Holmes vs. Husak vs. Naftzger

DaveW

Early Copper Guys - Which of these three amazing collectors do you think had the best large cent collection? Which pedigree would you prefer to have on your holder?

Sonorandesertrat

For quality, Naftzger.
For everything else that counts, Holmes.
I have Ex-Naftzger and Ex-Holmes coins in my collection.
I have the hb Husak catalog, but am not as interested in picking up one of his former coins.

Sunnywood

Naftzger owned an awful lot of large cents, including many that were held only for a short time, as he actively traded and bartered them. So a "Naftzger pedigree" sometimes means a coin that he owned only for a month. If you weed those out, and consider the coins that he had for years, then you're onto something ... the ones he held onto are the good ones !!

Holmes and Husak were also great collectors, and all of those pedigrees should be respected !!

Best,
Sunnywood

LanceNewmanOCC

.
i know there are plenty amongst the trio that are double-pedigreed but i wonder how many are tripled by all 3?

so when you ask which had the best collection, it may come down to which ones weren't owned by more than 1 of them.
.

BigMoose

Ted Naftzger owned the "best of the best" Large Cents in all series, Early, Middle and Late Dates. He started chasing these in the 1930s and he and his agents scoured the country for the very best quality large Cents. With very few exceptions, such as a few of Gary Fitzgerald's 1824s, the vast majority of Ted's top line coins were condition census #1 coins. He owned the Mickley Chain Cents, S-1, PCGS Specimen 65, the A*water Wreath Cent, PCGS Specimen 68 Red, "The Coin",( S-4 Chain Cent, PCGS Specimen 67!), among many others. He was nicknamed "God" by C. Doug Smith, a famous Large Cent collector in his own right, so that should tell you something.

Walter Husak put together a fantastic collection of Early Date Large Cents, 1793 to 1814, over a period of many years, many with the Naftzger provenance.

Dan Holmes assembled an amazing collection of Early, Middle and Late Date Large Cents over many, many years. In addition, he upgraded substantially when the Wadlington Collection of Early Date Large Cents became available. I happened to be having breakfast right next to Dan and Robinson Brown at the Drawbridge Hotel during an EAC Convention when Dan purchased the entire Robbie Brown Collection of Proof Large Cents(1840 to 1857) with a handshake.

BigMoose

Given the choice, I would take a Naftzger pedigree coin. Many of Walter Husak's and Dan Holmes's best coins were ex. Naftzger.

Catbert

And, just for fun.......

savoyspecial

I have all the printed Goldberg catalogs and I am most 'wowed' by Holmes, Early Dates when I look at them

Zoins

Old Thread Alert

I've run across Holmes and Naftzger a lot but Husak not so much.

Given that Doug Bird had 16 #1 PCGS ranked Registry Sets, how would he rank among the greats?

More info on his collection here:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12496860

cnncoins

Naftzger hands down. Not only did he have incredible "Wonder Coins", including the Specimen 67 BN Chain Cent and the Specimen 68RD Wreath Cent, he had multiple Gem Wreath Cents (64-69BN), as well as the only UNC 1799. He had had an incredible Proof Large Cent collection which most did not get to see or hear about. SO many other great coins which are too numerous to list here.

Zoins

@Catbert said:
And, just for fun.......

I remember that photo. Great image!

Zoins

@BigMoose said:
Ted Naftzger owned the "best of the best" Large Cents in all series, Early, Middle and Late Dates. He started chasing these in the 1930s and he and his agents scoured the country for the very best quality large Cents. With very few exceptions, such as a few of Gary Fitzgerald's 1824s, the vast majority of Ted's top line coins were condition census #1 coins. He owned the Mickley Chain Cents, S-1, PCGS Specimen 65, the A*water Wreath Cent, PCGS Specimen 68 Red, "The Coin",( S-4 Chain Cent, PCGS Specimen 67!), among many others. He was nicknamed "God" by C. Doug Smith, a famous Large Cent collector in his own right, so that should tell you something.

Walter Husak put together a fantastic collection of Early Date Large Cents, 1793 to 1814, over a period of many years, many with the Naftzger provenance.

Dan Holmes assembled an amazing collection of Early, Middle and Late Date Large Cents over many, many years. In addition, he upgraded substantially when the Wadlington Collection of Early Date Large Cents became available. I happened to be having breakfast right next to Dan and Robinson Brown at the Drawbridge Hotel during an EAC Convention when Dan purchased the entire Robbie Brown Collection of Proof Large Cents(1840 to 1857) with a handshake.

Great insights and history on these collections. Thanks for posting!

Tibor

Were some of Naftzger part of the ANS collection? Is there a list
of the ones that were. I believe Sheldon "traded" many of his lesser
quality cents for better quality coins from the ANS and wound up
with Naftzger. Does anybody know the details of how Naftzger
acquired the cents and how they were returned?

Zoins

@Tibor said:
Were some of Naftzger part of the ANS collection? Is there a list of the ones that were. I believe Sheldon "traded" many of his lesser quality cents for better quality coins from the ANS and wound up with Naftzger. Does anybody know the details of how Naftzger acquired the cents and how they were returned?

Here's some info, also from @Sunnywood:

• The Truth about Dr. William H. Sheldon

@Sunnywood said:
I am starting a new thread with this post, as I think people should know more about Dr. Sheldon who gave us the Sheldon scale:

The Horrible Dr. William H. Sheldon - Fraud, Liar and Thief

If everyone in numismatics understood who William Sheldon was, the Sheldon scale would be boycotted. In numismatics, he is strongly believed to have stolen coins from the ANS's Clapp collection of large cents while studying the ANS coins for his famed book, "Penny Whimsey." (He switched them out with lower-grade specimens from his own set.) Later, when entrusted with the collection of a dying man (James Clarke), he found some coins in the Clarke collection that were better than those he had stolen from Clapp, so he pulled the switcheroo again, taking the Clarke coins for himself, and putting the stolen Clapp coins back into the dying Clarke's collection. When Clarke died, Roy Naftzger bought his collection, and thus unknowingly got some of the ANS coins. Ironically, years later Naftzger also bought Sheldon's collection, which thus contained coins stolen from the ANS ex Clapp, as well as coins stolen from Clarke. The ANS was left with Sheldon's inferior coins, and in the end, Naftzger likely ended up with most of the ANS coins, including the lesser coins that Sheldon had double-switched back into the Clarke collection !! (For his part, Naftzger apparently knew of Sheldon's foul play, yet he refused to give up the stolen property, and ended up being sued by the ANS. He lost.)

Here is another thread on this:

• ANS v. Naftzger court case-- does anyone know more about it?

Sonorandesertrat

That story is actually a bunch of stories, enough for a book. Harry Bass, who disliked Naftzger as a result of an earlier squabble over a rare gold coin, and Del Bland (both acting on behalf of the ANS) were involved too. The ANS large cent holdings were largely due to a donation by George Clapp, and there were records and photos of the individual coins. Noyes wrote an important book, United States Large Cents, 1793 -1814, that came out in 1991 or 1992. The book featured good images of the best large cents and their owners. This is when the sh&% hit the fan. People could see that some of the Naftzger coins were recorded by the ANA as part of the Clapp donation. There were attempts at cutting a deal, with Naftzger donating money to the ANS in exchange for keeping the hot coins, but nothing worked out. Hence, lawsuits ensued. What remains controversial is how much and when Naftzger knew about the switched coins (something like 4 dozen) before the ANS complaint surfaced.

Oldhoopster

@Sonorandesertrat said:
That story is actually a bunch of stories, enough for a book. Harry Bass, who disliked Naftzger as a result of an earlier squabble over a rare gold coin, and Del Bland (both acting on behalf of the ANS) were involved too. The ANS large cent holdings were largely due to a donation by George Clapp, and there were records and photos of the individual coins. Noyes wrote an important book, United States Large Cents, 1793 -1814, that came out in 1991 or 1992. The book featured good images of the best large cents and their owners. This is when the sh&% hit the fan. People could see that some of the Naftzger coins were recorded by the ANA as part of the Clapp donation. There were attempts at cutting a deal, with Naftzger donating money to the ANS in exchange for keeping the hot coins, but nothing worked out. Hence, lawsuits ensued. What remains controversial is how much and when Naftzger knew about the switched coins (something like 4 dozen) before the ANS complaint surfaced.

Wasn't there a connection to Sheldon as well? I seem to recall he was responsible for replacing the ANS coins with lesser examples and that's who they entered the market. Please provide a correction if I'm wrong.

Sonorandesertrat

Yes, that is what Zoins referred to. Sheldon switched out large cents from the ANS, Clarke, and even Naftzger. After Naftzger bought Sheldon's large cents, there is reason to believe that Naftzger eventually realized what happened. The main problem is that, after this, the ANS asserted that Naftzger did not have title to coins that were stolen from the ANS collection. Harry Bass, an influential collector and major donor to the ANS (its library is named for Bass), pushed the organization to go after Naftzger and get as many of the Clapp coins back as possible.