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1991 Bowman Error/Variation
LarkinCollector
Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
I thought this might be interesting for E/V and impacted player collectors and gives the junk wax rippers something to look for. I've seen this first part noted in E/V lists on various forums, but no details or pictures.
1) E Sheet print code variations: All(?) cards on the E sheet can be found with three different sheet codes E**, E*(no gap), E *(gap)
Sample (#703 CL)
I went through one of my sets and identified all the E sheet cards as follows (132 total): 13,14,22,23,24,27,31,33,34,38,39,42,54,61,68(Thome RC),74,83,96,113,117,149,150,156(Everett RC),158,164,172,188(Parrish),189,198,199,203(Salmon RC),206,208,215,233,236,242,250,261(Boone RC),264,266,267,271(Gossage),275,287,290,308,309,315,319(Morris),323,324,326,329,332,337,340,344,346,347,353(Wickman RC),354,366(Frank Thomas),394,405,414,419,423,429(Dawson),430,441,444,450(Rondell White RC),458,460,462,467,475,489,499,500,506(Lieberthal RC),509,512,517,519,521,527,539,544,550(Gonzo RC),551,553,554,556(Biggio),557,558,579,584,587(Javy Lopez RC),588(Deion Sanders),590(Klesko RC),593(Mondessi RC),594,601,604(Karros RC),608,612,615,617,620,626,627,629,635,645,655,662,663,668,669,680,681,683,689,690,699-704(Checklists)
The E*(no gap) and E** cards seem to be produced in roughly equal quantities, with the E *(gap) being far more rare, at least in the small sample size of what I had available. Out of a little over 400 E sheet cards, only 14 were of the E *(gap) variety, so my best guess at this point is about 3-4% of the population. Going through 2 complete (neither factory) sets and 800-1000 loose singles, here's what I'm still missing:
E**: Complete
E*: 68(Thome),199,206,208,242,261,506,556,701
E *: 13,14,22,24,27,31,33,34,39,42,54,74,83,113,117,149,150,158,164,188,215,233,236,250,264,
266,267,271,275,287,290,308,309,315,319,323,326,337,340,344,346,354,366,394,429,450,
460,462,467,475,499,500,509,512,539,550,551,557,558,604,608,612,626,627,629,
669,680,681
If anyone has any of those I'm missing, please PM me.
I've also found a potential 4th variation, but don't have enough samples to confirm it's a unique variation. Some of the E** cards have a clearly bolded first *, while most are printed with neither bolded.
2) Another interesting issue I noticed on the backs of these, a few of the cards had the black bar around the print code/copyright area with a defined "shift". So far I've only focused on the E sheet, but will go through all of these again to see if other sheets may have had a similar issue. Perhaps this is why the E sheet was modified at least a couple times? If anyone has a scan/picture of this sheet, I would be interested to see where these cards line up.
Top->Bottom: #608 Tom Goodwin, #512 Orlando Merced, #150 Lou Whitaker
3) Finally, I haven't seen any designation of SP/DP, but based on the E sheet aligning with the standard Topps sheet size of that time period (132 cards/sheet), there should be either 88 cards double printed or 44 triple printed in this 704 card set w/ 6 sheets (A,B,C,D,E and ** for all the cards with foil on the front). My guess at this point is the ** sheet is the one that is impacted, but perhaps they printed fewer sheets to make the overall quantities equal. If anyone knows of an online resource to sort a set by sheet code, I would be very interested.
1) E Sheet print code variations: All(?) cards on the E sheet can be found with three different sheet codes E**, E*(no gap), E *(gap)
Sample (#703 CL)
I went through one of my sets and identified all the E sheet cards as follows (132 total): 13,14,22,23,24,27,31,33,34,38,39,42,54,61,68(Thome RC),74,83,96,113,117,149,150,156(Everett RC),158,164,172,188(Parrish),189,198,199,203(Salmon RC),206,208,215,233,236,242,250,261(Boone RC),264,266,267,271(Gossage),275,287,290,308,309,315,319(Morris),323,324,326,329,332,337,340,344,346,347,353(Wickman RC),354,366(Frank Thomas),394,405,414,419,423,429(Dawson),430,441,444,450(Rondell White RC),458,460,462,467,475,489,499,500,506(Lieberthal RC),509,512,517,519,521,527,539,544,550(Gonzo RC),551,553,554,556(Biggio),557,558,579,584,587(Javy Lopez RC),588(Deion Sanders),590(Klesko RC),593(Mondessi RC),594,601,604(Karros RC),608,612,615,617,620,626,627,629,635,645,655,662,663,668,669,680,681,683,689,690,699-704(Checklists)
The E*(no gap) and E** cards seem to be produced in roughly equal quantities, with the E *(gap) being far more rare, at least in the small sample size of what I had available. Out of a little over 400 E sheet cards, only 14 were of the E *(gap) variety, so my best guess at this point is about 3-4% of the population. Going through 2 complete (neither factory) sets and 800-1000 loose singles, here's what I'm still missing:
E**: Complete
E*: 68(Thome),199,206,208,242,261,506,556,701
E *: 13,14,22,24,27,31,33,34,39,42,54,74,83,113,117,149,150,158,164,188,215,233,236,250,264,
266,267,271,275,287,290,308,309,315,319,323,326,337,340,344,346,354,366,394,429,450,
460,462,467,475,499,500,509,512,539,550,551,557,558,604,608,612,626,627,629,
669,680,681
If anyone has any of those I'm missing, please PM me.
I've also found a potential 4th variation, but don't have enough samples to confirm it's a unique variation. Some of the E** cards have a clearly bolded first *, while most are printed with neither bolded.
2) Another interesting issue I noticed on the backs of these, a few of the cards had the black bar around the print code/copyright area with a defined "shift". So far I've only focused on the E sheet, but will go through all of these again to see if other sheets may have had a similar issue. Perhaps this is why the E sheet was modified at least a couple times? If anyone has a scan/picture of this sheet, I would be interested to see where these cards line up.
Top->Bottom: #608 Tom Goodwin, #512 Orlando Merced, #150 Lou Whitaker
3) Finally, I haven't seen any designation of SP/DP, but based on the E sheet aligning with the standard Topps sheet size of that time period (132 cards/sheet), there should be either 88 cards double printed or 44 triple printed in this 704 card set w/ 6 sheets (A,B,C,D,E and ** for all the cards with foil on the front). My guess at this point is the ** sheet is the one that is impacted, but perhaps they printed fewer sheets to make the overall quantities equal. If anyone knows of an online resource to sort a set by sheet code, I would be very interested.
0
Comments
I will take a look at my 91 Bowman when I get a chance.
saucywombat@hotmail.com
Dan, I can't take credit for discovering the first, but have seen mentions of quite a few not well known errors/variations that I thought I'd take time to start documenting. Anything I run into along the way is just a bonus and hopefully gets interest in some of these junk wax products since the JWG site isn't updated any longer.
Pretty amazing to notice something like this!
<< <i>Have you cracked any wax or factory sets to see if they have these variances? I am wondering only, for example, all the asterisk with gaps are from either factory sets or from wax.
Pretty amazing to notice something like this! >>
Not yet. I'll have to see how cheap I can pick up a mix to try and determine what came from which source. If there is a pattern and I had to guess, the gaps probably came from factory sets which would explain a low population of loose singles.
#2 - I've found similar black bar shifts on cards from the A/B/C/D sheets as well, seems to be a common back misalignment across all of them.
At least for the E and E* varieties.
<< <i>I'm pretty sure Bowman repeated this variation in 1992.
At least for the E and E* varieties. >>
Yes, I've got that on my list of to-do items as well, but focusing on figuring out all the gold foil cropping differences for that set first. I wish there was an easy way to query all the cards on a specific sheet online, going through the set one-by-one looking at sheet codes is mind numbing.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm pretty sure Bowman repeated this variation in 1992.
At least for the E and E* varieties. >>
Yes, I've got that on my list of to-do items as well, but focusing on figuring out all the gold foil cropping differences for that set first. I wish there was an easy way to query all the cards on a specific sheet online, going through the set one-by-one looking at sheet codes is mind numbing. >>
As for the foil cards. Locate an old issue of Beckett or old annual that still shows the SP designation on some of them. All of the non "SP" foils have cropping variations. Years ago I purchased an uncut sheet of the foil subjects (that hadn't received the foil treatment). On the sheet, there were two sets of the "non SP" players and one set of the "SP" players. Which explains why they were perceived as short-printed at the time.
Foil Variations: 542,551,554,557,559,560,563,566,569,572,575,578,579,581,584,587,590,599,
602,603,605,608,611,614,617,620,623,637,641,645,649,652,655,658,661,667,670,673,676,
682,694
I need to go through quite a few foils still, but have identified the differences in the following:
Have both: 559,563,581,584,599,608,670
ETA: Beckett.com still has the SP designator, that's where I compiled the above list from.
<< <i>I'll probably start a separate thread for the 1992 variations later, but here's what I have as the 'SP' list:
Foil Variations: 542,551,554,557,559,560,563,566,569,572,575,578,579,581,584,587,590,599,
602,603,605,608,611,614,617,620,623,637,641,645,649,652,655,658,661,667,670,673,676,
682,694
I need to go through quite a few foils still, but have identified the differences in the following:
Have both: 559,563,581,584,599,608,670
ETA: Beckett.com still has the SP designator, that's where I compiled the above list from. >>
That's odd, some of those I don't recall being 'SP.' Like Will Clark. But the sheet I had definitely was two sets of some players (Manny for example) and then one set of others (Frank Thomas for example). I had assumed that is why some were considered SP's.
Does this list from the Standard Catalog look correct (set description says there are 18)?: Link
<< <i>If you have a pic of the uncut sheet, I would love to see it. I've been trying to figure out any cropping difference on the Larkin's (since I have more copies of that one than others in the set) and haven't been able to come up with anything. Also, it looks like Beckett.com has changed the SP designation since I put the list together and now they only list 4 SPs, which sounds too low.
Does this list from the Standard Catalog look correct (set description says there are 18)?: Link >>
ETA: Just realized previous post should have said 'non-SP' list.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you have a pic of the uncut sheet, I would love to see it. I've been trying to figure out any cropping difference on the Larkin's (since I have more copies of that one than others in the set) and haven't been able to come up with anything. Also, it looks like Beckett.com has changed the SP designation since I put the list together and now they only list 4 SPs, which sounds too low.
Does this list from the Standard Catalog look correct (set description says there are 18)?: Link >>
ETA: Just realized previous post should have said 'non-SP' list. >>
Wow, brings back memeories! Those noted are exactly the ones that Beckett used to designate as SP. I remember building sets of it for a card shop I worked at and Rick Hirtensteiner was always one of the last cards needed to finish the set.
Unfortunately, I don't have any pics of them, lost the entire laptop a year or so ago. But I recall the printer who cut it up for me ruined a bunch of them. Manny and Frank were spared and sold but I may have just tossed most of the damaged sheet subjects.
According to Beckett.com there are only 4 SPs, leaving the potential cropping non-SP variations on the following:
542,551,554,557,559,560,563,566,569,572,575,578,579,581,584,587,590,599,
602,603,605,608,611,614,617,620,623,637,641,645,649,652,655,658,661,667,670,673,676,
682,694
According to Standard Catalog 2010 there are 18 SPs, leaving the potential cropping non-SP variations on the following:
557,559,560,563,566,569,572,575,578,579,581,584,587,590,599,603,605,608,
611,614,617,620,623,670,673,676,682
I'm not sure I fully trust either list, Standard Catalog had some cards that were non-foil listed as foil and vice versa (i.e. #568 is listed as a foil), but the 18 SPs seems closer. My Standard Catalog list above is a combination of the full Beckett foil list minus the 18 SPs listed in Standard Catalog.
61 Ever Magallanes
332 Todd Ritchie
The shifting you were looking at
2 from D sheet -
335 Scott Erickson
361 Dan Pasqua
1 from A -
487 Von Hayes
saucywombat@hotmail.com
<< <i>1991 Bowman E__* - Had two on your list
61 Ever Magallanes
332 Todd Ritchie
The shifting you were looking at
2 from D sheet -
335 Scott Erickson
361 Dan Pasqua
1 from A -
487 Von Hayes >>
Thanks for checking! If you're interested in parting with the two E *(gap) cards, let me know.
<< <i>Updated needs list. Also picked up a box of cellos recently where all the E sheet cards showing on the back were of the E* (no gap) variety. >>
A nice bonus, since the cello box won't be getting ripped, I went ahead and checked for stars showing. I found 2 with Tony Gwynn on top, 1 with Kirby Puckett on back, and my personal fav, 1 with Barry Larkin on front that will be shown in my Larkin cards/memorabilia thread soon.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>I'm seeing this thread for the first time. I'm actually disappointed that 597 isn't on the E sheet. I love little variations like this. I have several from various Donruss and Topps products. >>
There's couple I'm disappointed don't impact my player collection as well, no Larkin in this one either. Looks like Butler missed the E sheet variation on 1992 Bowman as well, though it's interesting he was assigned the same number in both the 91 & 92 sets.
There's some Fleer one's that impact entire sets as well, check the text on the back of your 1991 Fleer #257s (should be obvious from font size and line wrapping).
On a side note, the gum from these packs must be of the extra sugary variety and has ruined two cards/pack due to seepage through the first card. Thankfully for my purposes, it's only A/B sheet cards due to gum placement on top and sequencing.
<< <i>It's getting curiouser and curiouser. I was assuming from a given product all of the E sheet cards would be of a consistent variety, but received a wax box from Kruk today and am finding a mix of E* (no gap) and E * (gap) varieties even within a pack. So far, 5 gap and 18 no gap through the first stack of packs.
On a side note, the gum from these packs must be of the extra sugary variety and has ruined two cards/pack due to seepage through the first card. Thankfully for my purposes, it's only A/B sheet cards due to gum placement on top and sequencing. >>
Second stack of packs flipped the odds 17 with gap, and only 3 without. Third stack was 14 with gap, and 10 without. Wrapping up the box, the fourth stack 16 with gap, 7 without, and one pack with no gum that seemed to be short 1 A/B card. I had duplicates of quite a few of the E sheet cards, but within the box there was only one variation of a given card.
Some of the A/B sheet cards that are likely tougher than your average 10 due to gum staining in the wax packs: Yount, Clemens, Bonds, Oil Can, Eddie Murray, Griffey Sr., Rickey Henderson
Needs list has been updated.
<< <i>Does this variation only in the baseball product? >>
I've only seen it mentioned for baseball and don't have much of the FB or HK product of that year, but will have to check.
ETA: All the League Leaders cards, at minimum, appear to be impacted.
For anyone curious on star on top/back potential: On top - any A/B sheet card is possible, on back - any C/D/E sheet card is possible, two ** sheet cards are always in the middle breaking up the A/B and C/D/E runs so it's not possible for any of these to be showing. Typical cello breakdown as follows, 12-14 A/B cards on top, 2 ** cards in the middle, 13-15 C/D/E cards on back with anywhere from 3-7 E* cards per pack. It's probably not too difficult to figure out at least partial sequencing with pictures of the uncut sheets, but I'm not inclined to do so.
OK, I've done a lot more ripping since the last update and thought I would compile results. While I've confirmed all E sheet cards are available in the E* & E** variety, it appears only half are available in the 'E ' (with gap) variety. My last wax box was another mix of E & E * with every E* aligning with what I needed for E * and all E * being additional copies of ones I already have. After a count of how many E * I was missing, it's exactly 66 (half of a 132 card sheet). So for whatever reason, it appears only half the sheet is possible.
E**: Complete
E*: Complete
E *: Likely Complete
E sheet cards without a E * variety: 13,14,22,24,27,31,33,34,39,42,54,74,83,113,117,149,150,158,164,188,215,233,236,250,
264,266,267,271,275,287,290,308,309,315,319,326,337,340,344,346,366,394,429,450,460,
462,467,475,499,500,509,512,539,550,551,557,558,604,608,612,626,627,629,669,
680,681
I would be happy to be proven wrong and find out these are available, but I'm done ripping 91 Bowman until that happens
My best guesses as to distribution:
E**: Factory sets, I haven't found any in wax or cello
E*: Wax or cello, some boxes have only this variety, others a mix
E *: Wax or cello, when found all possible cards will be of this variety, the other 66 E sheet cards will all be of the E* variety
If anyone is looking for star/HOFer/RC showing on top or back of cellos or wax, let me know. I've amassed quite a few (Mussina, Bonds, Eddie Murray, Will Clark, etc.).
Is Ripken Jr. available as a star on top cello? If so,
how many do you have and the price?
Nice job on the research. I love reading stuff like this. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us.
Arthur
Just checked my stack from recent rips and a few other randoms. I'm sure I've got some other star showing junk wax around, but no Ripken Jr handy. If I run across any I'll let you know.
91B Wax:
Top - Strawberry (#609), Eddie Murray (#614), Bonds (#513), Nolan Ryan (#280), Gwynn (#647), Will Clark (#616), Mussina RC
91B Cello:
Back - Ivan Rodriguez RC
92B Wax:
Top - Rickey Henderson (#166)
92T Winners:
Ryne Sandberg, Gwynn, Sosa x2, Bo Jackson
I had heard of 'glow back' 91T, but recently heard that 91B was affected also. It appears Topps switched inks at some point during their 91 print runs and one had optical brighteners included while the other did not. Blacklight ...
I guess I've got another project for the weekend now, putting together glow/non-glow sets and seeing if there's any correlation with the E sheet code variations (so far it appears E* are all non-glows).
OK, things got a lot more messy once I discovered the blacklighting of these. Updating my notes here for anyone interested since Arthur mentioned it in another thread.
A-D sheets: all cards are available in both glow and no-glow backs
** sheet: All cards only available in glow back
E*: All 132 available in no-glow back, 66 available in glow back (13,14,22,24,27,31,33,34,39,42,54,74,83,113,117,149,150,158,164,188,215,233,236,250,264,266,267,271,275,287,290,308,309,315,319,326,337,340,344,346,366,394,429,450,460,462,467,475,499,500,509,512,539,550,551,557,558,604,608,612,626,627,629,669,680,681)
E *: Only available in glow back, the other 66 on the E sheet
E**: No glow, all 132 available
E**: Glow (guessing all 132 are available, but these are the toughest to find. I still need 72, but it doesn't align with either grouping of 66 from the E*/E *) If anyone has a decent stash of these, I'm interested.
Factory sets with graphics contain: A-D sheet No Glow, E** No Glow, ** Sheet Glow
So for those playing at home, the total # of cards for a complete set of all the variations of these is 1628 (1056 A-D + 44 ** + 528 E) and I'm still 77 shy.
I love all the work you've done on this set. I wish wax hasn't become so expensive (relatively speaking) because I would love to rip a few cases. That ship has long since sailed.
Arthur
Yeah, I did pretty well finding some large lots of wax/cello several years ago. Think I got two cello and 5 wax boxes for like $75 delivered in one, ah the good ole days.
I got 3 wax boxes from BBCE for $9 each and had them wrap them. This was just within the last year. That was the end of that. They got a few more in shortly after that and they were $27 unwrapped. Who knows what they are now in all this madness. I can't bring myself to rip the wrapped boxes.
Arthur
Prices seem to be settling back down on these some to ~$35 dlvd, but they were going for $50 dlvd unwrapped and $80 for BBCE not too long ago. It's not worth ripping at those prices.