<< <i>The Dugout shrink wraps and puts their company sticker on unopened boxes they sell. James[dugout have yet to see an auction house pimping it was wrapped by The Dugout.
It could be coming I suppose. >>
It would be awesome if the dugout would charge BBCE's monopolizd prices.
To bigdcards: "you are right" - cpamike "That is correct" -grote15
1) This is not and never has been a service that BBCE has advertised or even attempted to market. This revenue stream basically fell in their lap. Since the unopened market went nuts they've been flooded with requests to wrap stuff for a fee. Literally hundreds of collectors and dealers begging them to take their money. Anybody that runs a business and would not take advantage of a situation like this would be insane, especially considering there's nothing wrong or unethical about giving an expert opinion on a piece of merchandise.
2) There is a difference between having a monopoly and being the foremost authority on something. With the wrapping, you are not paying for a physical product. You are paying for an expert opinion; no different than a JSA COA on an autograph. The wrapping acts as the COA, and the COA significantly increases the value of the item because it increases consumer confidence. Most in the hobby respect Steve's opinion on wax more than anybody else's so they pay for that opinion. Whether he sells the same merchandise or not is irrelevant because he only stands to lose his market position if he wraps bogus product and sells it.
DPeck- So in my situation where I have a collection of highend unopened boxes which were purchased back in 1997-2009. My boxes just sat on the shelf for 10-15 years without any transactions with/from BBCE. Last year I had Steve look at those boxes and wrap them for me for a small fee. If I decide to sell those boxes tomorrow on my own to other collectors in the industry. How does BBCE profit from this authentication procedure that you are calling a monoply? Steve verified the boxes for me but he does not make another dollar from my sell at all. Steve has a very strong reputation in the industry that provides a comfort level for buyers. He should be compensated for providing that service. Certainly you would not advise your clients for free. You have educated yourself over the years and taken numerous tests (series 6, 63, 7 and others I am sure) for you to assist clients in buying and selling stocks. All of that hard work you did has allowed you to gain a customer base and a security blanket for your customers. How is that any different for Steve? I believe that Steve had our hobby in his best interest when he created a new wrap to avoid scammers from duplicating his original product. Yes there will always be thieves willing to find a way to screw people, but BBCE is trying to help our hobby not hurt it. While I agree that Steve has a cornered market on this sector of our hobby. Steve should not be crucified for taking advantage of a market in need of certification. Perhaps another company will come along to help out in this arena, but it will take years (just like your business did) to establish trust in the market place.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
<< <i>DPeck- So in my situation where I have a collection of highend unopened boxes which were purchased back in 1997-2009. My boxes just sat on the shelf for 10-15 years without any transactions with/from BBCE. Last year I had Steve look at those boxes and wrap them for me for a small fee. If I decide to sell those boxes tomorrow on my own to other collectors in the industry. How does BBCE profit from this authentication procedure that you are calling a monoply? Steve verified the boxes for me but he does not make another dollar from my sell at all. Steve has a very strong reputation in the industry that provides a comfort level for buyers. He should be compensated for providing that service. Certainly you would not advise your clients for free. You have educated yourself over the years and taken numerous tests (series 6, 63, 7 and others I am sure) for you to assist clients in buying and selling stocks. All of that hard work you did has allowed you to gain a customer base and a security blanket for your customers. How is that any different for Steve? I believe that Steve had our hobby in his best interest when he created a new wrap to avoid scammers from duplicating his original product. Yes there will always be thieves willing to find a way to screw people, but BBCE is trying to help our hobby not hurt it. While I agree that Steve has a cornered market on this sector of our hobby. Steve should not be crucified for taking advantage of a market in need of certification. Perhaps another company will come along to help out in this arena, but it will take years (just like your business did) to establish trust in the market place. >>
Crucified? Please re post any comment that I have made that has been derogitory. There aren't any.
In my business no one has remotely close to as much power as Steve does. Not a fraction.
I don't blame Steve for offering the service. Quite frankly it is brilliant.
It is interesting to see you confirm he has cornered the market.
1) This is not and never has been a service that BBCE has advertised or even attempted to market. This revenue stream basically fell in their lap. Since the unopened market went nuts they've been flooded with requests to wrap stuff for a fee. Literally hundreds of collectors and dealers begging them to take their money. Anybody that runs a business and would not take advantage of a situation like this would be insane, especially considering there's nothing wrong or unethical about giving an expert opinion on a piece of merchandise.
2) There is a difference between having a monopoly and being the foremost authority on something. With the wrapping, you are not paying for a physical product. You are paying for an expert opinion; no different than a JSA COA on an autograph. The wrapping acts as the COA, and the COA significantly increases the value of the item because it increases consumer confidence. Most in the hobby respect Steve's opinion on wax more than anybody else's so they pay for that opinion. Whether he sells the same merchandise or not is irrelevant because he only stands to lose his market position if he wraps bogus product and sells it.
Lee >>
+1
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
In fairness, dugout wrapped boxes that I've bought and sent to bbce have all been "good boxes" . But they have the same concerns with ease of counterfeiting.
DPeck You may have not directly crucified BBCE in your posts but you most certainly have indirectly done that. Most of your posts have nothing to do with cards but rather your profession. Are you sure you are on the right message boards? This is a sportcard forum and not an economics forum. You are quick to throw rocks at our industry and even quicker to discuss supply and demand, monopoly and other financial lingo with us. I don't need to know what your collection consists of but you seem to offer very little when it comes to collecting. And a person with 6384 posts should have more to offer than this that you have. No offense just stating the obvious. Yes Steve does have the market cornered in authentication. Is there room for other companies to do this? Absolutely but this is not his fault for being the only company in town to offer his services.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
"This is a great business model. They better hope the justice department never gets interested in trading cards. LOL "---- Dpeck You are insuating that BBCE is doing something wrong and need to be caught as if it is underhanded and illegal. The LOL tells me you would like to see that happen.
"A conflict of interest like this doesn't really bother me because it has no impact on me. If it did I might feel differently." DPeck Why do you care or post on something that has zero impact on you?
"I have purchased items from BBCX and been extremely pleased with the service and quality and would do so again. I just am willing to call a spade a spade." dpeck So you have unopened boxes which you bought from Steve and you use his services but in the post above you hope the justice department never catches wind of his practice. I personally will not do business with people who are cheats/underhanded.
"BBCX clearly meets this description. They are the single supplier of vintage wax boxes of trading cards. The reason they meet this description is in order to get full retail value you must have their logo on it. Sure there are others like Fritsch but the amount of product they move is a fraction of what BBCX does and even some collectors would end up getting those boxes wrapped for potentially adding value. Dpeck I have boxes from Fritsch that are not wrapped by BBCE. Yes I will need to have a wrap on the box to sell it for max value. I also have a nrmt/mint collection of baseball sets. If I want full value for those sets I am going to have to have PSa look at it to achieve maximum value. Also BBCE is actually cheaper on 90% of their inventory than what market currently will bring.
DPeck I can't tell who you are. Do you like collecting or do you like educating us with all the economics crap? Anyone who looks at your posts like I did right now is going to see a distructive dialog towards our industry and a very boring discussion on how the world financially operates.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
<< <i>"This is a great business model. They better hope the justice department never gets interested in trading cards. LOL "---- Dpeck You are insuating that BBCE is doing something wrong and need to be caught as if it is underhanded and illegal. The LOL tells me you would like to see that happen.
"A conflict of interest like this doesn't really bother me because it has no impact on me. If it did I might feel differently." DPeck Why do you care or post on something that has zero impact on you?
"I have purchased items from BBCX and been extremely pleased with the service and quality and would do so again. I just am willing to call a spade a spade." dpeck So you have unopened boxes which you bought from Steve and you use his services but in the post above you hope the justice department never catches wind of his practice. I personally will not do business with people who are cheats/underhanded.
"BBCX clearly meets this description. They are the single supplier of vintage wax boxes of trading cards. The reason they meet this description is in order to get full retail value you must have their logo on it. Sure there are others like Fritsch but the amount of product they move is a fraction of what BBCX does and even some collectors would end up getting those boxes wrapped for potentially adding value. Dpeck I have boxes from Fritsch that are not wrapped by BBCE. Yes I will need to have a wrap on the box to sell it for max value. I also have a nrmt/mint collection of baseball sets. If I want full value for those sets I am going to have to have PSa look at it to achieve maximum value. Also BBCE is actually cheaper on 90% of their inventory than what market currently will bring.
DPeck I can't tell who you are. Do you like collecting or do you like educating us with all the economics crap? Anyone who looks at your posts like I did right now is going to see a distructive dialog towards our industry and a very boring discussion on how the world financially operates. >>
The first one was a joke but you can take it how you did. I would think the LOL might have been a hint and in reality it had more political undertones then anything if you want to deem it derogatory. There are loads of industries with very little competition and clearly this is one of them.
How on earth could my comments be considered destructive? It is pretty clear. I have gotten PM's from people I would have never expected on this that are 100% in agreement with what I have stated.
I am not suggesting they are commiting fraud. They just have massive market power and I am pointing this out.
I stay out of the threads about sports stats and so forth becuase I really have nothing to add and I would just be guessing. It surprises me the kick back I get sometimes in these type threads when it is where my background lends itself most. Markets.
This whole unopened thing is like a cult. If you say anything other then prices should go to the moon you are a hater or any number of other horrible things. It is not a personal attack on you or anyone.
I love to collect cards. I am surpised you question that.
There was a thread a few weeks ago that everyone posted their profession. I don't recall what your's was but whatever it was if you were a true expert in the field I would most certainly take your opinion at face value and if it differed I would do some research and see what others thought.
I feel good about the things I write on this forum and add value. If you don't see it that way then so be it.
<< <i>DPeck ... I don't need to know what your collection consists of but you seem to offer very little when it comes to collecting. And a person with 6384 posts should have more to offer than this that you have. No offense just stating the obvious. >>
DPeck has posted hundreds, if not thousands, of times about wrestling cards. He provides tremendous insight into that corner of the collecting world, market trends in that arena, and so on. If you haven't seen his many, many posts about collecting, it's because you're trying not to. No offense just stating the obvious.
<< <i>Dpeck has a monopoly on Wrestling All-Star Cards.
...just saying. >>
That was the point of buying so many. >>
+1
Not jabbing you, I love and admire your set.
Question: I always thought that a monopoly has to involve a product that is a necessity. This not so? >>
I wasn't joking.
No it does not.
The card grading industry for example is an oligopoly.
Here is a definition.
Monopoly power
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A pure monopoly is defined as a single supplier. While there only a few cases of pure monopoly, monopoly ‘power’ is much more widespread, and can exist even when there is more than one supplier – such in markets with only two firms, called a duopoly, and a few firms, an oligopoly.
I work in an industry that is subject to monopoly scrutiny. Some monopolies are natural, like your local utility. In competitive markets, the standard used by regulators is does the monopoly situation harm the consumer by limiting choice and is the company abusing their power?
In BBCE's situation, I don't see how a govt agency would consider them a monopoly. I can buy unopened boxes from many sources. In fact Dave & Adams and SteelCity have expanded their unopened vintage selection and are getting prices at BBCE levels. As a consumer, my choice is not limited by BBCE.
As for abusing their power, I think Steve's track record speaks for itself. BBCE is not a charity and Steve needs to make a living. Considering all of the frauds that have come and go in our hobby (WIWAG, Maestro anyone?), Steve is an asset to our hobby along with other dealers.
BBCE's position isn't a lock on anything. As many pointed out, it could down at any time under the right circumstances. Remember when Beckett used to be the unquestioned leader in card pricing?
<< <i>This whole unopened thing is like a cult. If you say anything other then prices should go to the moon you are a hater or any number of other horrible things. It is not a personal attack on you or anyone. >>
Everyone can have an opinion and chime in where they feel the need to contribute. As I said before the only things I see from you in something against BBCE or financial stuff. I don't read the threads regarding wrestling cards so you might have some great insight to that market and perhaps have something constructive to offer. I could not tell you one thing about that market so I have no interest in reading it or replying to it. I am not an authority on baseball cards or unopened material but I have a passion for this hobby and enjoy speaking with other collectors about it. If you have something negative to say about what I collect I will usually let you say your two cents and not respond. I personally feel you have something against unopened collectors, BBCE and the increased pricing of these products.
No hard feelings.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
<< <i>This whole unopened thing is like a cult. If you say anything other then prices should go to the moon you are a hater or any number of other horrible things. It is not a personal attack on you or anyone. >>
Everyone can have an opinion and chime in where they feel the need to contribute. As I said before the only things I see from you in something against BBCE or financial stuff. I don't read the threads regarding wrestling cards so you might have some great insight to that market and perhaps have something constructive to offer. I could not tell you one thing about that market so I have no interest in reading it or replying to it. I am not an authority on baseball cards or unopened material but I have a passion for this hobby and enjoy speaking with other collectors about it. If you have something negative to say about what I collect I will usually let you say your two cents and not respond. I personally feel you have something against unopened collectors, BBCE and the increased pricing of these products.
No hard feelings. >>
You just made my point. Anyone who has anything to say about it that is not to the moon is against you in some way. It couldn't be further from the truth.
I have nothing to be jealous of. Perhaps you haven't seen what has happened to the cards I collect.
If no one else offers a service or a product, is it the fault of the one person that does?
The BBCE wrap increases the value of your box on a perceived level. If YOU have a good reputation, then the BBCE wrap does not really do anything for you or for the price of the material you have to sell. Unfortunately, most people do not have enough of a historical record of selling to justify paying the extra money to them, so they therefore can purchase the service offered by BBCE.
I dont consider monopolies to be all that bad, even though the government may. If you have one company that does a job well and does it so well that no other company can match their service, is it a bad thing? Would you rather have two or more other crappy companies putting out the same product? If you do, then please feel free to buy graded cards from Graded Rookies Authenticated or one of the other bogus services, after all, they are helping PSA to not have a monopoly.
<< <i>If no one else offers a service or a product, is it the fault of the one person that does?
The BBCE wrap increases the value of your box on a perceived level. If YOU have a good reputation, then the BBCE wrap does not really do anything for you or for the price of the material you have to sell. Unfortunately, most people do not have enough of a historical record of selling to justify paying the extra money to them, so they therefore can purchase the service offered by BBCE.
I dont consider monopolies to be all that bad, even though the government may. If you have one company that does a job well and does it so well that no other company can match their service, is it a bad thing? Would you rather have two or more other crappy companies putting out the same product? If you do, then please feel free to buy graded cards from Graded Rookies Authenticated or one of the other bogus services, after all, they are helping PSA to not have a monopoly. >>
I don't consider it bad either. That was never the intent of any of my comments. BBCX has gained a loyal following and this is from years of hard work.
That is what has led to the current situation as I see it.
PSA and BBCE will not maintain their control of the market forever. There's always the next competitor ready to take market share. There are countless people trying to build the better mousetrap in any industry and every market. God Bless capitalism. I remember when sears completely owned the retail market. I remember when AOL owned the online market. Those 2 things have changed dramatically.
Today, Apple has a huge strangle hold of the high tech market. It won't last into the 2020's. PSA and BBCE might always be the best, but they will not have the dominance they do forever. Too many opportunities to create competition and make a lot of money.
The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase TheClockworkAngelCollection
1) This is not and never has been a service that BBCE has advertised or even attempted to market. This revenue stream basically fell in their lap. Since the unopened market went nuts they've been flooded with requests to wrap stuff for a fee. Literally hundreds of collectors and dealers begging them to take their money. Anybody that runs a business and would not take advantage of a situation like this would be insane, especially considering there's nothing wrong or unethical about giving an expert opinion on a piece of merchandise.
2) There is a difference between having a monopoly and being the foremost authority on something. With the wrapping, you are not paying for a physical product. You are paying for an expert opinion; no different than a JSA COA on an autograph. The wrapping acts as the COA, and the COA significantly increases the value of the item because it increases consumer confidence. Most in the hobby respect Steve's opinion on wax more than anybody else's so they pay for that opinion. Whether he sells the same merchandise or not is irrelevant because he only stands to lose his market position if he wraps bogus product and sells it.
At this point, it would be in our best interests to get back to cards and not get into a protracted philosophical discussion. You guys know way more about this stuff than I. But, I just hate to see people potentially argue - it's almost like politics?
My last point is for Chris.
And something that I got off track about - an apology - I was wondering how BBCEx did their authentication and shrink wrap sealing - and "what" they charge.
Comments
<< <i>The Dugout shrink wraps and puts their company sticker on unopened boxes they sell.
James >>
I have yet to see an auction house pimping it was wrapped by The Dugout.
It could be coming I suppose.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Dugout shrink wraps and puts their company sticker on unopened boxes they sell.
James >>
I have yet to see an auction house pimping it was wrapped by The Dugout.
It could be coming I suppose. >>
The only reason I posted this is because you have said several times that BBCE has a monopoly on shrink wrapping and authenticating boxes.
James
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The Dugout shrink wraps and puts their company sticker on unopened boxes they sell.
James >>
I have yet to see an auction house pimping it was wrapped by The Dugout.
It could be coming I suppose. >>
The only reason I posted this is because you have said several times that BBCE has a monopoly on shrink wrapping and authenticating boxes.
James >>
Are you aware of them offering a service selling authentication?
I believe the boxes are just theirs and being sold on EBAY.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Dugout shrink wraps and puts their company sticker on unopened boxes they sell.
James[dugout have yet to see an auction house pimping it was wrapped by The Dugout.
It could be coming I suppose. >>
It would be awesome if the dugout would charge BBCE's monopolizd prices.
1) This is not and never has been a service that BBCE has advertised or even attempted to market. This revenue stream basically fell in their lap. Since the unopened market went nuts they've been flooded with requests to wrap stuff for a fee. Literally hundreds of collectors and dealers begging them to take their money. Anybody that runs a business and would not take advantage of a situation like this would be insane, especially considering there's nothing wrong or unethical about giving an expert opinion on a piece of merchandise.
2) There is a difference between having a monopoly and being the foremost authority on something. With the wrapping, you are not paying for a physical product. You are paying for an expert opinion; no different than a JSA COA on an autograph. The wrapping acts as the COA, and the COA significantly increases the value of the item because it increases consumer confidence. Most in the hobby respect Steve's opinion on wax more than anybody else's so they pay for that opinion. Whether he sells the same merchandise or not is irrelevant because he only stands to lose his market position if he wraps bogus product and sells it.
Lee
Steve has a very strong reputation in the industry that provides a comfort level for buyers. He should be compensated for providing that service. Certainly you would not advise your clients for free. You have educated yourself over the years and taken numerous tests (series 6, 63, 7 and others I am sure) for you to assist clients in buying and selling stocks. All of that hard work you did has allowed you to gain a customer base and a security blanket for your customers. How is that any different for Steve?
I believe that Steve had our hobby in his best interest when he created a new wrap to avoid scammers from duplicating his original product. Yes there will always be thieves willing to find a way to screw people, but BBCE is trying to help our hobby not hurt it.
While I agree that Steve has a cornered market on this sector of our hobby. Steve should not be crucified for taking advantage of a market in need of certification. Perhaps another company will come along to help out in this arena, but it will take years (just like your business did) to establish trust in the market place.
<< <i>DPeck- So in my situation where I have a collection of highend unopened boxes which were purchased back in 1997-2009. My boxes just sat on the shelf for 10-15 years without any transactions with/from BBCE. Last year I had Steve look at those boxes and wrap them for me for a small fee. If I decide to sell those boxes tomorrow on my own to other collectors in the industry. How does BBCE profit from this authentication procedure that you are calling a monoply? Steve verified the boxes for me but he does not make another dollar from my sell at all.
Steve has a very strong reputation in the industry that provides a comfort level for buyers. He should be compensated for providing that service. Certainly you would not advise your clients for free. You have educated yourself over the years and taken numerous tests (series 6, 63, 7 and others I am sure) for you to assist clients in buying and selling stocks. All of that hard work you did has allowed you to gain a customer base and a security blanket for your customers. How is that any different for Steve?
I believe that Steve had our hobby in his best interest when he created a new wrap to avoid scammers from duplicating his original product. Yes there will always be thieves willing to find a way to screw people, but BBCE is trying to help our hobby not hurt it.
While I agree that Steve has a cornered market on this sector of our hobby. Steve should not be crucified for taking advantage of a market in need of certification. Perhaps another company will come along to help out in this arena, but it will take years (just like your business did) to establish trust in the market place. >>
Crucified? Please re post any comment that I have made that has been derogitory. There aren't any.
In my business no one has remotely close to as much power as Steve does. Not a fraction.
I don't blame Steve for offering the service. Quite frankly it is brilliant.
It is interesting to see you confirm he has cornered the market.
<< <i>A few points to make:
1) This is not and never has been a service that BBCE has advertised or even attempted to market. This revenue stream basically fell in their lap. Since the unopened market went nuts they've been flooded with requests to wrap stuff for a fee. Literally hundreds of collectors and dealers begging them to take their money. Anybody that runs a business and would not take advantage of a situation like this would be insane, especially considering there's nothing wrong or unethical about giving an expert opinion on a piece of merchandise.
2) There is a difference between having a monopoly and being the foremost authority on something. With the wrapping, you are not paying for a physical product. You are paying for an expert opinion; no different than a JSA COA on an autograph. The wrapping acts as the COA, and the COA significantly increases the value of the item because it increases consumer confidence. Most in the hobby respect Steve's opinion on wax more than anybody else's so they pay for that opinion. Whether he sells the same merchandise or not is irrelevant because he only stands to lose his market position if he wraps bogus product and sells it.
Lee >>
+1
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
You may have not directly crucified BBCE in your posts but you most certainly have indirectly done that. Most of your posts have nothing to do with cards but rather your profession. Are you sure you are on the right message boards? This is a sportcard forum and not an economics forum. You are quick to throw rocks at our industry and even quicker to discuss supply and demand, monopoly and other financial lingo with us. I don't need to know what your collection consists of but you seem to offer very little when it comes to collecting. And a person with 6384 posts should have more to offer than this that you have. No offense just stating the obvious.
Yes Steve does have the market cornered in authentication. Is there room for other companies to do this? Absolutely but this is not his fault for being the only company in town to offer his services.
<< <i>You may have not directly crucified BBCE in your posts but you most certainly have indirectly done that. >>
Lets see insinuation, speculation and now exaggeration. WhatATION can we add next to this thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>You may have not directly crucified BBCE in your posts but you most certainly have indirectly done that. >>
Lets see insinuation, speculation and now exaggeration. WhatATION can we add next to this thread.
I think this thread has devolved into master........ nevermind.
You are insuating that BBCE is doing something wrong and need to be caught as if it is underhanded and illegal. The LOL tells me you would like to see that happen.
"A conflict of interest like this doesn't really bother me because it has no impact on me. If it did I might feel differently." DPeck
Why do you care or post on something that has zero impact on you?
"I have purchased items from BBCX and been extremely pleased with the service and quality and would do so again. I just am willing to call a spade a spade." dpeck
So you have unopened boxes which you bought from Steve and you use his services but in the post above you hope the justice department never catches wind of his practice. I personally will not do business with people who are cheats/underhanded.
"BBCX clearly meets this description. They are the single supplier of vintage wax boxes of trading cards. The reason they meet this description is in order to get full retail value you must have their logo on it. Sure there are others like Fritsch but the amount of product they move is a fraction of what BBCX does and even some collectors would end up getting those boxes wrapped for potentially adding value. Dpeck
I have boxes from Fritsch that are not wrapped by BBCE. Yes I will need to have a wrap on the box to sell it for max value. I also have a nrmt/mint collection of baseball sets. If I want full value for those sets I am going to have to have PSa look at it to achieve maximum value. Also BBCE is actually cheaper on 90% of their inventory than what market currently will bring.
DPeck I can't tell who you are. Do you like collecting or do you like educating us with all the economics crap? Anyone who looks at your posts like I did right now is going to see a distructive dialog towards our industry and a very boring discussion on how the world financially operates.
...just saying.
...just saying.
<< <i>"This is a great business model. They better hope the justice department never gets interested in trading cards. LOL "---- Dpeck
You are insuating that BBCE is doing something wrong and need to be caught as if it is underhanded and illegal. The LOL tells me you would like to see that happen.
"A conflict of interest like this doesn't really bother me because it has no impact on me. If it did I might feel differently." DPeck
Why do you care or post on something that has zero impact on you?
"I have purchased items from BBCX and been extremely pleased with the service and quality and would do so again. I just am willing to call a spade a spade." dpeck
So you have unopened boxes which you bought from Steve and you use his services but in the post above you hope the justice department never catches wind of his practice. I personally will not do business with people who are cheats/underhanded.
"BBCX clearly meets this description. They are the single supplier of vintage wax boxes of trading cards. The reason they meet this description is in order to get full retail value you must have their logo on it. Sure there are others like Fritsch but the amount of product they move is a fraction of what BBCX does and even some collectors would end up getting those boxes wrapped for potentially adding value. Dpeck
I have boxes from Fritsch that are not wrapped by BBCE. Yes I will need to have a wrap on the box to sell it for max value. I also have a nrmt/mint collection of baseball sets. If I want full value for those sets I am going to have to have PSa look at it to achieve maximum value. Also BBCE is actually cheaper on 90% of their inventory than what market currently will bring.
DPeck I can't tell who you are. Do you like collecting or do you like educating us with all the economics crap? Anyone who looks at your posts like I did right now is going to see a distructive dialog towards our industry and a very boring discussion on how the world financially operates. >>
The first one was a joke but you can take it how you did. I would think the LOL might have been a hint and in reality it had more political undertones then anything if you want to deem it derogatory. There are loads of industries with very little competition and clearly this is one of them.
How on earth could my comments be considered destructive? It is pretty clear. I have gotten PM's from people I would have never expected on this that are 100% in agreement with what I have stated.
I am not suggesting they are commiting fraud. They just have massive market power and I am pointing this out.
I stay out of the threads about sports stats and so forth becuase I really have nothing to add and I would just be guessing. It surprises me the kick back I get sometimes in these type threads when it is where my background lends itself most. Markets.
This whole unopened thing is like a cult. If you say anything other then prices should go to the moon you are a hater or any number of other horrible things. It is not a personal attack on you or anyone.
I love to collect cards. I am surpised you question that.
There was a thread a few weeks ago that everyone posted their profession. I don't recall what your's was but whatever it was if you were a true expert in the field I would most certainly take your opinion at face value and if it differed I would do some research and see what others thought.
I feel good about the things I write on this forum and add value. If you don't see it that way then so be it.
<< <i>Dpeck has a monopoly on Wrestling All-Star Cards.
...just saying. >>
That was the point of buying so many.
<< <i>
<< <i>Dpeck has a monopoly on Wrestling All-Star Cards.
...just saying. >>
That was the point of buying so many. >>
+1
Not jabbing you, I love and admire your set.
Question: I always thought that a monopoly has to involve a product that is a necessity. This not so?
<< <i>DPeck
... I don't need to know what your collection consists of but you seem to offer very little when it comes to collecting. And a person with 6384 posts should have more to offer than this that you have. No offense just stating the obvious. >>
DPeck has posted hundreds, if not thousands, of times about wrestling cards. He provides tremendous insight into that corner of the collecting world, market trends in that arena, and so on. If you haven't seen his many, many posts about collecting, it's because you're trying not to. No offense just stating the obvious.
Chiefs Fan1st Unopened Authenticating
I cannot shrink-wrap, but I can offer really cool post-it-notes in various colors
I only charge 4%. Now we have a viable option
I dunno guys, would a better company name be
Monopoly Buster Brians Unopened Authentication
<< <i>As of right now, BBCE aint the only game in town..... Announcing
Chiefs Fan1st Unopened Authenticating
I cannot shrink-wrap, but I can offer really cool post-it-notes in various colors
I only charge 4%. Now we have a viable option
I dunno guys, would a better company name be
Monopoly Buster Brians Unopened Authentication
Where do I send my boxes. I have some 88 Donruss and 90 Score boxes I want authenticated.
James
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Dpeck has a monopoly on Wrestling All-Star Cards.
...just saying. >>
That was the point of buying so many. >>
+1
Not jabbing you, I love and admire your set.
Question: I always thought that a monopoly has to involve a product that is a necessity. This not so? >>
I wasn't joking.
No it does not.
The card grading industry for example is an oligopoly.
Here is a definition.
Monopoly power
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A pure monopoly is defined as a single supplier. While there only a few cases of pure monopoly, monopoly ‘power’ is much more widespread, and can exist even when there is more than one supplier – such in markets with only two firms, called a duopoly, and a few firms, an oligopoly.
In BBCE's situation, I don't see how a govt agency would consider them a monopoly. I can buy unopened boxes from many sources. In fact Dave & Adams and SteelCity have expanded their unopened vintage selection and are getting prices at BBCE levels. As a consumer, my choice is not limited by BBCE.
As for abusing their power, I think Steve's track record speaks for itself. BBCE is not a charity and Steve needs to make a living. Considering all of the frauds that have come and go in our hobby (WIWAG, Maestro anyone?), Steve is an asset to our hobby along with other dealers.
BBCE's position isn't a lock on anything. As many pointed out, it could down at any time under the right circumstances. Remember when Beckett used to be the unquestioned leader in card pricing?
<< <i>This whole unopened thing is like a cult. If you say anything other then prices should go to the moon you are a hater or any number of other horrible things. It is not a personal attack on you or anyone. >>
Everyone can have an opinion and chime in where they feel the need to contribute. As I said before the only things I see from you in something against BBCE or financial stuff. I don't read the threads regarding wrestling cards so you might have some great insight to that market and perhaps have something constructive to offer. I could not tell you one thing about that market so I have no interest in reading it or replying to it. I am not an authority on baseball cards or unopened material but I have a passion for this hobby and enjoy speaking with other collectors about it. If you have something negative to say about what I collect I will usually let you say your two cents and not respond. I personally feel you have something against unopened collectors, BBCE and the increased pricing of these products.
No hard feelings.
<< <i>
<< <i>This whole unopened thing is like a cult. If you say anything other then prices should go to the moon you are a hater or any number of other horrible things. It is not a personal attack on you or anyone. >>
Everyone can have an opinion and chime in where they feel the need to contribute. As I said before the only things I see from you in something against BBCE or financial stuff. I don't read the threads regarding wrestling cards so you might have some great insight to that market and perhaps have something constructive to offer. I could not tell you one thing about that market so I have no interest in reading it or replying to it. I am not an authority on baseball cards or unopened material but I have a passion for this hobby and enjoy speaking with other collectors about it. If you have something negative to say about what I collect I will usually let you say your two cents and not respond. I personally feel you have something against unopened collectors, BBCE and the increased pricing of these products.
No hard feelings. >>
You just made my point. Anyone who has anything to say about it that is not to the moon is against you in some way. It couldn't be further from the truth.
I have nothing to be jealous of. Perhaps you haven't seen what has happened to the cards I collect.
The BBCE wrap increases the value of your box on a perceived level. If YOU have a good reputation, then the BBCE wrap does not really do anything for you or for the price of the material you have to sell. Unfortunately, most people do not have enough of a historical record of selling to justify paying the extra money to them, so they therefore can purchase the service offered by BBCE.
I dont consider monopolies to be all that bad, even though the government may. If you have one company that does a job well and does it so well that no other company can match their service, is it a bad thing? Would you rather have two or more other crappy companies putting out the same product? If you do, then please feel free to buy graded cards from Graded Rookies Authenticated or one of the other bogus services, after all, they are helping PSA to not have a monopoly.
<< <i>If no one else offers a service or a product, is it the fault of the one person that does?
The BBCE wrap increases the value of your box on a perceived level. If YOU have a good reputation, then the BBCE wrap does not really do anything for you or for the price of the material you have to sell. Unfortunately, most people do not have enough of a historical record of selling to justify paying the extra money to them, so they therefore can purchase the service offered by BBCE.
I dont consider monopolies to be all that bad, even though the government may. If you have one company that does a job well and does it so well that no other company can match their service, is it a bad thing? Would you rather have two or more other crappy companies putting out the same product? If you do, then please feel free to buy graded cards from Graded Rookies Authenticated or one of the other bogus services, after all, they are helping PSA to not have a monopoly. >>
I don't consider it bad either. That was never the intent of any of my comments. BBCX has gained a loyal following and this is from years of hard work.
That is what has led to the current situation as I see it.
<< <i>Its time for some funny pictures. Can someone post some please? >>
Done.
Today, Apple has a huge strangle hold of the high tech market. It won't last into the 2020's. PSA and BBCE might always be the best, but they will not have the dominance they do forever. Too many opportunities to create competition and make a lot of money.
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>
<< <i>You're right. Questioning any practice of BBCX should be off limits on this board. >>
I really hope this is not a serious statement. >>
Hi - just got back from the movies.
If you look above - and if you watch Big Bang - you will read that "Sheldon would NOT get this Curt" - or something like that?
On the show, at one point Leonard put up a sign "Sarcasm."
<< <i>
<< <i>A few points to make:
1) This is not and never has been a service that BBCE has advertised or even attempted to market. This revenue stream basically fell in their lap. Since the unopened market went nuts they've been flooded with requests to wrap stuff for a fee. Literally hundreds of collectors and dealers begging them to take their money. Anybody that runs a business and would not take advantage of a situation like this would be insane, especially considering there's nothing wrong or unethical about giving an expert opinion on a piece of merchandise.
2) There is a difference between having a monopoly and being the foremost authority on something. With the wrapping, you are not paying for a physical product. You are paying for an expert opinion; no different than a JSA COA on an autograph. The wrapping acts as the COA, and the COA significantly increases the value of the item because it increases consumer confidence. Most in the hobby respect Steve's opinion on wax more than anybody else's so they pay for that opinion. Whether he sells the same merchandise or not is irrelevant because he only stands to lose his market position if he wraps bogus product and sells it.
Lee >>
+1 >>
+2
At this point, it would be in our best interests to get back to cards and not get into a protracted philosophical discussion. You guys know way more about this stuff than I. But, I just hate to see people potentially argue - it's almost like politics?
My last point is for Chris.
And something that I got off track about - an apology - I was wondering how BBCEx did their authentication and shrink wrap sealing - and "what" they charge.
Thanx Chris (Guru) for the info!
I honestly don't have any info besides what they told me on the phone. And that it was 5% of market value. Sorry that I've got nothing else to add.