Won this at Heritage Auctions tonight: 1941-D Walking Liberty Half MS-67
mainer020648
Posts: 132
New addition to my 20th Century Type Set
0
Comments
I do not like the "sun spots", that would of scared me away.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
<< <i>BTW,
I do not like the "sun spots", that would of scared me away. >>
I noticed them also but overall it's a nice coin. Especially since I picked it up for only $425.
<< <i>
<< <i>BTW,
I do not like the "sun spots", that would of scared me away. >>
I noticed them also but overall it's a nice coin. Especially since I picked it up for only $425. >>
That's a really GOOD price for a 41-D superb gem----they are normally around $650 or so. Although I don't like the marks on the sun; I think overall it's a pretty good coin for a super low price. Good job!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=919250
<< <i>You may not like what I have to say, but I think it would be educational to try to sell that coin...just for the experience. >>
I agree with TDN, while it has pristine fields the marks in the focal areas (sun, cheek) along with dipped surfaces and NGC plastic with an optimistic grade all but kills the liquidity of that coin.
It will always need to trade at a discount of MS67 money to be marketable and the volatile nature of that discount makes most dealers unwilling dance partners except at a (cant lose level). A (can't lose level) for a dealer almost always means the seller will be doing the losing.
When judging value on your purchases quality and liquidity should both be considered. That coin has excellent preservation but because of the specific combonation of attrubites it isn't as liquid as it could be.
As stated above, the distraction on the sun is an issue.
But yours has a pristine right field; a nearly full strike on the head, and a 2/3rds strike on the hand.
The reverse is very nice.
Untoned and lustrous.
I think you did very well at your price.
<< <i>
<< <i>You may not like what I have to say, but I think it would be educational to try to sell that coin...just for the experience. >>
I agree with TDN, while it has pristine fields the marks in the focal areas (sun, cheek) along with dipped surfaces and NGC plastic with an optimistic grade all but kills the liquidity of that coin.
It will always need to trade at a discount of MS67 money to be marketable and the volatile nature of that discount makes most dealers unwilling dance partners except at a (cant lose level). A (can't lose level) for a dealer almost always means the seller will be doing the losing.
When judging value on your purchases quality and liquidity should both be considered. That coin has excellent preservation but because of the specific combonation of attrubites it isn't as liquid as it could be. >>
TDN, why would I not like or take offense at what you said. I don't disagree with either you or crypto79. I considered the hit on the sun, hence the bid of only $425. Overall though, I still think it was a good purchase, all other strike qualities considered. As to liquidity, I didn't buy it with the intention of selling.
<< <i>I considered the hit on the sun, hence the bid of only $425. >>
"Only 425" is about double PCGS MS66 money for a coin that might not make that grade.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>
TDN, why would I not like or take offense at what you said. I don't disagree with either you or crypto79. I considered the hit on the sun, hence the bid of only $425. Overall though, I still think it was a good purchase, all other strike qualities considered. As to liquidity, I didn't buy it with the intention of selling. >>
Not a knock on you but I have always consider the adage of buying "no intention of selling" to be a cop out. While I hope collectors always enjoy purchases for a long time, it should be noted they will ALL be sold at some point. Part of the process we take in the hobby as we become more advance is learning when it is just as easy to buy quality as avg and where to pick your compromises when the right coin isn't around or too rare, expensive ect. You might have got a better coin and had an easier resale for less money say at the PCGS 66 CAC level. That is a nice coin but imagine it in a 65+ holder? All of a sudden everybody is patting you on the back buying a coin at the gem level that has the look of better but technical limitations holding it back.... The value we are talking about
If you are willing to go up in price the compromises are different but the concept holds true.
It's a relatively cheap lesson but this is a classic example of a dealer plastic shopping to max out a coin after a little freshening and dumping it at auction if it doesn't move at retail/wholesale. Even back of ask (@67) they are still ahead from where the coin started out. This is common in the coin market and often leaves collectors holding the bag and is one of the things people like Laura preach about.
<< <i>
<< <i>I considered the hit on the sun, hence the bid of only $425. >>
"Only 425" is about double PCGS MS66 money for a coin that might not make that grade. >>
Exactly. I have found in my many years of collecting that more value is obtained for a collector by searching and buying a premium quality example of the undergrade at a premium price over buying a bargain example of the overgrade at a discount price. The plastic has a negative value in the former and a positive value in the latter. Don't pay for plastic!
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
The trust also has a Walker Short set, including these 2. What do you think these 2 grade? I'll post the full slab pics later.
<< <i>All really good points. as for not intending to sell, in this case that is going to happen. I have already set up a generation skipping trust in the name of my great daughter, who is 2, willing it to her with instructions that she not get actual possession until the age of 16. The guardian of the trust is an independent person not related to any family member. I am 66 now so the odds of my seeing her take possession diminish as time goes by. >>
While I agree with most of what has been posted to this thread, the other side the coin (so to speak)
is that you bought a coin that pleased you enough to post on the forum. Not every purchase
(especially at this price level) has to conform to the highest standards of economic justification. I might
add that the assigned grade also adds some value when you go to sell, whether or not it's
technically correct in the eyes of most collectors. Many here tend to forget that there's a huge pool
of coin collectors who don't subscribe to the forum mantra: "Buy only original, conservatively graded
coins." A lot of folks don't have the patience for that.
<< <i>All really good points. as for not intending to sell, in this case that is going to happen. I have already set up a generation skipping trust in the name of my great daughter, who is 2, willing it to her with instructions that she not get actual possession until the age of 16. The guardian of the trust is an independent person not related to any family member. I am 66 now so the odds of my seeing her take possession diminish as time goes by.
The trust also has a Walker Short set, including these 2. What do you think these 2 grade? I'll post the full slab pics later.
The 41 D has GREAT luster (better than the other 41-D MS 67) with just a few ticks----I'd conservatively call it 66. The 44S looks 66, too, with a typically soft strike.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
<< <i>Although I like the coin, an MS67 grade should not have a detracting mark which this one has. It's a shame but I also think if the mark was not there, the price would have been much higher. Still has a very nice strike to it. >>
I agree with the first sentence. I suspect that a lot of the negatives has to do with the fact it is in an NGC holder and this is the PCGS Chat board. I also agreed about the marks on the sun. That being said, the picture below is a screenshot of an actual Walker on Ebay. I have blown up a relevant section. You will notice that marks on the sun on this coin also, as well as the marks on the skirt. I suppose because it is in a PCGS holder, they don't count. You will also notice it is graded MS67+ CAC. I fully expect that I will probably be banned from the PCGS chat boards, but that's life.
Classic post a coin that you just bought and love, then everyone points out whats wrong, then OP gets ticked.
You actually paid $500 plus shipping and the reason it sold for way cheaper than the 2 PCGS examples that sold yesterday is right on the coin itself. It is a 66 in a 67 holder, looking void of the luster that drives these babies up way more than a few marks take them down.
There are dealers out there for every type of coin at every type of level. This ranges from the guys who buy and sell culls/holed/bent all the way up to dealers who only sell "A" level coins. As long as you are selling the plastic (or cheapos) at an appropriate level, it is perfectly acceptable. Any NGC walker in MS67 would get at least $340 based on the sight unseen bid. Looks from auction records that they almost always sell at or above $500 irrespective of quality. That said, at most the OP is likely out 10-20% which is reasonable for any coin. Could he have bought a PQ MS66 for $250, sure. But the inherent value of what he purchased is pretty reasonable in relation to what he paid. There is a huge market for STUFF that most of us choose to ignore.
<< <i>
<< <i>Although I like the coin, an MS67 grade should not have a detracting mark which this one has. It's a shame but I also think if the mark was not there, the price would have been much higher. Still has a very nice strike to it. >>
I agree with the first sentence. I suspect that a lot of the negatives has to do with the fact it is in an NGC holder and this is the PCGS Chat board. I also agreed about the marks on the sun. That being said, the picture below is a screenshot of an actual Walker on Ebay. I have blown up a relevant section. You will notice that marks on the sun on this coin also, as well as the marks on the skirt. I suppose because it is in a PCGS holder, they don't count. You will also notice it is graded MS67+ CAC. I fully expect that I will probably be banned from the PCGS chat boards, but that's life.
I have more NGC slabs than anything else. I'm not good with walkers so my comment was just based on grading standards. I actually like the looks of the coin. Yes the mark on the sun is a little distracting but hey, if you like it thats all that matters.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
<< <i>Classic post a coin that you just bought and love, then everyone points out whats wrong, then OP gets ticked.
You actually paid $500 plus shipping and the reason it sold for way cheaper than the 2 PCGS examples that sold yesterday is right on the coin itself. It is a 66 in a 67 holder, looking void of the luster that drives these babies up way more than a few marks take them down.
1. I was not ticked at what everyone pointed out. I actually agreed with most of the comments.
2. As we know, pictures most times do not reflect attributes like luster or color accurately. I'll have to wait until I get the coin in-hand.
3. Are you saying that if the coin in-hand has luster that the grade "may" be correct?
<< <i>I am not sure why we are getting all over him for the purchase. From the pics, the coin is probably not an A or a B coin. That said, most C level coins will not be bought back from PCGS and NGC because they are close enough that the guarantee won't be granted. These coins exist in both holders and are a reality of the coin business. While most people on the boards here will not accept anything less than an A coin, there are a lot of B coins and C coins out there that need homes too. The value of these lesser quality coins are likely in the hundreds of millions of dollars or more when it comes to value of even the C coins. Nobody out there has the money to hoard these coins to take them off the market. So then one might ask what do you do with them.
There are dealers out there for every type of coin at every type of level. This ranges from the guys who buy and sell culls/holed/bent all the way up to dealers who only sell "A" level coins. As long as you are selling the plastic (or cheapos) at an appropriate level, it is perfectly acceptable. Any NGC walker in MS67 would get at least $340 based on the sight unseen bid. Looks from auction records that they almost always sell at or above $500 irrespective of quality. That said, at most the OP is likely out 10-20% which is reasonable for any coin. Could he have bought a PQ MS66 for $250, sure. But the inherent value of what he purchased is pretty reasonable in relation to what he paid. There is a huge market for STUFF that most of us choose to ignore. >>
Well said!
As I said I would do, here are the pics of the slabs of the 2 coins I posted. Neither of these were purchased already stickered. I had them submitted to CAC based on my own evaluation of the condition.
It appears that I "may" in fact know a quality Walker when I see one. Looks like NGC got one right! The entire set is graded MS65, with 5 already CAC'ed. None were purchased with the stickers already on them.
<< <i>
3. Are you saying that if the coin in-hand has luster that the grade "may" be correct?
>>
Images do many times show luster and the 2 examples right above show lots of it. Your 67 is dead and lifeless. I personally would not buy it in a 66 holder, and I own a bunch of walkers in 66 and up. What happens so many times with these coins that should not be 67 is that they were sent in for regrade and the grading company is very reluctant to take the grade down, even though they would never grade the same coin a 67 raw. If you want to test that theory, crack that sucker out and send it in. I give it zero chance at a 67. I would expect PCGS 65 after looking at the large image.
Now, if you like it, who cares.
<< <i>
I noticed them also but overall it's a nice coin. Especially since I picked it up for only $425. >>
I do not mean to take anything away from this coin as it is very nice. I do not think our host would cross it, in particular because of the sun spots, but a nice coin none-the-less.
I would like to say that Rationalizing a purchase via "price paid" is an investment conversation, not a collecting one.
Thanks for your post. I have collected coins off and on for 30+ years, but am reminded every time I read a post like you started, how little I really know. I don't buy walkers for the most part and the comments that several of the posters made about your recent purchase gave me a whole new thought process of what I need to look for if I ever plan to buy a nice walker or two. This is the message board at its best. People voicing their opinions and being specific about the good and bad things about a particular coin. I realize it takes a bit of thick skin to listen to it and I thank you for being willing to put up with it. It sometimes comes across as ugly and negative, but I appreciate your attitude and the other posters taking the time to educate us all a little bit more. Go Hogs.............
<< <i>Mainer,
Thanks for your post. I have collected coins off and on for 30+ years, but am reminded every time I read a post like you started, how little I really know. I don't buy walkers for the most part and the comments that several of the posters made about your recent purchase gave me a whole new thought process of what I need to look for if I ever plan to buy a nice walker or two. This is the message board at its best. People voicing their opinions and being specific about the good and bad things about a particular coin. I realize it takes a bit of thick skin to listen to it and I thank you for being willing to put up with it. It sometimes comes across as ugly and negative, but I appreciate your attitude and the other posters taking the time to educate us all a little bit more. Go Hogs............. >>
Agree and well said.
The Walker series is one where there is a distinct PCGS Market and an NGC Market. NGC makes more "jump" coins then PCGS. In this case the big price jump is between 66 and 67. In my experience in collecting this series (Long/short Walkers) NGC tends to be more lenient in the gem mint + category. Same in Proofs. I could never see the OP coin in PCGS 67 plastic. as far as 41-D's go PCGS 66's routinely trade for 200ish. An all there 67 goes for $900+. If I were viewing this coin I would instinctively think that the OP coin is a wolf in sheep clothing and proceed accordingly. And before the anti-kool aid folks get up in arms there are plenty of great Walkers in NGC plastic. It's just that in this series there are plenty of bombs mixed in as well. The major minefields seems to be in weekly auctions.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>Mainer,
Thanks for your post. I have collected coins off and on for 30+ years, but am reminded every time I read a post like you started, how little I really know. I don't buy walkers for the most part and the comments that several of the posters made about your recent purchase gave me a whole new thought process of what I need to look for if I ever plan to buy a nice walker or two. This is the message board at its best. People voicing their opinions and being specific about the good and bad things about a particular coin. I realize it takes a bit of thick skin to listen to it and I thank you for being willing to put up with it. It sometimes comes across as ugly and negative, but I appreciate your attitude and the other posters taking the time to educate us all a little bit more. Go Hogs............. >>
Agree and well said.
The Walker series is one where there is a distinct PCGS Market and an NGC Market. NGC makes more "jump" coins then PCGS. In this case the big price jump is between 66 and 67. In my experience in collecting this series (Long/short Walkers) NGC tends to be more lenient in the gem mint + category. Same in Proofs. I could never see the OP coin in PCGS 67 plastic. as far as 41-D's go PCGS 66's routinely trade for 200ish. An all there 67 goes for $900+. If I were viewing this coin I would instinctively think that the OP coin is a wolf in sheep clothing and proceed accordingly. And before the anti-kool aid folks get up in arms there are plenty of great Walkers in NGC plastic. It's just that in this series there are plenty of bombs mixed in as well. The major minefields seems to be in weekly auctions.
MJ >>
You said it well and I agree that there are inconsistencies. All I can say is----you must know your series and how to grade well, then you can JUMP on the PQ NGC examples that happen to be out there that the Kool-Aid community is afraid of and save yourself some money, while you are at it.
Personally, I like MOST (although there are a FEW exceptions) of my early dates graded by PCGS and my mid to late dates MOSTLY graded by NGC----this has been the most rewarding and cost-effective for me.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/