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Coin deal savvy
AMRC
Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
While I am not known to have the most inexpensive coins on the market, I really am not a dealer set-up to be in that market. I try to stock mostly PCGS and CAC certified coins. While people are free to make offers on anything I have, I always chuckle when someones first contact with me (someone I have never done business with before) is "What's your best price?" and that is almost always followed up with "for cash, or a quick sale." And then sometimes they add an education on how I clearly do not know how to read a price guide. My polite response is always, "with all due respect you are asking me to bid against myself, and that is not something I do. If there is a price you are hoping to get the coin for please let me know and we can go from there." The part that makes me chuckle, is that telling me you are willing to pay me in money, and quickly, is the expectation and not some kind of bargaining chip that I am going to get giddy over. These folks think they are being shrewd business people but more times than not all it does is let me know I am dealing with an amateur, and so I am even less inclined to do anything beyond restating my original price.
If someone has a coin you would like purchase and you think the price is too high, then step-up and tell them what you would like to pay for the coin. If they can make it work they will. No need to embellish it with things like "cash" or "quick sale." All I can say is no, but you should never try to educate a dealer in your first contact with them, or ask them their "best price," without at least offering them what you would like to pay. You risk not being taken seriously. That's fine if you are not really interested in THAT coin, but really not a great way to start a transaction.
Fire away......
If someone has a coin you would like purchase and you think the price is too high, then step-up and tell them what you would like to pay for the coin. If they can make it work they will. No need to embellish it with things like "cash" or "quick sale." All I can say is no, but you should never try to educate a dealer in your first contact with them, or ask them their "best price," without at least offering them what you would like to pay. You risk not being taken seriously. That's fine if you are not really interested in THAT coin, but really not a great way to start a transaction.
Fire away......
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Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is April 12-13, 2024 at the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
My best price on coin is may vary depending on current market conditions. I don't put prices on the front and generally just have a cost code on the back with my excel printout handy which has individual columns for CU, CW, KRS, and CDN x a markup factor. The highest price is in the Market Value Column.
If I don't like a price quoted to me on the bourse I simply lay my cash money on the table and make my best offer. It could be CDN Bid plus $5-20 depending on how expensive the coin is. If its a walkup customer selling coins I make an offer based on a percentage of what I think I can sell the coin for to make an instant profit.
As far as what they think about the price I could care less. I have certain ROI goals to achieve for my business. I have told some of them trying to "educate" me simply "I don't care what you think about it" or "perhaps you should shop around." I have found when their BS starts, its time for them to leave my table.
This is obviously a sensitive issue. I have angered dealers in the past and I likely will in the future. I understand your feelings in connection with a collector asking for a "Best Price" but let me put it in a different perspective. I ask for the best price with coins that I will likely buy. I do not make an offer first with this approach and here is why: The purpose is to streamline any negotiation-I take the dealer at his word that number is the number and then I say yes or no- I will not counter if it is a number I can't live with. This approach often circumvents some of the nonsense you see in the back and forth bargaining that can make buying coins unpleasant. I do not always use this strategy, but it seems to be productive and less stressful than some of the buying/selling pitches.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>I ask a dealer what their best price is all the time... I don't like negotiating and going through all that BS for 2-3-4-5 minutes haggling over a coin. Just cut me a price and let's skip the BS. I'll either accept or walk away... I don't counter best prices. >>
I could've written this myself. I do the same thing.
<< <i>
<< <i>I ask a dealer what their best price is all the time... I don't like negotiating and going through all that BS for 2-3-4-5 minutes haggling over a coin. Just cut me a price and let's skip the BS. I'll either accept or walk away... I don't counter best prices. >>
I could've written this myself. I do the same thing. >>
Me too!
Occassionally, if the seller's price is still way too high, I'll reply, "I'm a buyer at $XXX", but that's the extent of my negotiating (or 'horsetrading' as I call it).
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
I did mention that these are people I have not done business with before. Return customers are a different story.
I really price my coins where I think I need to sell them at, I really cannot discount my coins very much anyway. What cracks me up are offers that are less than 85% of my asking. Please do not waste my time.
I can pay the price he is asking and get the coin.
I can decide not to pay the price and just walk away.
I can attempt to negotiate a better price that may work for the both of us.
I often wonder what most dealers would prefer in this situation.
If the price is higher than I want to pay, I usually just walkaway.
I figure that it is the dealers responsibility to properly market their coin, and there are many to choose from.
<< <i>I ask a dealer what their best price is all the time... I don't like negotiating and going through all that BS for 2-3-4-5 minutes haggling over a coin. Just cut me a price and let's skip the BS. I'll either accept or walk away... I don't counter best prices. >>
That is a good way to do things. Cuts the carp and lets the deal happen or not happen.
When I was working I did have the occasional jerk who would ask for the best price, get it, and automatically counter lower. At that point I would put the coin back in the case and go about my business.
<< <i>How is a dealer "giving his best price" supposed to negotiate with anyone if he always "gives his best price". I never understood the people that start with the "give me your best price" line. It is like saying everyone else is a schmuck and has to deal but I am special, I am wonderful, I, and only I should get the privilege of going directly to your "best price". Why? I guess because, "I am serious!". Or, "I have cash!" (BFD)! Get a life. >>
So much better said.....
then make the offer
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AtqXN9yPBzhpvP3TA
I am respectable and polite of the dealer and other customers always. I never make insulting offers. I do ask they best price though.
Too many coins to buy and one does not need a dealer , a dealer some at least think they need customers and will work with them.
Yah , cash price right now matters as opposed to credit card or check or bank transfer or pay pal or come back latter pricing.
Its up to a dealer to develop a customer , some don't care and wont budge though they are a small amount of the dealers.
The market will sort out the arrogant dealers and those not willing to develop there customer base.
I can't count the times I've given my best price to dealers and they still low-ball my price. AND, they sure ain't nice and polite about it. So it goes both ways. Too bad this board has become us against them, or them against us. I truly believe if you are tired of what you're doing, or flat out hate the public/customers best to get into something else. Life isn't worth all the aggravation. Just my worthless opinion.
As a collector I've made countless purchases that way.
<< <i>"What's your best price?" is a great and honest question.
As a collector I've made countless purchases that way. >>
Agreed.
If every dealer everywhere always net priced their inventory, we wouldn't have to 'play games'.
But every dealer is different.
Some are always firm on their pricing. Some offer 'show discounts'. Some drop the price by 10% or so when asked.
I know several guys who put outrageous prices on their coins, drop the price significantly when asked, and if you
still pass, ask what you'd like to pay, and sometimes we can work a deal. I know some dealers that, when you ask
for a best price, come back with 'is this gonna be for cash? If so, I can make you a better deal'.
So, excuse us - perhaps we do things based on our myriads of previous dealings with lots of other dealers.
If you don't like negotiating, etc maybe you should state it up front on your webpage or table that everything is already net priced.
<< <i>"What's your best price?" is a great and honest question.
As a collector I've made countless purchases that way. >>
Absolutely!! I usually ask if there is any room in the price, or give them a number I'm comfortable with. Or both.
For example, last weekend @ CowTown show, I saw an OK SL... marked 70, raw, so depending on how it actually grades either 50 or 70 is fair, so I asked "is there any room there, I was thinking to spend more like $50". Dealer replied that he couldn't do that, he was into it for more than 50, but he could do 65...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I would LOVE it if all coins were labeled with a price, and that price was the REAL price. Like shopping at Wal-Mart! Nobody takes their package of toilet paper to the checkout line, and offers 10% less! For me, that would be perfect. I would either pay, or walk, no problems.....
But, I'm not so clueless that I don't understand that there are plenty of reasons that things aren't done that way. Some love the game. The game is so ingrained, that a discount is expected. Some return customers have earned better prices. Some *$#%'s probably deserve to get quoted high prices, just to make a point.
For me, and what I buy, the difference between high and low retail is probably $10's of dollars, as opposed to $100's or $1000's....so frankly, I'm not going to bargain. I just don't care to.
I ask, "What do you need for this?" Not a best price, not a starting point, not a sweetheart deal. I ask for a price. Then I either buy, or say no thank you. (To be honest, the fact of the matter is that if I cared enough to ask, I've probably decided to buy it anyway, and only an obscene price will drive me away.)
Have I left money on the table, or walked from coins I could have gotten "my" price for? Probably. But I don't care. My game, my rules.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I've carried this with me to shows in my briefcase for years and have whipped it out when both buying and selling.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>In my experience, asking "What is your best price?" is the preferred route of the majority of booth holders and attendees at the major shows, both in dealer to dealer and collector to dealer transactions. It eliminates the BS, cuts to the chase and saves all involved a lot of time, and it works very well for me both buying and selling. >>
Then why not just start there if you want to cut the BS? Right?
Edited for spelling..
<< <i>
<< <i>In my experience, asking "What is your best price?" is the preferred route of the majority of booth holders and attendees at the major shows, both in dealer to dealer and collector to dealer transactions. It eliminates the BS, cuts to the chase and saves all involved a lot of time, and it works very well for me both buying and selling. >>
Then why not just start there if you want to cut the BS? Right?
Edited for spelling..
Some customers want to trade other coins in, some want to do lay-a-way, some want to pay by credit card, etc. My best price is quoted for a "clean" deal - cash or equivalent, immediate payment, no trade ins, to a customer that (if paying by check) I either know well or who has excellent references.
This isn't very complicated, nor is it new news, and it is how most of the major dealers operate. But not all, and if you prefer to do it differently, or have found some other way that works better for you, have at it.
Coin Rarities Online
I did not think that a dealer would take offense to this. More often than not, this leads to a successful transaction that leaves both parties happy.
<< <i>
Some customers want to trade other coins in, some want to do lay-a-way, some want to pay by credit card, etc. My best price is quoted for a "clean" deal - cash or equivalent, immediate payment, no trade ins, to a customer that (if paying by check) I either know well or who has excellent references.
This isn't very complicated, nor is it new news, and it is how most of the major dealers operate. But not all, and if you prefer to do it differently, or have found some other way that works better for you, have at it. >>
John:
You are a fair an upstanding guy. I sold you a 1815/17 half dollar some years ago and you paid strong money for it because, and I quote "I just love the look of this coin." You did not try and school me or low-ball me. The whole point of my thread, is that I get these notes from these guys on eBay that I do not know and they see a "make an offer button" and yet they send me a note asking what is my best price, when they just had an offer get automatically declined that was $200 on a $375 coin, and then give me an education on how to price coins. I do not have anything new or better, I just crack up at how these guys think this is "savvy."
Some of you it seems are asking "what's your best price" when there are already prices marked on the coins... seems like in those cases you're asking the dealer to negotiate against himself or herself instead of you counteroffering the price already being communicated to you.
When there are no prices on the coins, then asking "what's your best price" seems more fair to me as you're just requesting the price from the dealer and are telling him or her to provide one number and that you're not interested in negotiating.
I usually don't mark prices on my coins when I do shows. So when folks ask me my prices, I give the number on my price list and if they come back and counteroffer that is fine with me and on many coins I do have a little room to negotiate. But when customers ask me "what's your best price," then I take a little more time in looking at my price list vs. other sales I've tracked vs. my cost, etc. and then give them a number that I do not expect to be negotiated. Seems to work for most.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Thanks for starting an interesting thread, AMRC!
Although it is getting better now that silver and gold are not going crazy, dealers in my area rarely marked prices on their coins. It's frustrating
since you don't know what a dealer is thinking. I'll saying something like, "what is your [best] price" or "what do you need for this coin" just to see
if the dealers price is anywhere in my ballpark. I know it's not always possible, for me, I'm more likely to buy a coin that is priced. It also saves us
both a lot of time, which can be huge if a show is busy.
<< <i>I ask a dealer what their best price is all the time... I don't like negotiating and going through all that BS for 2-3-4-5 minutes haggling over a coin. Just cut me a price and let's skip the BS. I'll either accept or walk away... I don't counter best prices. >>
Here's a non-coin example: I had a car salesman FOLLOW me to another dealership (owned by same family) after I walked out on his "best price".
I just checked your website and you have an 1860 H10--what's your best price?
More seriously, last week on Wednesday evening I emailed a dealer with whom I have never done business asking him his best price for a coin if I 1) paid using a credit card or 2) paid by sending him a check. I explicitly acknowledged the fact that if I sent him a check, I expected him to hold the coin for a while to make sure the check clears. My goal was to give him the option to save on a credit-card fee (or Paypal fee) and give me a little of the saving. Also, it was my experience dealing with Bowers and Merena and with Whitlow "back in the day" that they were almost always willing to drop the price a bit. As it happened, a local collector had made a deal on the coin the very afternoon I asked, so I lost the coin. But the dealer and I emailed a few times. He seems like a good guy and I hope to do business with him at a point in the future. Of course, I also am a good guy, so that helps!
<< <i>The whole point of my thread, is that I get these notes from these guys on eBay that I do not know and they see a "make an offer button" and yet they send me a note asking what is my best price, when they just had an offer get automatically declined that was $200 on a $375 coin, and then give me an education on how to price coins. I do not have anything new or better, I just crack up at how these guys think this is "savvy." >>
I don't recall seeing all this in the OP. You're now talking about ebay. I thought you were talking about the real coin dealer world.
<< <i>Everyone is welcome to do whatever they do. I certainly do not let this stuff make me angry. Just not a good way, if you care (and clearly some do not) to get a good relationship going with a dealer you have never done business with before. But it really does not matter, I price at where I think I can sell them. I never say to myself, let me start high and then adjust to reality. That makes no sense! But as so well pointed out, I get why people can become jaded that way. >>
Oh, you're angry all right. Or at least clearly frustrated. Certainly it does not "make you chuckle."
If you've ever come down in price after your initial quote, then you absolutely have "started high and adjusted to reality." The buyer is merely signaling that you adjust to reality a little quicker. There may be other messages implicit with the annoying best-price request.
-- He may dislike negotiating. He wants a quote he can say yes or no to, immediately. Many quotes come with a story--how nice the coin is for the grade, how well the issue is trending, etc. He may be saying he doesn't want to hear any of that stuff. He just wants your best price.
-- The buyer is seeking to discover if there is an urgency on your end. Maybe you're tired of having it in your case. Maybe it's been consigned and the consignor is getting restless. Maybe you're in an expansive mood--whatever. The best-price ask is one way--albeit an awkward, clumsy way--of unveiling how motivated you are.
-- The primary goal may not be a "relationship." He may just want to buy the coin. He may not be interested in setting the table for future transactions
-- The buyer is perhaps looking for a price that may come with terms--your terms. Cash instead of check or credit card, maybe. Or that the price is a one-day offer because you're off to a show.
-- The buyer is most likely fearful, insecure and out of his depth in buying scenarios. He's trying to take control of the process. Let him--or at least let him think he's controlling it.
There are a lot of negative connotations with a "best-price" demand that, frankly, would get on my nerves if I were a seller. The tendency is to see them all. But patience in seeing what's fueling the prospective buyer's behavior would seem useful for people in your spot.
Sometimes I think it helps if you play on both sides of the table from time to time. ( set up as a dealer)
I always get a chuckle when dealers make offers when I am set up and they want to school me on my stuff. They need a bigger cut cause they have to resell it. I thought that was why I was there set up??? They want your best material for cents on the dollar, but do not return the favor when you are at their table.
I have a bad habit of pricing material how the person offering makes the offer. While I generally set up to sale I am not going to take rude abuse from some so called know it alls.
If I had seen this exact same item on a dealers table and it was priced at 625 or 650 I generally just keep walking as I feel I can not get the price I want or the dealer does not know the market IMO, others may see it different.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I'm not a dealer, but do deal with customers and customer support in other areas, and I think if I were a dealer this would be about #538 on my list of annoyances of dealing with coin buyers.
<< <i>
<< <i>The whole point of my thread, is that I get these notes from these guys on eBay that I do not know and they see a "make an offer button" and yet they send me a note asking what is my best price, when they just had an offer get automatically declined that was $200 on a $375 coin, and then give me an education on how to price coins. I do not have anything new or better, I just crack up at how these guys think this is "savvy." >>
I don't recall seeing all this in the OP. You're now talking about ebay. I thought you were talking about the real coin dealer world.
Me neither but you need to take eBay with a grain of salt as there are some real looney folks surfing that site.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I tried to buy a coin once after I heard a dealer quote someone else a price. The dealer quoted me a higher price, (I guess he did not know that i heard what he offered it to the other customer for) so, I offered him the amount that he would have sold it to the other potential customer for and he said that he could not sell it for that amount. He said that the other person was a good customer. SO WHAT?? I could have become a "good customer" also. Needless to say, I never talked to that dealer again.
There are many variables.
<< <i>I think that dealers that do not mark prices on their coins may lose a lot of business..First of all, I cannot tell if you are even in the ballpark if you don't put prices on them. Just suppose that I ask for a price on one coin and I think it is moon money. You lost me as a customer right there, even if the rest of your coins are all priced below greysheet. I do not want to waste my time asking for any more prices because I now think that you way overprice all your coins. Most of the times I just pass by the dealers with unpriced coins now.
I tried to buy a coin once after I heard a dealer quote someone else a price. The dealer quoted me a higher price, (I guess he did not know that i heard what he offered it to the other customer for) so, I offered him the amount that he would have sold it to the other potential customer for and he said that he could not sell it for that amount. He said that the other person was a good customer. SO WHAT?? I could have become a "good customer" also. Needless to say, I never talked to that dealer again.
There are many variables. >>
I agree with this completely - at least have something marked. Compared to most on this forum - I dabble - although I do buy quite a bit. Nothing is more annoying to me, and I'm sure the dealer for me to ask for prices on 10 different coins - a few of which I may be clueless about but I like and have no clue if its something I can afford.
<< <i>While I am not known to have the most inexpensive coins on the market, I really am not a dealer set-up to be in that market. I try to stock mostly PCGS and CAC certified coins. While people are free to make offers on anything I have, I always chuckle when someones first contact with me (someone I have never done business with before) is "What's your best price?" and that is almost always followed up with "for cash, or a quick sale." And then sometimes they add an education on how I clearly do not know how to read a price guide. My polite response is always, "with all due respect you are asking me to bid against myself, and that is not something I do. If there is a price you are hoping to get the coin for please let me know and we can go from there." The part that makes me chuckle, is that telling me you are willing to pay me in money, and quickly, is the expectation and not some kind of bargaining chip that I am going to get giddy over. These folks think they are being shrewd business people but more times than not all it does is let me know I am dealing with an amateur, and so I am even less inclined to do anything beyond restating my original price.
If someone has a coin you would like purchase and you think the price is too high, then step-up and tell them what you would like to pay for the coin. If they can make it work they will. No need to embellish it with things like "cash" or "quick sale." All I can say is no, but you should never try to educate a dealer in your first contact with them, or ask them their "best price," without at least offering them what you would like to pay. You risk not being taken seriously. That's fine if you are not really interested in THAT coin, but really not a great way to start a transaction.
Fire away...... >>
I think that is good advice.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Years ago my father told me a story about these guys that used to sell over the counter penny stocks.
He said that when a potential customer walked in, the salesmen would look down at the customers shoes to see how nice they were.
They would always quote the guy with the nicer shoes a higher purchase price.
I can't help but remember that story with a chuckle whenever I see something for sale that does not have a clear price marked on it.
Unmarked prices on sales items trigger me to just move on.
I always do.
<< <i>Years ago my father told me a story about these guys that used to sell over the counter penny stocks.
He said that when a potential customer walked in, the salesmen would look down at the customers shoes to see how nice they were.
They would always quote the guy with the nicer shoes a higher purchase price.
I can't help but remember that story with a chuckle whenever I see something for sale that does not have a clear price marked on it.
Unmarked prices on sales items trigger me to just move on.
I always do. >>
Alternative solution: Wear really crappy shoes.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>
<< <i>Years ago my father told me a story about these guys that used to sell over the counter penny stocks.
He said that when a potential customer walked in, the salesmen would look down at the customers shoes to see how nice they were.
They would always quote the guy with the nicer shoes a higher purchase price.
I can't help but remember that story with a chuckle whenever I see something for sale that does not have a clear price marked on it.
Unmarked prices on sales items trigger me to just move on.
I always do. >>
Alternative solution: Wear really crappy shoes. >>
Ever wear crappy shoes and try to walk for hours at a coin show?
If I do that, how I'm gonna walk away, much less if I gotta run?
lol
One of my basic rules at a coin show is simply that you don't know unless you ask... it is part of the investigative search. Further, it helps build a point of reference should a similar coin surface in the future.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
*one caveat is for "early bird" or "special newsletter" type offerings that haven't even made it to the website yet. I would feel like an ass asking for discounts on those coins.
When I look at price posted dealer stock, I am looking at grades and prices at the same time.
It gives me an indication of where the dealer and his coins are coming from.
I can puruse through his items by grade/price and quickly ferret out the better and more interesting coins.
It saves me time over having to try to look at many unpriced coins to get my bearings of their stock.
I do not go to shows to negotiate over coins.
I go to find some good deals on some fully struck correctly priced stock.
I would rather spend my time looking at more coins than haggling price over them.
And, if a guy sets out a coin on a table at a show and there is no price on it, then what is the point?
Is the coin for show or is the coin for tell?
Is it even for sale?
That kinda makes it seem like the seller is in control of the sale right from the get go and as a buyer, you may not qualify.
As a buyer, I see no reason to yield that point to sellers.
The simple fact is that if prices are not posted sellers will lose some potential buyers.