When did John Elway rookie card become a $5000 card?

ClockworkAngel · August 23, 2014 2:00PM

Memory lane has an Elway RC 10 that sold for about $5,000with hammer! Wow....I picked this up just a couple years ago for $700.

cpamike · August 23, 2014 2:29PM

Amazing how prices across the board have risen so much. What is the pop number on a PSA 10 Elway RC? Is it a tough card to find in a high grade?

SDSportsFan · August 23, 2014 2:42PM

Heck, how about $10,700 for a PSA 10 Jerry Rice rookie and $13,900 for a Walter Payton PSA 10 rookie?

Plus, the auction isn't over yet, so these could go even higher!

Steve

elsnorto · August 23, 2014 2:53PM

<< Amazing how prices across the board have risen so much. What is the pop number on a PSA 10 Elway RC? Is it a tough card to find in a high grade? >>

Spot on, Mike!

Many segments of the hobby have been on a bull run as the economy, or at least consumer sentiment, has improved.

Yet some people only talk about unopened material skyrocketing and being due for an inevitable crash?

Snorto~

slum22 · August 23, 2014 2:54PM

This is clearly a case of irrational exuberance. Price increases like this are unsustainable and I feel sorry for everyone who will lose their shirts on high grade RCs. You've been warned!

slum22 · August 23, 2014 3:06PM

Snorto--you beat me to the punch, lol. My post above was a tongue in cheek post that was meant to be patterned after all the "unopened is in for a fall posts". The truth is our entire hobby ebbs and flows with the greater ebbs and flows of the economy. Macroeconomic events will determine the rise and fall of prices in most cases for our hobby whether it is graded, unopened, memorabilia or any another segment.

elsnorto · August 23, 2014 5:38PM

<< Snorto--you beat me to the punch, lol. My post above was a tongue in cheek post that was meant to be patterned after all the "unopened is in for a fall posts". The truth is our entire hobby ebbs and flows with the greater ebbs and flows of the economy. Macroeconomic events will determine the rise and fall of prices in most cases for our hobby whether it is graded, unopened, memorabilia or any another segment. >>

LOL! You do a pretty good Mesa impression, you just need to add more exclamation points. A lot more exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Snorto~

belz · August 23, 2014 8:17PM

<< This is clearly a case of irrational exuberance. Price increases like this are unsustainable and I feel sorry for everyone who will lose their shirts on high grade RCs. You've been warned! >>

Lol

Dpeck100 · August 23, 2014 9:52PM

Check this one out

itzagoner · August 23, 2014 10:27PM

60sfan · August 24, 2014 2:58AM

Will be interesting to see if these record prices lead to more demand for wax boxes.

grote15 · August 24, 2014 3:18AM

<< IMO, just another example of "irrational exuberance" at play. >>

I thought such sentiments were strictly reserved for unopened product!! Who knew??!! LOL!!

bounce · August 24, 2014 3:20AM

<< Will be interesting to see if these record prices lead to more demand for wax boxes. >>

i think it works both ways really

as many here know, i feel like what's potentially "in the box" has to have relevance to the price of the box when you're talking truly unopened material

and with the price of unopened moving up, it makes perfect sense to me that the price of the high grade cards also had to come up

my sense was that the boxes moved up first, but looking at some of these recent prices maybe that's not entirely true, but the individual card prices are certainly helpful to holding the increased prices of the unopened

ClockworkAngel · August 24, 2014 3:44AM

<< 

<< Will be interesting to see if these record prices lead to more demand for wax boxes. >>

i think it works both ways really

as many here know, i feel like what's potentially "in the box" has to have relevance to the price of the box when you're talking truly unopened material

and with the price of unopened moving up, it makes perfect sense to me that the price of the high grade cards also had to come up

my sense was that the boxes moved up first, but looking at some of these recent prices maybe that's not entirely true, but the individual card prices are certainly helpful to holding the increased prices of the unopened >>

I feel very confident saying that the price of unopened 1984 Topps Football has just gone up. Next auction I'd guess it sets a record price. I think the value of PSA 10's helps unopened much more than the other way around. A good example is the 1984 Donruss boxes. Getting a card graded a 10 is relatively easy. And the unopened just doesn't move in price much.

ClockworkAngel · August 24, 2014 3:52AM

I have not been following 1980's football much so I had no idea that the Marino RC 10 had been selling from $1,100-$1,400. Another amazing number. And the Marino is much easier to find in that grade

The Marino has had over 17,000 submissions and 247 10's. I believe that is the most PSA 10's that exist for any single football card.

The Elway is much more condition sensitive with centering issues and print/surface issues all the time. Out of 15,000+ only 78 PSA 10's.

I used to think the price of Elway vs/ Marino had more to do with the player and Elway's super bowl rings, but I think it might have much more to do with scarcity!

mlbfan2 · August 24, 2014 4:03AM

<< The Marino has had over 17,000 submissions and 247 10's. I believe that is the most PSA 10's that exist for any single football card.
>>

A few Brett Favre cards have well over 1,000.

ClockworkAngel · August 24, 2014 4:11AM

<< 

<< The Marino has had over 17,000 submissions and 247 10's. I believe that is the most PSA 10's that exist for any single football card.
>>

A few Brett Favre cards have well over 1,000. >>

Well, I meant to say in the 1980's, but all the 1989 Score Rookies blow the Marino away

bounce · August 24, 2014 4:23AM

<< A good example is the 1984 Donruss boxes. Getting a card graded a 10 is relatively easy. And the unopened just doesn't move in price much. >>

Not really a good example of what I'm describing. Besides the Mattingly, there's not really anything else that would drive this box and no HOF RCs. And as you say, if 10s are relatively easy, there's no real justification for an increase in box price because there's nothing "new" that could be in there.

Back to the 1984 Football. Two all-time great HOF Quarterbacks plus Dickerson, tough pulls in high grade for ANY of them due to the various issues with the cards. That effectively means the best way to try and hit a high grade card is via packs.

As a result, increase in box price should drive up card prices, if card prices move up it will help to support the box prices and even drive them up as well.

I think for 1980s cards, this phenomenon is going to be mainly in football and basketball. Baseball doesn't have much going for it in most years, maybe you could argue some up through say 1983 but every year after that gets worse and worse.

3BoyzTrading · August 24, 2014 3:59PM

I wouldn't be so sure about the prices holding. I've seen Elway PSA 10's sitting at $1200 or less the last few years on eBay. Just because one sells for $5,000 doesn't mean they are all now worth that much. I'd let the dust settle as there will only be an increase of PSA 10's over time. To compare unopened as an example of future price movement isn't a fair comparison. One is directly tied to the other BUT as one's quantity decreases(unopened) the other will increase(PSA populations).

mattyc_collection · August 24, 2014 4:09PM

Don't believe every hammer price you see. Sometimes when a card sells for a certain price at an AH or on ebay, it hasn't really sold. Sometimes this is an attempt to goose the price and see if the market will follow, because the owner has more waiting to be trickled out. Other times this is an attempt to get a fake data point in the pricing history, then use that new "sale" to sell the card for that amount or close to it sometime after the new record "sale."

lurkingnomore · August 24, 2014 7:06PM

Good thread! I deal in this stuff (higher dollar PSA 10 70s/80s football) and this price even surprised me a little. I had a bid in for around $3k and was outbid early. However, I can "almost" understand why it sold for what it did. Here's a few random thoughts on the Elway:

1 - The last two available for sale (on ebay) closed at $3127 and $3527
2 - Only one dealer at the entire national had one available for sale (me) - there were no other Elway PSA 10 at any table - trust me, I looked.
3 - The Elway is actually a harder PSA 10 to pop in terms of # of 10's to # submitted than the Montana and Montana sells for over $11k
4 - Football is perceived by many as still undervalued and is increasing rapidly recently (see the Payton and Rice in this ML Auction as examples)

Again, I am still a little surprised at the $5k hammer price (I was expecting it to sell for $3500-$3750) but can almost understand why it went for $5k. Al

Publius · August 24, 2014 11:16PM

<< I have not been following 1980's football much so I had no idea that the Marino RC 10 had been selling from $1,100-$1,400. Another amazing number. And the Marino is much easier to find in that grade

The Marino has had over 17,000 submissions and 247 10's. I believe that is the most PSA 10's that exist for any single football card.

The Elway is much more condition sensitive with centering issues and print/surface issues all the time. Out of 15,000+ only 78 PSA 10's.

I used to think the price of Elway vs/ Marino had more to do with the player and Elway's super bowl rings, but I think it might have much more to do with scarcity! >>

The funny thing is both the Marino and Elway card appear on the left border of the series C sheet, about half way down. So any condition sensitivity to the Elway, would appear on the Marino one would gather.

I have noticed the Elway has more snowing than the Marino before because of the background color, but I think you will see a population rise in Elway someday to rival the Marino

ClockworkAngel · August 24, 2014 11:56PM

<< Good thread! I deal in this stuff (higher dollar PSA 10 70s/80s football) and this price even surprised me a little. I had a bid in for around $3k and was outbid early. However, I can "almost" understand why it sold for what it did. Here's a few random thoughts on the Elway:

2 - Only one dealer at the entire national had one available for sale (me) - there were no other Al >>

I think the lack of high grade singles from the 1960-s-1980's is what surprised me the most about the National. It wasn't just the Elway, if you were looking for about any HOF RC from that era in PSA 9 or 10, you weren't likely to find it. There were only 3-4 dealers that had it covered. (And I think they did quite well)

esquiresports · August 25, 2014 2:44AM

<< Don't believe every hammer price you see. Sometimes when a card sells for a certain price at an AH or on ebay, it hasn't really sold. Sometimes this is an attempt to goose the price and see if the market will follow, because the owner has more waiting to be trickled out. Other times this is an attempt to get a fake data point in the pricing history, then use that new "sale" to sell the card for that amount or close to it sometime after the new record "sale." >>

+1. If you are sitting on a pile of a certain card, pumping one up at a major auction house could pay huge dividends. I'm not saying this is what happened. I have no clue. I am just skeptical when I see a multiple price jump of a relatively easy card.

Dpeck100 · November 16, 2014 7:20AM

Elway

Wow this example is really going strong.

I have noticed many of the more marquee football cards in PWCC auctions are getting very strong prices.

MULLINS5 · November 16, 2014 7:37AM

<< Don't believe every hammer price you see. Sometimes when a card sells for a certain price at an AH or on ebay, it hasn't really sold. Sometimes this is an attempt to goose the price and see if the market will follow, because the owner has more waiting to be trickled out. Other times this is an attempt to get a fake data point in the pricing history, then use that new "sale" to sell the card for that amount or close to it sometime after the new record "sale." >>

Spot on.

WrigleyCub · November 16, 2014 7:57AM

I notice a couple of ink smudges on the top border. Not really a good example of a PSA 10 in my eyes.

otwcards · November 16, 2014 8:15AM

Football rookies finally gaining some hobby love? Gee, who would've thunk it? While everyone's been pounding the "modern" market (late 1970's through the 1980's), I'm thankful that most have still ignored a majority of the market where the true value and scarcity exist . . . for the most part.

mattyc_collection · November 16, 2014 8:30AM

<< 

<< Don't believe every hammer price you see. Sometimes when a card sells for a certain price at an AH or on ebay, it hasn't really sold. Sometimes this is an attempt to goose the price and see if the market will follow, because the owner has more waiting to be trickled out. Other times this is an attempt to get a fake data point in the pricing history, then use that new "sale" to sell the card for that amount or close to it sometime after the new record "sale." >>

+1. If you are sitting on a pile of a certain card, pumping one up at a major auction house could pay huge dividends. I'm not saying this is what happened. I have no clue. I am just skeptical when I see a multiple price jump of a relatively easy card. >>

3BoyzTrading · November 16, 2014 9:06AM

Makes me think I did good buying his Topps Proof of his rookie card for under 1K.

tennesseebanker · November 16, 2014 9:09AM

Current high bidder has 90% of total bidding activity with PWCC.

Dpeck100 · November 16, 2014 9:17AM

<< Current high bidder has 90% of total bidding activity with PWCC.

>>

It is hard to tell their motives but I would think it is has to be considered risky to shill this card up to $5,851.

I have a feeling this card is going to top $7,000.

What was the all time high on this card in 2000? Anyone know?

ReggieCleveland · November 16, 2014 9:28AM

Everything north of $3,600 are the same two people -- seems to be a "gotta have it" and the consignor.

3BoyzTrading · November 16, 2014 9:54AM

These were 1K last year. The Starr is nuts though.

jfkheat · November 16, 2014 10:26AM

Sold for a little over $6100. Why did this sell for so much and the PSA 10 Marino in the same auction only sold for a little over $1400? What is the pop report on both of these?
James

Just checked the pop report. 78 PSA 10s for Elway and 96 for Marino. That is not enough of a difference to justify such a big price difference.

grote15 · November 16, 2014 10:34AM

<< Current high bidder has 90% of total bidding activity with PWCC.

>>

And that high bidder with a feedback total of 39 won the card, outbidding really just one other bidder over the $3,600 mark..

60sfan · November 16, 2014 2:06PM

<< Sold for a little over $6100. Why did this sell for so much and the PSA 10 Marino in the same auction only sold for a little over $1400? What is the pop report on both of these?
James

Just checked the pop report. 78 PSA 10s for Elway and 96 for Marino. That is not enough of a difference to justify such a big price difference. >>

There are 239 Marino PSA 10's.........the Elway was nicer looking than the Marino.........the Elway had perfect centering.

60sfan · November 16, 2014 2:09PM

<< 

<< Current high bidder has 90% of total bidding activity with PWCC.

>>

And that high bidder with a feedback total of 39 won the card, outbidding really just one other bidder over the $3,600 mark.. >>

If you're buying $3,000+ auction cards on ebay there's a good chance that a high percentage of them will be through PWCC.

SOM · November 16, 2014 3:06PM

<< If you're buying $3,000+ auction cards on ebay there's a good chance that a high percentage of them will be through PWCC. >>

Excellent, common sense analysis and comment

SlugSports · November 16, 2014 5:08PM

Any 1984 Topps football PSA 10 cards that are fairly low pop have been selling for nice prices! $$$$

itzagoner · November 16, 2014 8:16PM

if that's the best Elway 10, i'm Dudley Moore.

begsu1013 · November 17, 2014 6:13AM

<< Don't believe every hammer price you see. Sometimes when a card sells for a certain price at an AH or on ebay, it hasn't really sold. Sometimes this is an attempt to goose the price and see if the market will follow, because the owner has more waiting to be trickled out. Other times this is an attempt to get a fake data point in the pricing history, then use that new "sale" to sell the card for that amount or close to it sometime after the new record "sale." >>

you mean something like this:

52 mantle bowman @ $6333

and then now:

that same card now $5495 obo

BLUEJAYWAY · November 17, 2014 9:14AM

<< Sold for a little over $6100. Why did this sell for so much and the PSA 10 Marino in the same auction only sold for a little over $1400? What is the pop report on both of these?
James

Just checked the pop report. 78 PSA 10s for Elway and 96 for Marino. That is not enough of a difference to justify such a big price difference. >>

Just a question

oes the fact that Elway has 2 Super Bowl rings and Marino 0 figure at all into this price differential with all other aspects being equal?Or could it be more of a popularity view for Elway?

3BoyzTrading · November 17, 2014 2:07PM

<< 

<< Don't believe every hammer price you see. Sometimes when a card sells for a certain price at an AH or on ebay, it hasn't really sold. Sometimes this is an attempt to goose the price and see if the market will follow, because the owner has more waiting to be trickled out. Other times this is an attempt to get a fake data point in the pricing history, then use that new "sale" to sell the card for that amount or close to it sometime after the new record "sale." >>

you mean something like this:

52 mantle bowman @ $6333

and then now:

that same card now $5495 obo >>

Great example.

LarkinCollector · November 17, 2014 9:49PM

<< 

<< Sold for a little over $6100. Why did this sell for so much and the PSA 10 Marino in the same auction only sold for a little over $1400? What is the pop report on both of these?
James

Just checked the pop report. 78 PSA 10s for Elway and 96 for Marino. That is not enough of a difference to justify such a big price difference. >>

Just a question

oes the fact that Elway has 2 Super Bowl rings and Marino 0 figure at all into this price differential with all other aspects being equal?Or could it be more of a popularity view for Elway? >>

Elway is still in the news frequently and there are a lot of 'new' Denver fans. Marino, I don't hear much about outside of collector circles and the occasional breaking of one of his records (congrats to Stafford this week).

begsu1013 · November 18, 2014 12:16PM

<< 

<< 

<< Don't believe every hammer price you see. Sometimes when a card sells for a certain price at an AH or on ebay, it hasn't really sold. Sometimes this is an attempt to goose the price and see if the market will follow, because the owner has more waiting to be trickled out. Other times this is an attempt to get a fake data point in the pricing history, then use that new "sale" to sell the card for that amount or close to it sometime after the new record "sale." >>

you mean something like this:

52 mantle bowman @ $6333

and then now:

that same card now $5495 obo >>

Great example.

>>

funny thing is I actually need an 8 or better in this 52 bowman for my mantle set...I sent the guy a message and this was his reply:

"Thank you for your interest in our card. Since the last PSA 8 on eBay sold for over $6300 I think we are priced fairly at $5495. That being said, If you offered me $5250 I would probably accept your offer."

he had the card listed in august. didn't sell.
obviously sent it to pwcc and "sold" sept 4. @ $6333
now has it relisted @ $5495.

the fact that he regurgitated the $6300 price is not only deceptive but just undermining...and the fact that he said he'd "probably" accept my offer at $5250 is an absolute riot!!!

mattyc_collection · November 18, 2014 12:20PM

You should pass on that one anyway; it's way off top bottom for that money

begsu1013 · November 18, 2014 12:26PM

I wasn't even close to the $5250 in my "obo"...I have an "a" that looks way better in my opinion.

mattyc_collection · November 18, 2014 12:28PM

Amen. Better looking card always wins in my book.

begsu1013 · November 18, 2014 12:46PM

yep. and I was born at night. just not last night!

Dpeck100 · May 20, 2015 11:33AM

BGS 9.5

This card looks over sized in the holder to me. Is that the sign of a sheet cut card in most cases?

When did John Elway rookie card become a $5000 card?

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