars and in percentage also ?
Pick a few generic items in silver and in gold. APMEX hedges their products and does go up and down with spot they don't tend to put stuff "unavailable" when spot drops like provident does.
If it was its own thread anyone could post when they happen to look
<< <i>So sick of waking up every morning checking to see what the overnight markets and seeing red all the time.
You'll feel much better not checking the price everyday, but counting the ounces of PM's you have.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>So sick of waking up every morning checking to see what the overnight markets and seeing red all the time.
You'll feel much better not checking the price everyday, but counting the ounces of PM's you have. >>
That sounds like a lesson is depression.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>It went down some more... >>
My bad...I bought some this morning...
<< <i>
<< <i>It went down some more... >>
My bad...I bought some this morning...
So did I.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
So far, this has been great for the stock market. We might be at a tipping point for equities.
I am neutral at best on equities.
A mild worldwide deflation is not positive for precious metals and mining companies. Not good for
industrial metals or energy either.
So with all that said, with Spot at $19.15 and APMEX wanting $234.12/bar (at the time last night when Spot was $19.15), that means the premium is $4.26.
Let's revisit this in 2 weeks AND Spot has to be lower than $19.15 as was part of my statement, and let's see what the spread is using the exact same item, supplier and method of payment.
If Spot is higher than $19.15, all bets are off because my statement says that Spot must be lower with my theory being the LOWER Spot goes, the more the premium is. See you here 2 weeks from today."
What I said from 9 days ago^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's not been 2 weeks, but I wanted to point out that premiums ARE goin up as I said they would if the market continues to go down.
Spot is $18.61 right now and APMEX wants $235.05 for the exact same bar (click on same link from above) paying the same way. That's a premkum of $4.90 compared to $ 4.26 from just 9 days ago. Who's full of sh*t now?
"Who needs risk management when you’ve got guaranteed bailouts? - Jesse Felder
Thats because silver really isnt going down, just paper silver is. Physical is going UP!! LMAO!!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Thanks for the validation, and what my point was exactly about not to worry about it....the more Spot goes down, the wider the premium for physical will be was proven.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
lol, figured that, but it's still validation.
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ok, at the time of my post last night Spot was $19.15 and APMEX wants $234.12 for this kind of 10 oz Engelhard. Let's use Engelhard because that is by far the most sought after "brand" of silver bar and let's use this common style 10 oz bar because that's the best seller and let's use APMEX because they set the market whether some people want to believe it or not, they are the biggest supplier. Also, let's use the credit card method of payment because let's be honest, that's how most will pay.
So with all that said, with Spot at $19.15 and APMEX wanting $234.12/bar (at the time last night when Spot was $19.15), that means the premium is $4.26.
Let's revisit this in 2 weeks AND Spot has to be lower than $19.15 as was part of my statement, and let's see what the spread is using the exact same item, supplier and method of payment.
If Spot is higher than $19.15, all bets are off because my statement says that Spot must be lower with my theory being the LOWER Spot goes, the more the premium is. See you here 2 weeks from today."
What I said from 9 days ago^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's not been 2 weeks, but I wanted to point out that premiums ARE goin up as I said they would if the market continues to go down.
Spot is $18.61 right now and APMEX wants $235.05 for the exact same bar (click on same link from above) paying the same way. That's a premkum of $4.90 compared to $ 4.26 from just 9 days ago. Who's full of sh*t now?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And you are the official doubter of everything, even when proven otherwise