Lessons learned at the National
mrmint23
Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
1) In general, it appears eBay is the low price place and prices at the National will be 20-30% greater than eBay.
2) High grade vintage continues to sky rocket
3) Centered cards will always come at a premium
4) Some dealers do not understand cash sales do not incur eBay, paypal, shipping fees...thus they could discount the card
5) Has a hobby ever died? With the Techy generation coming of age will they be interested in 50-70 year old cardboard?
6) You must attend at least 1 National before you can be considered a collector.
My 2 1/2 cents.
2) High grade vintage continues to sky rocket
3) Centered cards will always come at a premium
4) Some dealers do not understand cash sales do not incur eBay, paypal, shipping fees...thus they could discount the card
5) Has a hobby ever died? With the Techy generation coming of age will they be interested in 50-70 year old cardboard?
6) You must attend at least 1 National before you can be considered a collector.
My 2 1/2 cents.
0
Comments
<< <i>1) In general, it appears eBay is the low price place and prices at the National will be 20-30% greater than eBay.
2) High grade vintage continues to sky rocket
3) Centered cards will always come at a premium
4) Some dealers do not understand cash sales do not incur eBay, paypal, shipping fees...thus they could discount the card
5) Has a hobby ever died? With the Techy generation coming of age will they be interested in 50-70 year old cardboard?
6) You must attend at least 1 National before you can be considered a collector.
My 2 1/2 cents. >>
1 to 3) All common knowledge.
4) The one holding the card sets the price. See #1 and buy it on eBay for 20% to 30% less.
5) Those looking to get something back out of there collection one day better hope so.
6) False.
<< <i>6) You must attend at least 1 National before you can be considered a collector >>
Defend your position.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
4) Some dealers do not understand cash sales do not incur eBay, paypal, shipping fees...thus they could discount the card
In reality, some collectors do not realize dealers pay $1000+ for a table, several hundred in traveling expenses and labor if they choose to employ help. That's a tough nut to get back and turn a profit on top. Overhead on setting up at the National is way higher for most dealers than selling on ebay, except for a select few super high volume dealers. The sad reality is that probably 70% of the National dealers have no business setting up there because they don't turn enough of a profit to make it worthwhile. If they spent a solid 5 days listing on ebay they would make way more on the same exact cards.
6) You must attend at least 1 National before you can be considered a collector.
Just an absurd statement. Someone who is trying to collect every Isaac Bruce card and scours ebay daily for them is just as much of a collector as you or I, regardless of whether he or she ever attends a National.
<< <i> Someone who is trying to collect every Isaac Bruce card and scours ebay daily for them is just as much of a collector as you or I, regardless of whether he or she ever attends a National. >>
Are Issac Bruce cards a good investment?
Better than a bunch of ratty Clemente and Brock rookies.
<< <i>6) You must attend at least 1 National before you can be considered a collector. >>
So I'm just a hoarder with a good eye? I can live with that for 2 more years.
I agree, that seller is dumb. If you're turning down a $1000+ sale over less than 5% of the sale price then you're doing it wrong. Hitting the BIN in front of him then explaining the math would've been classic: "Congrats, you just got $1320 for the card which is sitting in your paypal acct instead of this $1350 cash you could be holding in your hand right now. Oh and I'm going to make you ship it to me instead of taking it with me, so there's another $10 out of your pocket since your listing says it's going to be insured. Nice business model Warren Buffet."
<< <i>Let me explain #4 and what Kirk is meaning........ >>
It's a little pompous of you to assume that we don't know what he means.
The seller being an idiot does not preclude him from pricing HIS card however he wants. Since the thought of costing yourself an extra $100 crossed your mind just to teach him a lesson, perhaps you and he were on a level playing field.
<< <i>Let me explain #4 and what Kirk is meaning. I spoke with a dealer the first day about a card at his table that he had listed for $1,500.00 on ebay as a buy it now. I offered him $ 1,350.00 for the card which would have been more he would have gotten if I decided to hit the buy it now button. He said $ 1,400.00 was the lowest he would take. I realize it is his card and he doesn't have to sell the card at my offer. Now the show is over and he still has the card. It is still listed on ebay for a 1,500.00 buy it now. I just don't get it. I was tempted to just hit the buy it now button on my phone right in front of him. I would have paid more but he would have earned less on the card. Oh well I'll keep looking. >>
His fees may only come out to 8% after a top rated seller discount. So with Paypal fees, he nets right around $1320. What's wrong with his $1400 offer that saves both of you nearly equal amounts of money? He nets around $80 more, and you save $100 off his ebay price?
BS
<< <i>Last one should say that everyone should go if they can >>
I agree with that. I wish I could go.
<< <i>
<< <i>Let me explain #4 and what Kirk is meaning. I spoke with a dealer the first day about a card at his table that he had listed for $1,500.00 on ebay as a buy it now. I offered him $ 1,350.00 for the card which would have been more he would have gotten if I decided to hit the buy it now button. He said $ 1,400.00 was the lowest he would take. I realize it is his card and he doesn't have to sell the card at my offer. Now the show is over and he still has the card. It is still listed on ebay for a 1,500.00 buy it now. I just don't get it. I was tempted to just hit the buy it now button on my phone right in front of him. I would have paid more but he would have earned less on the card. Oh well I'll keep looking. >>
His fees may only come out to 8% after a top rated seller discount. So with Paypal fees, he nets right around $1320. What's wrong with his $1400 offer that saves both of you nearly equal amounts of money? He nets around $80 more, and you save $100 off his ebay price? >>
I do agree that we both would save money. The card wasn't worth the 1400.00. I bought the same card at the show for 1350.00 on the last day. Even though it is his choice to sell at the 1400.00 price we both could have also won with the 1350.00 offer.
<< <i>Oh well I'll keep looking. >>
<< <i>I bought the same card at the show for 1350.00 on the last day >>
I'm confused. So which is true?
<< <i>
<< <i>Oh well I'll keep looking. >>
<< <i>I bought the same card at the show for 1350.00 on the last day >>
I'm confused. So which is true? >>
I meant I purchased another Dr J Rookie in a PSA 9 from another dealer for 1350. I would have considered buying both cards.
* National is fun to go to and we try to go every year except for a few year hiatus. Selection of some items like a Cracker Jack Cobb's, Shoeless Joe's, Goudey Ruth's... are only visible at a show like this or in the larger auctions - Mike High, Memory Lane, REA... That itself is a great reason to go and see these in person. Memory Lane has some great CJ's in their auction and Card Country(Jeff) had a beauty of a Shoeless Joe.
* if you are under 11-12 and looking to buy a bunch of cards for under a $1 it is a great bargain. The boys tore it up on these cards and it was fun to watch them enjoy getting cards of players they enjoy - did not care about price. This is what it is all about.
* Dealers seem to fall into a few categories - those that sell unopened wax, those that sell classic Vintage, and those that sell BGS 9.5 cards for $200-600 of Bowman Chrome cards that will be $50 in a couple of years.
* Certain dealers have fallen off that used to be big time in terms of sales and inventory - kind of sad to see. Some new ones have emerged, and the best inventory I saw of PSA items was Card Country - just outstanding stuff from the 50's through the 70's and prices were accurate.
* some dealers do have some nice stuff, but their pricing is off and that is their choice. When your inventory is still there a year later on nice stuff your prices are too high. Saw some cards that were nice but did not warrant a 20-40% premium over recent auction prices.
* Love going by the 707 booth to see that huge pile of inventory, but pricing there can be interesting. 1968 Mantle in a PSA 8 for $1000?
* Dealers that claim they have table fees and travel costs are fun to deal with. I remember years ago having that conversation with a dealer that used that line of reasoning when pricing a card. I politely told him that it is a part of business just like advertising... I loved the look on his face when I asked him if I should pay less because I too had costs - airfare, hotel, entrance fee, supplies, food cost... After I spent a grand on that stuff why should I not get a price break just like him?
* prices on Ebay are cheaper and better selection, but being at the National is like watching the game on a 60" TV or going to the game. More expensive to go to the park, more headaches, fewer amenities, but the experience makes it worth the while.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
T222's PSA 1 or better
I noticed this as well. I also had this experience with a couple local shops in the past couple months. Seems like the card dealer is evolving.
1) Ty Cobb is better than Pete Rose
2) The greatest hitter of all time is Ted Williams
3) Who Carl Yastrzemski was
and
4) Tim Tebow signed with the Colts
<< <i>Lessons learned from not going to the National
1) Ty Cobb is better than Pete Rose
2) The greatest hitter of all time is Ted Williams
and
3) Tim Tebow signed with the Colts >>
You forgot: Ichiro is better than Honus Wagner, and Paul Konerko is also as good as Ty Cobb...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>Lessons learned from not going to the National
1) Ty Cobb is better than Pete Rose
2) The greatest hitter of all time is Ted Williams
and
3) Tim Tebow signed with the Colts >>
You forgot: Ichiro is better than Honus Wagner, and Paul Konerko is also as good as Ty Cobb...
I forgot I learned who Carl Yastrzemski was too. I edited my post to include that too!
<< <i> "Congrats, you just got $1320 for the card which is sitting in your paypal acct instead of this $1350 cash you could be holding in your hand right now. Oh and I'm going to make you ship it to me instead of taking it with me, so there's another $10 out of your pocket since your listing says it's going to be insured. Nice business model Warren Buffet." >>
*chortle*
<< <i>I have been going to the National for close to 20 years and still enjoy it, and took the family with me this year as well. Needless to say the boys had a blast and picked up some nice cards, and amazing thing is how few kids go to the National. A few things to comment on from what I have observed over the years:
* National is fun to go to and we try to go every year except for a few year hiatus. Selection of some items like a Cracker Jack Cobb's, Shoeless Joe's, Goudey Ruth's... are only visible at a show like this or in the larger auctions - Mike High, Memory Lane, REA... That itself is a great reason to go and see these in person. Memory Lane has some great CJ's in their auction and Card Country(Jeff) had a beauty of a Shoeless Joe.
* if you are under 11-12 and looking to buy a bunch of cards for under a $1 it is a great bargain. The boys tore it up on these cards and it was fun to watch them enjoy getting cards of players they enjoy - did not care about price. This is what it is all about.
* Dealers seem to fall into a few categories - those that sell unopened wax, those that sell classic Vintage, and those that sell BGS 9.5 cards for $200-600 of Bowman Chrome cards that will be $50 in a couple of years.
* Certain dealers have fallen off that used to be big time in terms of sales and inventory - kind of sad to see. Some new ones have emerged, and the best inventory I saw of PSA items was Card Country - just outstanding stuff from the 50's through the 70's and prices were accurate.
* some dealers do have some nice stuff, but their pricing is off and that is their choice. When your inventory is still there a year later on nice stuff your prices are too high. Saw some cards that were nice but did not warrant a 20-40% premium over recent auction prices.
* Love going by the 707 booth to see that huge pile of inventory, but pricing there can be interesting. 1968 Mantle in a PSA 8 for $1000?
* Dealers that claim they have table fees and travel costs are fun to deal with. I remember years ago having that conversation with a dealer that used that line of reasoning when pricing a card. I politely told him that it is a part of business just like advertising... I loved the look on his face when I asked him if I should pay less because I too had costs - airfare, hotel, entrance fee, supplies, food cost... After I spent a grand on that stuff why should I not get a price break just like him?
* prices on Ebay are cheaper and better selection, but being at the National is like watching the game on a 60" TV or going to the game. More expensive to go to the park, more headaches, fewer amenities, but the experience makes it worth the while. >>
I learned that I should have written down a card table # or looked more carefully/made an offer on a card the first time around. I saw a '67 Mantle PSA 6 that I liked but did not look that closely at it, thinking I would come back later. When I attempted to find it later I couldn't find it/remember which dealer had it.
<< <i>On the offer of $1350, maybe the dealer thought you were bluffing and would pay $1400 or come back later to pay it...
I learned that I should have written down a card table # or looked more carefully/made an offer on a card the first time around. I saw a '67 Mantle PSA 6 that I liked but did not look that closely at it, thinking I would come back later. When I attempted to find it later I couldn't find it/remember which dealer had it. >>
I guess I'm getting a little old because I find I have trouble finding a dealer with a card that I wanted to come back to at my local 20 table show.
<< <i>On the offer of $1350, maybe the dealer thought you were bluffing and would pay $1400 or come back later to pay it...
I learned that I should have written down a card table # or looked more carefully/made an offer on a card the first time around. I saw a '67 Mantle PSA 6 that I liked but did not look that closely at it, thinking I would come back later. When I attempted to find it later I couldn't find it/remember which dealer had it. >>
A lot of people learn that one the hard way. I always keep a note pad and write down the aisle number so I remember where I saw something, and we also use the IPhone to take photos of cards we like. The reason for this is that some dealers might have multiple versions of a Mantle, and having ten serial number helps to identify which one you were looking at previously. The other thing you will find with the very large PSA dealers is that not all of their inventory is either out or visible. They carry so much inventory that they might put it out by year and in numerical order, and in some cases PSA Mantle's were not even visible unless you uncovered a pile.
<< <i>I learned that I should have written down a card table # or looked more carefully/made an offer on a card the first time around. I saw a '67 Mantle PSA 6 that I liked but did not look that closely at it, thinking I would come back later. When I attempted to find it later I couldn't find it/remember which dealer had it. >>
Exactly!! I even mentioned that while talking with CPAMike. I have been to many local shows over the years, but I didnt really fully
grasp what I would get into at the natty!! Oh well, I was mostly interested in the wax, and I didnt have much trouble finding that
I understand once you narrow your collecting focus, it's harder to come across cards. But if I can't find ANYTHING to purchase at a giant show like the Nationals, it left me frustrated and puzzled. Just my 2 cents.
<< <i>Don't take this personally but your perception of reality on #4 is way off:
4) Some dealers do not understand cash sales do not incur eBay, paypal, shipping fees...thus they could discount the card
In reality, some collectors do not realize dealers pay $1000+ for a table, several hundred in traveling expenses and labor if they choose to employ help. That's a tough nut to get back and turn a profit on top. Overhead on setting up at the National is way higher for most dealers than selling on ebay, except for a select few super high volume dealers. The sad reality is that probably 70% of the National dealers have no business setting up there because they don't turn enough of a profit to make it worthwhile. If they spent a solid 5 days listing on ebay they would make way more on the same exact cards.
6) You must attend at least 1 National before you can be considered a collector.
Just an absurd statement. Someone who is trying to collect every Isaac Bruce card and scours ebay daily for them is just as much of a collector as you or I, regardless of whether he or she ever attends a National. >>
+1
<< <i>Have never attended a very large show. Heard this asked one time......What % of people there that were buying vintage are African American? >>
Mickey, I would say the number is VERY low. Most I saw were buying/selling the new auto rookie type cards.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
<< <i>Have never attended a very large show. Heard this asked one time......What % of people there that were buying vintage are African American? >>
From my observation at this year's National, it was less than 1%.
<< <i>Have never attended a very large show. Heard this asked one time......What % of people there that were buying vintage are African American? >>
Mickey, I agree with Mark very low amount. If I worked for one of the major card companies this would be one of my goals to reach ALL people. Huge market to reach from minorities to females..Lots of room for growth.