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This 26-d Buff could very well be the deal of the year for me....
crazyhounddog
Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭✭
So far it already is. I was down at a B&M last week shuffling through some Buffs in the old staple flips when I ran across this 26-d Buff. The seller had it marked au with a ridiculous price attached to it. Ridiculously cheap!! So, for the price he was asking I thought to myself either he felt the coin would grade lower than au or he felt as it was a problem coin and would grade genuine. So I low balled him. At that point he didn't even look at it and took my offer, I was bowled over. Not only is this Buff not au and problem free, I'm comfortable grading this one ms-63. Do you concur? Honestly, I've seen 26-d buffs graded 64 that look just like this one does, weakly struck like mush. I'll be sending it in to our host this week for grading.
Thanks for looking and happy hunting Joe
Thanks for looking and happy hunting Joe
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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EAC 6024
<< <i>Hey Joe in hand how does that front leg look, is it a bit weaker than the rest of the reverse strike? Also right now I see a 62-63+ for eye appeal according to coinfacts images for comparison. Take a look at this VF20 and think about what your coin would look like worn down.
Text >>
I can't get your text to come up. Are you referring to the pcgs coin facts? If so I am a member and I look it up if ya wanna point me in the right direction. But, the front leg looks to be par with the rest of the reverse.
<< <i>I'm with jdimmick on this one. What does the market say on such pieces? Do they move in UNC holders looking like this? >>
Yes, I find these 26-d's to be very marketable as it is a semi key date and kinda tough to locate with average to above average luster. When it comes to a good strike, that's a completely different story as the 26-d is one of the toughest buffs to find with "full details" really tough!! A 26-d with full details, even in 64, if the seller knows what he or she is doing will do VERY well when selling if they stick to their guns if the price is NOT over the top but fair. Most all Buffs in the twenties from branch mints are weakly struck and command higher prices with great strikes and full details. Most folks not familiar with the series mistakes weak strikes for wear and if your careful you can make a few dollars. Thanks to all for the comments, much appreciated. Joe
<< <i>Nice pickup! So why did these come so weakly struck from the branch mints during the 20s? I know the WWII era coins such as the merc and walkers had weak strike problems because of inexperienced mint employees. >>
Overextended usage of the dies. The weakness and lack of details from weak dies are due to incomplete metal displacement. That why on so many of these buffs from the twenties you can see the flow lines in the fields. You don't see that kind of problems these days
<< <i>
<< <i>Nice pickup! So why did these come so weakly struck from the branch mints during the 20s? I know the WWII era coins such as the merc and walkers had weak strike problems because of inexperienced mint employees. >>
Overextended usage of the dies. The weakness and lack of details from weak dies are due to incomplete metal displacement. That why on so many of these buffs from the twenties you can see the flow lines in the fields. You don't see that kind of problems these days
OK that makes sense too. Good to know.
<< <i>Yup see it now it was that bit of shadow that made me think it could be an abraded die in a high grade as opposed to the other. It would be something to get a high grade in this variety! >>
I never get that lucky . /If ya keep at it especially with varieties you might be surprised what people overlook. It's good you brought that up, good stuff!!
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
And you're bragging about it?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>The seller had it marked au with a ridiculous price attached to it. Ridiculously cheap!! So, for the price he was asking I thought to myself either he felt the coin would grade lower than au or he felt as it was a problem coin and would grade genuine. So I low balled him.
And you're bragging about it? >>
Maybe a little.
<< <i>The seller had it marked au with a ridiculous price attached to it. Ridiculously cheap!! So, for the price he was asking I thought to myself either he felt the coin would grade lower than au or he felt as it was a problem coin and would grade genuine. So I low balled him.
And you're bragging about it? >>
Its just a nickel, you low ball him at 2 or 3 cents?
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>
<< <i>The seller had it marked au with a ridiculous price attached to it. Ridiculously cheap!! So, for the price he was asking I thought to myself either he felt the coin would grade lower than au or he felt as it was a problem coin and would grade genuine. So I low balled him.
And you're bragging about it? >>
Its just a nickel, you low ball him at 2 or 3 cents?
When buying a raw coin I'm the one taking the risk. I most always come in low. This coin was no exception.
Good PU
Steve
To my eye that VF-20 has nearly as much meat, and in some areas more, than the UNC coin.
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
a MS60 there is something wrong . Strike regardless of date and mint and series
should play a strong role. The higher the grade a coin receives the better the strike
should be. JMHO.
knowledge is power and specializing in a series is a wise thing to do. having the knowledge to realize that the branch Mint dies were overused for this series, resulting in weak detail on Mint State coins, is something Joe took advantage of, though as described it raises a few questions(and at least my eyebrows). why the lowball offer?? why is it OK when the knowledge advantage is in the favor of the collector and things end up as they did here?? why is it not OK when the knowledge advantage is in the favor of the dealer and things end up vice-a-versa??
to put it another way --- Joe walked into a shop and offered the dealer this coin as an AU and then sold it at the "lowball" offer he received. the dealer just happened to be a member here and he came to brag about his Rip for the week. what would the replies be like??..............................they would be just like I'd expect. knowledge is power, it should be used to the advantage of the one who holds it. unfortunately, with regard to that commodity at this forum there is quite a bit of a double standard with the attendant rationalization. I don't really think Joe did anything wrong, why would I think a dealer had done anything if the roles were reversed??
rationalize away, especially you, Steve.
Here's a well struck toner in the 'right' holder.....
<< <i>I fear that Steve will assail me for sticking up for dealers, but I'll take the risk.
knowledge is power and specializing in a series is a wise thing to do. having the knowledge to realize that the branch Mint dies were overused for this series, resulting in weak detail on Mint State coins, is something Joe took advantage of, though as described it raises a few questions(and at least my eyebrows). why the lowball offer?? why is it OK when the knowledge advantage is in the favor of the collector and things end up as they did here?? why is it not OK when the knowledge advantage is in the favor of the dealer and things end up vice-a-versa??
to put it another way --- Joe walked into a shop and offered the dealer this coin as an AU and then sold it at the "lowball" offer he received. the dealer just happened to be a member here and he came to brag about his Rip for the week. what would the replies be like??..............................they would be just like I'd expect. knowledge is power, it should be used to the advantage of the one who holds it. unfortunately, with regard to that commodity at this forum there is quite a bit of a double standard with the attendant rationalization. I don't really think Joe did anything wrong, why would I think a dealer had done anything if the roles were reversed??
rationalize away, especially you, Steve.
I've had dealers lowball me for years , I've also had those same dealers teach me a great amount about the coin market. The OP is happy about picking up a great pick up from someone who makes a living buying and selling coins. It's not as if he ripped off the old lady next door.
New Member
welcome aboard. I'm not certain what your point may be, I will only say that my previous post was directed towards the prevailing opinion of many forum members that it is bad when a dealer uses knowledge against a collector but good when the opposite happens. I think both are OK.
If I were purchasing a used car, with no warranty would ya feel I low balled the car dealer? The coin is raw! I NEVER pay top dollar for a raw coin. I have been burned in the past and I can't say I like it very much. The dealer excepted my offer what's the BIG problem. I guess this post of mine just took a left turn into the wall. Should I apologize for low balling the dealer? Really?
<< <i>Cacoinguy
New Member
welcome aboard. I'm not certain what your point may be, I will only say that my previous post was directed towards the prevailing opinion of many forum members that it is bad when a dealer uses knowledge against a collector but good when the opposite happens. I think both are OK. >>
I don't think it's bad either way - if a dealer buys something cheaply from a collector it's the collectors fault for not using due diligence in acquiring the information to get the best price from the item they are selling and vice versa. With the internet, coin forums and tpgs it's really not that difficult to get a pretty good idea of what your item is worth. Just takes a little time and research.
<< <i>I wonder,
If I were purchasing a used car, with no warranty would ya feel I low balled the car dealer? The coin is raw! I NEVER pay top dollar for a raw coin. I have been burned in the past and I can't say I like it very much. The dealer excepted my offer what's the BIG problem. I guess this post of mine just took a left turn into the wall. Should I apologize for low balling the dealer? Really?
Much as keets wants it to be, it's not an apples to apples comparison at all in this collector-dealer scenario. The dealer could always have said "thanks, but no thanks" to any offer for his raw coin. That he accepted it probably indicates he made a profit regardless.
The difference is, the dealer is in this to make a living, and should know their biz. The collector is an end-user and presumably not in it to make a living. As a good B&M dealer friend said to me -- I know I've posted this before -- public selling to me, I have a duty of care to not rip them off. Dealer to dealer transactions, watch your own back, all is fair in love and war and business. If a collector cherrypicks my stock out of something I've looked at, labeled and priced, more power to them. If it were THAT important to the dealer, they'd have looked over their stock a little more carefully.
<< <i>Cacoinguy
New Member
welcome aboard. I'm not certain what your point may be, I will only say that my previous post was directed towards the prevailing opinion of many forum members that it is bad when a dealer uses knowledge against a collector but good when the opposite happens. I think both are OK. >>
I have no problem with either a collector or dealer "using their knowledge" in a reasonable arms-length transaction. The problem is when someone, either a collector or dealer, takes advantage of someone in an non-arms-length transaction. I'd have zero problem if the OP's situation happened the other way around.
<< <i>rationalize away, especially you, Steve.
OK Vinnie Babarino
What am I rationalizing? The fact that Joe is bragging a little or that I concur that this 26d may make an MS63
First of all, Its not up to me to Judge how anyone's deal came down as Its None of my Business, However, is it
Joe's fault that the guy didn't even look at it and excepted his offer? Is it Joe's job to educate a dealer (Heck, That
can be like playing with dynamite sometimes).
Or that it may make a MS63, as for grade on this year and mint or the or the others I mentioned, I quit rationalizing
grades for those years ago as sometimes I can't make sense of them, for example I have a 58 P that is MS64FS and
the thing is hammered early die state, sharp and in focus, only thing is its a somewhat dark planchet and decent luster
and I feel it should be a 65, however there is a HUGE Price gap between a 64 and 65 on these, Also I have a 58 P that
blazes with Luster and is white and is a MS66, BUT its a late worn out die state and is mushier than cream of wheat
and you can't even read E PLURIBUS UNUM on it............GO FIGURE
Anyhow I think he could get a 63 and still think its a good PU.
But I have a ? for you now
Would you think it was alright if the guy he scored it from Wasn't on this forum ?
Steve
As for your gamble, the risk/reward is favorable. If it grades MS, it will almost certainly grade 63 making it $500+. However, if it grades less than MS, it will likely be punished for the worn dies and be less than AU.
Steve
<< <i>I'm late in the game on this thread, but as any Buffalo Nickel collector knows, the 26-D often looks like this in MS. If you find one with any amount of detail beyond this one, it will almost certainly grade 64 or better which makes it a four figure coin.
As for your gamble, the risk/reward is favorable. If it grades MS, it will almost certainly grade 63 making it $500+. However, if it grades less than MS, it will likely be punished for the worn dies and be less than AU. >>
Thank you for that as I agree 100%.
This definitely could be an MS coin.
<< <i>Joe, I'm going to be guilty again for peeing in someone's Cheerios and imagining the worst, but are you sure there's no corrosion anywhere on this piece? What's going on along the rims at 1-3 o'clock? What about the central obverse--it looks slightly pockmarked.
This definitely could be an MS coin. >>
Hi bud, I glad you chimed in. It looks to me like the rim did not form well in this area. As far as corrosion goes I don't see it. Looks to me like the metal was stretched do to the worn out dies on the "Liberty" area with this one. I find this to be typical for this date and the worn dies.
this is always the argument and it is a bad one. when a dealer does know his "biz" and uses that knowledge to make a profit he is assailed by guys like you. what should a dealer do according to you??
Note to self . . . never share a cherry pick on this forum unless I'm ready to get ridiculed by the holier-than-thou few ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Personally, years ago, I saw a 24 S Buff in XF which was grossly underpriced in a dealer's case. I mentioned it to him. He thanked me. He said he was in a hurry and priced it as a 24 P.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>The difference is, the dealer is in this to make a living, and should know their biz
this is always the argument and it is a bad one. when a dealer does know his "biz" and uses that knowledge to make a profit he is assailed by guys like you. what should a dealer do according to you?? >>
You may not like it, but it is what it is.
Poo on the "rippin' the poor dealer" folks. Hone your trade and you're less likely to get ripped.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
again, this is generalization that gets made all the time.
I am puzzled as to why there is such an overall negative attitude about dealers at this site, why a bad experience with one or two dealers seems to translate into a sentiment that all of them are bad..................oh, except for so-and-so who's a good guy that I deal with all the time. it's maddening. I have had my share of bad dealings with guys at shows, even bad dealings with some who are members here and held in general high esteem, but that doesn't sour me on the whole group. you have to realize that it works both ways, right?? I have had far more bad experiences with collectors and way, way more with that tweener group, the vest-pocket guys who straddle the fence and seem to comprise more and more average collectors every day.
in the end, what good does it do to constantly harp about it?? if a dealer treats you poorly be done with him and move along.
<< <i>I do however, tend to dislike dealers who represent themselves to an unknowing public
again, this is generalization that gets made all the time.
I am puzzled as to why there is such an overall negative attitude about dealers at this site, why a bad experience with one or two dealers seems to translate into a sentiment that all of them are bad..................oh, except for so-and-so who's a good guy that I deal with all the time. it's maddening. I have had my share of bad dealings with guys at shows, even bad dealings with some who are members here and held in general high esteem, but that doesn't sour me on the whole group. you have to realize that it works both ways, right?? I have had far more bad experiences with collectors and way, way more with that tweener group, the vest-pocket guys who straddle the fence and seem to comprise more and more average collectors every day.
in the end, what good does it do to constantly harp about it?? if a dealer treats you poorly be done with him and move along. >>
The problem is that I think that there are more scammers who find their way into numismatics than into many other lines of work. After all, the only requirement to be a coin dealer is to have access to funds. Invariably, if you are a coin collector, chances are better than not you are going to get screwed as part of the educational process.
Still, I have been fortunate to find a mentor who pointed me in the right direction, and introduced me to some good dealers. After that, I've never had a problem. I know whom to avoid, have a second set of eyes look at any purchase which to me is material, and have looked at enough coins in the series that interest me to spot most of the problems on my own.
I might add that I want to get a nice coin at a fair price. I don't expect a rip, and have never received one. If you are doing business with a dealer, he generally needs 10-5% on the coin, sometimes more, or the deal is not worth his time. Many threads here deal with people trying to get a rip on a coin. A dealer can't stay in business for long if he's on the wrong end of these rips.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Here's one I owned (and sold) for a long time. NGC graded is MS63. The obverse was easily gem but the reverse was mush city.
But, overall, one of the prettiest I've ever seen.
jom
<< <i>There are pretty hard to grade if you don't know where to look. Usually the Buffalo's hip is a good start.
Here's one I owned (and sold) for a long time. NGC graded is MS63. The obverse was easily gem but the reverse was mush city.
But, overall, one of the prettiest I've ever seen.
jom >>
Thant's a great looking 26-D Jom!! A typical mushy strike on the reverse as you've already mentioned. Great eye appeal with this one.