<< <i>my understanding from reliable sources, is they (4SC) have a minimum submission to PSA each month, somewhere is the 20K card range, in return they get a flat price of $2.75 per card. They pay that amount no matter what - if they submit the cards or not. >>
Monthly payments of $55,000 in grading fees even with that low rate, and unless they have a custom return shipping policy worked out in the negotiations (which they probably do), that would otherwise be noticeably over $10,000 in return shipping fees each month, plus the cost of shipping and insuring items sent to PSA for grading too. I wonder how many employees they need to handle that volume? Sure seems like it would take a lot of them. >>
They probably just have an employee drive a truck to California once a month or contract a truck shipment. This way your business insurance or the carrier insurance covers damage. >>
<< <i>Sorry for the trip down memory lane - my understanding from reliable sources, is they (4SC) have a minimum submission to PSA each month, somewhere is the 20K card range, in return they get a flat price of $2.75 per card. They pay that amount no matter what - if they submit the cards or not.
this is completely and totally untrue. Official documents filed with the SEC (you can go to jail for putting wrong stuff in there) state the lowest rate is $4/card >>
For arguments sake could a deal be given to a mass submitter for a $4 rate per card with the agreement that for every X amount of cards submitted a voucher for X amount of dollars towards future submissions is issued to the mass submitter? >>
Why would they put $4 in the officially filed SEC doc if that was the case? Seriously, you guys need to get a clue. This repeated discussion is getting old. >>
From Collectors Universe Inc.'s June 30, 2013 10-K SEC Filing: "In the case of trading cards, the authentication and grading fees ranged from approximately $4 to $50 and averaged $6.16, per trading card. As a general rule, collectibles dealers and, to a lesser extent, individual collectors, request faster turnaround times and, therefore, generally pay higher fees for more valuable, older or “vintage” collectibles than they do for modern collectibles."
Not trying to split hairs here, but the word "approximately" was used. We know there are grading services over the $50 threshold so why wouldn't someone expect a number lower than $4. To state things like "you guys need to get a clue" is very counterproductive. If we all thought alike, things would be pretty boring. >>
I agree more talk will often get closer to the truth
<< <i>Let's look at some numbers. If 4SC is submitting 20K cards/month (15% of total as reported by the SEC docs) at $2.75 (your numbers) . The average card ticket price is $8 as also reported by the SEC docs. Most of you guys seem to submit the specials at $6 and $7. Then who is submitting all the $15 and $20 cards to get to an average of $8? >>
With PSA's business booming for like 4 years now....why do they need to do bulk deals at really low rates? It puts everyone else at a disadvantage. I mean, how does this benefit PSA? If they have a back log of cards month after month and have had this for years now.....why??? >>
A healthy business has multiple distribution channels. Their retail portion, guys like me that sub 50 cards, couldn't carry the volume they need. Furthermore, there are higher costs associated with retail clients like managing payments, shipping small orders, handling questions, etc. I'd bet they are more profitable at 2.75 a card with 4sharp than at 7 bucks a card with me.
Cpamike's post makes a lot more sense. I think dbcoin needs to get a clue instead of being so quick to disparage others without a more close reading of the specifics and the stipulations reported therein.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
With PSA's business booming for like 4 years now....why do they need to do bulk deals at really low rates? It puts everyone else at a disadvantage. I mean, how does this benefit PSA? If they have a back log of cards month after month and have had this for years now.....why??? >>
A healthy business has multiple distribution channels. Their retail portion, guys like me that sub 50 cards, couldn't carry the volume they need. Furthermore, there are higher costs associated with retail clients like managing payments, shipping small orders, handling questions, etc. I'd bet they are more profitable at 2.75 a card with 4sharp than at 7 bucks a card with me. >>
That is exactly right. In the food biz a $1 MM/year customer with one location got a much better deal than a $2 MM customer with 100 locations.
Is that totally true? I thought I read some time ago, and I can't remember which thread it was, that a board member purchased some NESC "lots" or "sets", and they ended up landing some 10's? Maybe 4SC "graders" missed something? A diamond in the rough so to speak. I can't remember which thread it was and I wish I could dig it up.
Jimmy
Edited for spelling
Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.
That's been long standing info for sure, but I've never remembered to ask on either a 4SC auction or a NESC auction whether or not they offer combined shipping for items purchased from both company names. Has anyone here done that yet? Not even sure if they store all the inventory in a common place or 2 separate spots?
Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before.
<< <i>Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before. >>
That's basically what I was trying to say before. There are a few diamonds in the rough here and there. Is the majority of NESC's inventory ungradeable? Yes...but I can remember hearing a couple success stories though it's been awhile. Thanks miwlvrn for reiterating the point.
Jimmy
Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.
<< <i>Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before. >>
That's basically what I was trying to say before. There are a few diamonds in the rough here and there. Is the majority of NESC's inventory ungradeable? Yes...but I can remember hearing a couple success stories though it's been awhile. Thanks miwlvrn for reiterating the point.
Jimmy >>
That's all I was saying, at the very least the 4SC pre-graders rejected it as not 10 worthy/gradable. Things slip through even at the top 3 TPGs (3 full grade bumps anyone?) so 10s are not impossible, just very difficult.
<< <i>Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before. >>
That's basically what I was trying to say before. There are a few diamonds in the rough here and there. Is the majority of NESC's inventory ungradeable? Yes...but I can remember hearing a couple success stories though it's been awhile. Thanks miwlvrn for reiterating the point.
Jimmy >>
That's all I was saying, at the very least the 4SC pre-graders rejected it as not 10 worthy/gradable. Things slip through even at the top 3 TPGs (3 full grade bumps anyone?) so 10s are not impossible, just very difficult. >>
I have been buying a few 2008 Topps Baseball PSA 10s off eBay lately and have seen a few that 4SC have for sale that are off center slightly and could possibly be 9s, but did get a 10. I am surprised that they bothered to send them in, in the first place since they did mot appear to be guaranteed 10s.
<< <i>Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before. >>
That's basically what I was trying to say before. There are a few diamonds in the rough here and there. Is the majority of NESC's inventory ungradeable? Yes...but I can remember hearing a couple success stories though it's been awhile. Thanks miwlvrn for reiterating the point.
Jimmy >>
That's all I was saying, at the very least the 4SC pre-graders rejected it as not 10 worthy/gradable. Things slip through even at the top 3 TPGs (3 full grade bumps anyone?) so 10s are not impossible, just very difficult. >>
I have been buying a few 2008 Topps Baseball PSA 10s off eBay lately and have seen a few that 4SC have for sale that are off center slightly and could possibly be 9s, but did get a 10. I am surprised that they bothered to send them in, in the first place since they did mot appear to be guaranteed 10s. >>
If they have an arrangement where only those cards that meet their minimum grade get holdered and charged a fee, then it behooves them to send those borderline cards in. The PSA 10 success stories through NESC are likely cards that were submitted by 4SC but didn't make the grade on the first try. We all have our bump stories.
<< <i>Renata Galasso! That almost caused me to have a flashback. I bought a lot of stuff from her catalogs before I was able to drive. I think I saw her once at the old Plymouth, MI shows during the early 80's. I still am amazed that a woman was one of the largest dealers in our hobby at one time.
Does anybody collect the sets she used to print? I believe they were licensed. >>
I loved buying from Renata Galasso back in the 80s. I subscribed to her "Baseball Hobby Card Report" magazine/catalog and looked forward to getting it every quarter. I never had any money - I was 12 and had no job or income - but I loved looking at all their stuff. I did buy a few things - the 1961 Yankees color set, an old-timers set, a T-3 reprint set and a 1984 Topps Update set that I pre-ordered. Good choice there, Tabe, buy the "big name" Topps set instead of the Fleer for the same price. Argh.
<< <i>That's been long standing info for sure, but I've never remembered to ask on either a 4SC auction or a NESC auction whether or not they offer combined shipping for items purchased from both company names. Has anyone here done that yet? Not even sure if they store all the inventory in a common place or 2 separate spots? >>
A couple of years ago, I asked NESC a similar question and was promptly blocked with no response.
Actually the question I asked was more like, "So this card didn't make it back as a 9 or 10 when 4SC subbed it, but it's still being listed as 'MINT'?"
My best educated guess would of course be 4 Sharp Corners is getting some sort of pricing deal. They have to be. I don't blame 4Sharp for getting it or PSA for giving it. It makes good business sense for both.
I am aware of one source for 4Sharp; I was offered to take a look at that same source (some supposedly not yet touched by 4Sharp) but have not followed up on it. I know the gentleman who told me this is a retired dealer who has an extensive inventory and, for whatever reason, has not bought into grading. It just goes to show there are a ton of cards out there held by sources known and unknown.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>my understanding from reliable sources, is they (4SC) have a minimum submission to PSA each month, somewhere is the 20K card range, in return they get a flat price of $2.75 per card. They pay that amount no matter what - if they submit the cards or not. >>
Monthly payments of $55,000 in grading fees even with that low rate, and unless they have a custom return shipping policy worked out in the negotiations (which they probably do), that would otherwise be noticeably over $10,000 in return shipping fees each month, plus the cost of shipping and insuring items sent to PSA for grading too. I wonder how many employees they need to handle that volume? Sure seems like it would take a lot of them. >>
They probably just have an employee drive a truck to California once a month or contract a truck shipment. This way your business insurance or the carrier insurance covers damage. >>
Good point and idea if true...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry for the trip down memory lane - my understanding from reliable sources, is they (4SC) have a minimum submission to PSA each month, somewhere is the 20K card range, in return they get a flat price of $2.75 per card. They pay that amount no matter what - if they submit the cards or not.
this is completely and totally untrue. Official documents filed with the SEC (you can go to jail for putting wrong stuff in there) state the lowest rate is $4/card >>
For arguments sake could a deal be given to a mass submitter for a $4 rate per card with the agreement that for every X amount of cards submitted a voucher for X amount of dollars towards future submissions is issued to the mass submitter? >>
Why would they put $4 in the officially filed SEC doc if that was the case? Seriously, you guys need to get a clue. This repeated discussion is getting old. >>
From Collectors Universe Inc.'s June 30, 2013 10-K SEC Filing:
"In the case of trading cards, the authentication and grading fees ranged from approximately $4 to $50 and averaged $6.16, per trading card. As a general rule, collectibles dealers and, to a lesser extent, individual collectors, request faster turnaround times and, therefore, generally pay higher fees for more valuable, older or “vintage” collectibles than they do for modern collectibles."
Not trying to split hairs here, but the word "approximately" was used. We know there are grading services over the $50 threshold so why wouldn't someone expect a number lower than $4. To state things like "you guys need to get a clue" is very counterproductive. If we all thought alike, things would be pretty boring. >>
I agree more talk will often get closer to the truth
<< <i>Let's look at some numbers. If 4SC is submitting 20K cards/month (15% of total as reported by the SEC docs) at $2.75 (your numbers) . The average card ticket price is $8 as also reported by the SEC docs. Most of you guys seem to submit the specials at $6 and $7. Then who is submitting all the $15 and $20 cards to get to an average of $8? >>
This Guy
<< <i>Question????
With PSA's business booming for like 4 years now....why do they need to do bulk deals at really low rates? It puts everyone else at a disadvantage. I mean, how does this benefit PSA? If they have a back log of cards month after month and have had this for years now.....why??? >>
A healthy business has multiple distribution channels. Their retail portion, guys like me that sub 50 cards, couldn't carry the volume they need. Furthermore, there are higher costs associated with retail clients like managing payments, shipping small orders, handling questions, etc. I'd bet they are more profitable at 2.75 a card with 4sharp than at 7 bucks a card with me.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>Question????
With PSA's business booming for like 4 years now....why do they need to do bulk deals at really low rates? It puts everyone else at a disadvantage. I mean, how does this benefit PSA? If they have a back log of cards month after month and have had this for years now.....why??? >>
A healthy business has multiple distribution channels. Their retail portion, guys like me that sub 50 cards, couldn't carry the volume they need. Furthermore, there are higher costs associated with retail clients like managing payments, shipping small orders, handling questions, etc. I'd bet they are more profitable at 2.75 a card with 4sharp than at 7 bucks a card with me. >>
That is exactly right. In the food biz a $1 MM/year customer with one location got a much better deal than a $2 MM customer with 100 locations.
I think it's like Newenglandsportscards also?
<< <i>Is it also true that they operate under another ebay name also for selling raw cards?
I think it's like Newenglandsportscards also? >>
Yep, NESC is 4SC rejects.
<< <i>Yep, NESC is 4SC rejects. >>
Is that totally true? I thought I read some time ago, and I can't remember which thread it was, that a board member purchased some NESC "lots" or "sets", and they ended up landing some 10's? Maybe 4SC "graders" missed something? A diamond in the rough so to speak. I can't remember which thread it was and I wish I could dig it up.
Jimmy
Edited for spelling
<< <i>
<< <i>Yep, NESC is 4SC rejects. >>
Is that totally true?
>>
Yes it's true.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yep, NESC is 4SC rejects. >>
Is that totally true?
>>
Yes it's true. >>
That's been long standing info for sure, but I've never remembered to ask on either a 4SC auction or a NESC auction whether or not they offer combined shipping for items purchased from both company names. Has anyone here done that yet? Not even sure if they store all the inventory in a common place or 2 separate spots?
Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before.
<< <i>Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before. >>
That's basically what I was trying to say before. There are a few diamonds in the rough here and there. Is the majority of NESC's inventory ungradeable? Yes...but I can remember hearing a couple success stories though it's been awhile. Thanks miwlvrn for reiterating the point.
Jimmy
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before. >>
That's basically what I was trying to say before. There are a few diamonds in the rough here and there. Is the majority of NESC's inventory ungradeable? Yes...but I can remember hearing a couple success stories though it's been awhile. Thanks miwlvrn for reiterating the point.
Jimmy >>
That's all I was saying, at the very least the 4SC pre-graders rejected it as not 10 worthy/gradable. Things slip through even at the top 3 TPGs (3 full grade bumps anyone?) so 10s are not impossible, just very difficult.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before. >>
That's basically what I was trying to say before. There are a few diamonds in the rough here and there. Is the majority of NESC's inventory ungradeable? Yes...but I can remember hearing a couple success stories though it's been awhile. Thanks miwlvrn for reiterating the point.
Jimmy >>
That's all I was saying, at the very least the 4SC pre-graders rejected it as not 10 worthy/gradable. Things slip through even at the top 3 TPGs (3 full grade bumps anyone?) so 10s are not impossible, just very difficult. >>
I have been buying a few 2008 Topps Baseball PSA 10s off eBay lately and have seen a few that 4SC have for sale that are off center slightly and could possibly be 9s, but did get a 10. I am surprised that they bothered to send them in, in the first place since they did mot appear to be guaranteed 10s.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, there are definitely a few great cards that slip through the filter into NESC. It is harder to find the best ones since most will be 8's or lower, but I've had some success with raw from NESC before. >>
That's basically what I was trying to say before. There are a few diamonds in the rough here and there. Is the majority of NESC's inventory ungradeable? Yes...but I can remember hearing a couple success stories though it's been awhile. Thanks miwlvrn for reiterating the point.
Jimmy >>
That's all I was saying, at the very least the 4SC pre-graders rejected it as not 10 worthy/gradable. Things slip through even at the top 3 TPGs (3 full grade bumps anyone?) so 10s are not impossible, just very difficult. >>
I have been buying a few 2008 Topps Baseball PSA 10s off eBay lately and have seen a few that 4SC have for sale that are off center slightly and could possibly be 9s, but did get a 10. I am surprised that they bothered to send them in, in the first place since they did mot appear to be guaranteed 10s. >>
If they have an arrangement where only those cards that meet their minimum grade get holdered and charged a fee, then it behooves them to send those borderline cards in. The PSA 10 success stories through NESC are likely cards that were submitted by 4SC but didn't make the grade on the first try. We all have our bump stories.
<< <i>Renata Galasso! That almost caused me to have a flashback. I bought a lot of stuff from her catalogs before I was able to drive. I think I saw her once at the old Plymouth, MI shows during the early 80's. I still am amazed that a woman was one of the largest dealers in our hobby at one time.
Does anybody collect the sets she used to print? I believe they were licensed. >>
I loved buying from Renata Galasso back in the 80s. I subscribed to her "Baseball Hobby Card Report" magazine/catalog and looked forward to getting it every quarter. I never had any money - I was 12 and had no job or income - but I loved looking at all their stuff. I did buy a few things - the 1961 Yankees color set, an old-timers set, a T-3 reprint set and a 1984 Topps Update set that I pre-ordered. Good choice there, Tabe, buy the "big name" Topps set instead of the Fleer for the same price. Argh.
<< <i>That's been long standing info for sure, but I've never remembered to ask on either a 4SC auction or a NESC auction whether or not they offer combined shipping for items purchased from both company names. Has anyone here done that yet? Not even sure if they store all the inventory in a common place or 2 separate spots? >>
A couple of years ago, I asked NESC a similar question and was promptly blocked with no response.
Actually the question I asked was more like, "So this card didn't make it back as a 9 or 10 when 4SC subbed it, but it's still being listed as 'MINT'?"
I am aware of one source for 4Sharp; I was offered to take a look at that same source (some supposedly not yet touched by 4Sharp) but have not followed up on it. I know the gentleman who told me this is a retired dealer who has an extensive inventory and, for whatever reason, has not bought into grading. It just goes to show there are a ton of cards out there held by sources known and unknown.
Matt