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Hey gold coin experts.............
Manorcourtman
Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
What are your observations on Gold coin grading standards in the past 15 years? Have you seen standards tighten, loosen or stay somewhat consistent of both PCGS and NGC? I haven't seen anyone talk about about Gold standards in recent years. How are/were the two companies standards compared to one another?
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While I think that there are some general comments that would apply there are also series specific changes that may be more important to you.
Some general point focused on the Liberty series which I collect...
1) My option is that the grading services have gone through waves of conservatism and waves of laxity. Currently both are quite consistent which is what is important.
2) There are loads of processed crappy pieces on the market. Scrubbed up AU's, doctored coins in one way or another which damped APR's. When a nice coin that is original comes to market, watch out regardless of holder.
3) NGC is usually good for one grade higher than PCGS, particularly on nice coins. The same coin in an inflated NGC holder may bring roughly the same money as a strong PCGS CAC example in one grade lower.
4) CAC coins sell for a premium above the market acceptable but processed and bright examples which make up 80% of the market.
Latin American Collection
I have old holder 64's that trump many new holder 66's.
<< <i>What are your observations on Gold coin grading standards in the past 15 years? Have you seen standards tighten, loosen or stay somewhat consistent of both PCGS and NGC? I haven't seen anyone talk about about Gold standards in recent years. How are/were the two companies standards compared to one another? >>
I've talked about this in great detail numerous times over the past 5 years. Check the pop reports on MS63-MS67 gold coins from 1998 to 2008 and you'll find your answer. There's really no debate. MS64-MS66 Saints
and MS64-MS66 $20 Libs will show the most enlightening numbers. And I think that's because these are often graded in bulk where min grades are applied. One could probably debate which standards changed the most
over the past 15 years: MS62-MS66 capped bust halves or MS63-MS66 Saints. My vote for which major series grading changed the least over the past 15 years would be PCGS MS65 Seated Dollars. Not considering the
Wells Fargo coins, I'd also say that MS67 Saints have held the line fairly well. MS60-MS62 Saints have also held the line very well and their pops have changed little in the past 15 yrs.
NGC is not a grade looser than PCGS on gold. While I'd agree they are somewhat looser it might only be a couple tenths of a point. The fact that Heritage and others trade MS64 to MS66 saints sight unseen in either holder
should tell you they aren't all that much different. It's about the same difference as with MS64 to MS66 Morgans. In the smaller denominations the PCGS MS65 certainly tends to be the stronger and flashier coin. Still, on
generic quality there is not a huge spread in prices (2-5% typically). A generic MS65 $10 Lib might cost you an extra 3% in a PCGS holder. The generic gold coin market is so large it tends to hold the upper end of the market
down. A CAC sticker might add 5-30% for most MS63-65 coins. That 30% applies more to the bigger coins like the $20 Lib. Solid for the grade MS65 $20 Libs have been hard to find for 5-10 yrs.....just like MS65 CBH's.
<< <i>There are an awful lot of cleaned gold coins in AU holders. >>
That's cuz au is almost uncleaned!
<< <i>Do you know how many 66 non-cac and 65 cac Saints I've seen where Miss Lib's knee looks like she was hacked with a machete? >>
30% of generic 66's tend to be 1908 NM's. So it would make sense that these weakly designed coins that don't strike up well don't have good knee or eagle's breast/lower leg detail.
Most of the MS65 CAC saints I've seen are not hacked up anywhere. They tend to nice surfaces, color, luster, and strike (including a rounded knee). Considering that only around 5-10% of MS65 or MS66 Saints get
stickered, I would expect them to generally be pretty nice. I rarely have run into any specimens that I didn't like. The sight-unseen $20 market almost doesn't care about marks on MS coins. It's only about the assigned
grade and whether there are spots, stains, putty, etc. Considering that gold coins don't really tone, it's fairly easy to get the "marks" portion of the grade correct (same comment for blast white Morgan dollars from a bag).
i bought many of his CAC stickered $20 Saints.