What is genuinely rare?

stevepk

I have been a serious collector for about ten years now and have attended a few dozen coin shows. When I first began, I thought twenty cent pieces in any grade, anything capped or draped bust, and trade dollars were rare. At the time, I rarely saw any of these in coin shops, and when I did, they were severely worn or damaged. Now that I am a more experienced collector, I now see they are not as rare as I originally thought. Today, I do not even like to use the term 'rare'. Instead, I prefer to describe tough coins as 'scarce'. The scarcest coin in my collection today is an 1872 three dollar gold piece, and I would be hesitant to describe it as 'rare'.

What coins obtainable for $3,000 or less can be described as 'rare' or 'very scarce'? Can three thousand dollars buy anything genuinely rare? Please limit your responses to United States federal issue coins. Be more specific than simply citing 'original eye-appealing coins'.

MrEureka

If you'll consider errors, die varieties and patterns, there are many opportunities to buy US coins far rarer than an 1872 $3 for less than $3000. Expanding your horizons to Colonials and California Fractional Gold, among other things, could also be very productive.

But if you're only looking for simple dates and mintmarks as listed in the Red Book, you're not going to find much that meets your parameters.

braddick

Originality

Zoins

Using something like the following for the Sheldon Rarity Scale, "rare" would be 75 or less known. As mentioned above, for $3000 or less, there may be opportunities in errors, varieties and patterns. The other thing you can look for is top pops, or conditional rarity.



<< <i>Sheldon Rarity Scale (R1-R8):
R1 is most common and R8 is least common

R8 = 1-3 known (estimated), "Unique or Nearly Unique"
R7 = 4-12 known, "Extremely Rare"
R6 = 13-30 known, "Very Rare"
R5 = 31-75 known, "Rare"
R4 = 76-200 known, "Very Scarce"
R3 = 201-500 known, "Scarce"
R2 = 501-1250 known, "Uncommon"
R1 = over 1251 known, "Common" >>

Nap

I think your maturity as a collector over 10 years has changed your own perspective. Capped bust, draped bust, and trade dollars are surely no more common today then they were 10 years ago. Also, and especially over the last 10 years, the internet has made rare things fairly easy to find. Seems like every week there is a major coin auction, with early gold coins, bust coinage a-plenty, rare date seated coins, etc.

I used to think all gold coins were rare. The idea of a common gold coin was beyond my comprehension as a young collector.

As far as whether any rare coins are available for $3000, well, it depends. A unique regular issue American coin? No. A genuinely rare date in a classic series? No way. A rare variety of a coin in a series where people collect by variety (like bust halfs)? Probably not. Can you cherry pick a rare VAM for less than 3k? Absolutely, you see threads about that all the time. A conditionally rare modern coin? Sure. An absolutely rare coin (less than a few hundred known) in a series that is not so popular (like 1860's 3c silver proofs)? Yup. A $2.50 or $5.00 from the 1870s (with survivals <200) in circulated grade? If you look hard enough. An ancient or world coin with less than 100 known? Definitely.

Overdate

<< What is genuinely rare? >>

An unsearched roll for sale?

crazyhounddog

<< <i><< What is genuinely rare? >>

An unsearched roll for sale? >>



I'm beginning to think there's no such animal. At least on e-Bay

PreTurb

not telling

Sonorandesertrat

What MrEureka said. Even spending $5K won't buy anything really cool in U.S. federal coinage (aside from certain error coins).
For $3K, you can pick up a genuinely rare numislit item, a neat Mint medal, etc.

crypto79

True R7 Wildly bold Doubled die Obv and the key to the Trade dollar variety set. It is the 1817/4 of my series although the 17/4 turns up for sale more often.


There are lots of examples of die varieties that are legitimately rare throughout most 19th cen series that can be had for a relative pittance. I suggest one goes against collecting trends if they hope to identify such coins as one they are well known demand tends to follow suit which quickly puts some out of reach. Another absolute rarity is the 1839 bust half small letters rev. Wish I had a good pic of that one.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

US regular issues with PCGS estimated surviving populations of 50 or less in all grades.

Barberian

Some things that are rare for under $3K:

1) Certain varieties of seated halves.
2) Low ball circulated examples of classic commemorative issues that were entirely sold to collectors
3) some major errors
4) 18th century love tokens

CoinRaritiesOnline

As MrEureka said, many rare colonials can be had for under 3K.

291fifth

In general, regular circulation US coins are not rare. Most are not even scarce. US coins ARE popular and this creates the illusion of rarity.

Broadstruck

R8 = 1-3 known (estimated), "Unique or Nearly Unique" R7 = 4-12 known, "Extremely Rare" R6 = 13-30 known, "Very Rare" R5 = 31-75 known, "Rare"

You can cover all these in exonumia too as there's plenty of tokens and medals that can be purchased for $3k or less that fit all rarity categories above.

410a

Braddick is correct............The number of coins I was interested in at the Baltimore show and upon close examination...........well, Braddick is right.

Cougar1978

I probably have a sort of liberal opinion on the issue. Anything that does not normally circulate in Today's coinage or for that matter I can sell for more than face. A lot of them have terms for what they are trying to sell: top pop, low pop, registry, Bullrun Collection Pedigree, very scarce, etc. I really don't care that much about that if its unaffordable to the average collector ($300 is usually the limit). If I don't stand a good chance of finding it in change, its a rare coin. My circulated 1955-D quarter I found in change during the late 1960's is a rare coin. Try and find one in change today. My 2014 PCGS MS 69 ASE is also a rare coin. I don't remember seeing one in my Jack n Box change. Of course some rare coins are scarcer than others. How much would a holder pedigree - found in change circa 1968 worth? A lot of my Double Eagles in my Bank Box in PCGS63 - 65 are common or semi common but certainly rare coins today.

Don't be insulting to people coming up to you "I have some rare coins I want to sell you." Many of them have not heard of things like Carson City or top pop. It may be considered common but if its something you can sell over face......

Zoins

<< <i>R8 = 1-3 known (estimated), "Unique or Nearly Unique" R7 = 4-12 known, "Extremely Rare" R6 = 13-30 known, "Very Rare" R5 = 31-75 known, "Rare"

You can cover all these in exonumia too as there's plenty of tokens and medals that can be purchased for $3k or less that fit all rarity categories above. >>



I always get a kick out of searching for "R8." Somehow, it's comforting to know that there are R8s out there for sale.

AMRC

By definition? Anything R2 or greater.

Boosibri

I generally place anything R5 or higher as being "rare".

Several 1840's-1850's gold coins from Philadelphia and New Orleans fit the price range you note.

howards

Rare coin

There are a few URS-1 coin in shield nickel varieties. The above is my favorite, and the only known example. I paid about $500 for it about 15 years ago. I don't know if it would top your $3000 limit today.

It's easier to find coins that are truly rare if one is a variety collector.

coinkat

An 1859 $5 Lib in AU50 might be worthy of some consideration- if you can find a decent one

Boosibri

<< <i>An 1859 $5 Lib in AU50 might be worthy of some consideration- if you can find a decent one >>



Great example...

Also try the following R5 (or higher) Philly $5's which can be had in mid-high AU for between $1,500 and $3,000: 46 SD, 50, 58, 60

291fifth

If you have to resort to "grade rarity" then is it really rare?

If you have to resort to minor varieties then is it really rare?

If you have to resort to die marriages then is it really rare?

All of the above are essentially creations of collectors (or dealers) trying very hard to create rarity, and, they hope, value.

Rarity is also relative. There are US numismatic items with very low populations, many in tokens and medals, that are rare in an absolute sense but are still cheap because virtually no one collects them (and probably never will).

PerryHall

With published pop reports from the major grading services what is rare is not exactly a secret anymore. Certain varieties and other esoterica can be very rare but collectors for these coins can prove to be even rarer.

slipgate

Any 1700s coins (in general).

ctf_error_coins

I believe many major unique mint errors are extremely rare and way underpriced.

While this coin is only 14 years old, I would call it extremely rare and a one-of-a-kind.

CoinZip

<< <i>Originality >>

slipgate

<< <i>I believe many major unique mint errors are extremely rare and way underpriced.

While this coin is only 14 years old, I would call it extremely rare and a one-of-a-kind.

>>



The problem with coins like this is the equally rare market for them. I like coins that were made for circulation. I don't collect oddities and one-offs (I include things like the 1804 dollar in this category which I have no interest in as it was not made for circulation). I am sure many love them and I would love to see a collection of one-offs even though to me they are just oddities (I actually have a few). I think this is a different category of rarity (like the one you listed).

I would however collect mint errors of sufficient quantity to have a circulation potential such as the 1955-d doubled die Lincoln.

ctf_error_coins

<< <i>[I would however collect mint errors of sufficient quantity to have a circulation potential such as the 1955-d doubled die Lincoln. >>



I do hear what your saying.

I am a collector and dealer in major mint errors since 2000 and have never owned a 1955 DDO. I find this errors super cool, but waaay waaaay overpriced for how many are out there.

I think I will keep to my one-of-a-kind major mint errors.

Nysoto

<< <i>What coins obtainable for $3,000 or less can be described as 'rare' or 'very scarce'? Can three thousand dollars buy anything genuinely rare? >>


The Sheldon rarity scale identifies R-5 (31-80 extant) as "rare" which works well for varieties, as an R-5 may not be readily available.

Excluding varieties and fictitious "grade rarities," an R-5 rarity year date of a US coin would not be available for $3000.

However, you can get close with a few sleeper dates. The 1801-1803 dimes could be found under $3000, well circulated, with a lot of patience (the 1804 dimes will be more expensive). The years 1801-1803 are probably R-4 for the year with all varieties combined, they are about as rare as 1794 dollars at a small fraction of the price, and I have bought them for less than the common key date 1916-D dimes. If you can find an 1801-1803 dime, it would definately be "rare" in my book, and a very cool draped bust coin.

Nysoto

I bought this 1803 dime for $1250. Probably R-8 (1-3 known) that are gradable in F12, and less than 200 known for the date:

Broadstruck

<< <i>

<< <i>[I would however collect mint errors of sufficient quantity to have a circulation potential such as the 1955-d doubled die Lincoln. >>



I do hear what your saying.

I am a collector and dealer in major mint errors since 2000 and have never owned a 1955 DDO. I find this errors super cool, but waaay waaaay overpriced for how many are out there.

I think I will keep to my one-of-a-kind major mint errors. >>





With a minimum of 30K out there the 55DDO is not rare as you can buy them all day long.

Although cool is just one of the varieties that jumped in value due to being marketed really well early on.

rhedden

For rare Type coin, try the draped bust half dimes of 1796 to 1805. Just try finding any of these in undamaged condition except the 1800 and 1803 large 3, which are honestly not that common either. They are just about completely ignored due to their small size and rather high price. And let's not forget the 1802- an "impossible" date.

Many Draped Bust and large size Capped Bust quarters meet my definition of "rare" in grades better than XF. Just try to find a Draped Bust quarter- even a common date like 1806- in choice AU or Unc. They are seldom available, except in auctions. I do not own one. Capped Bust quarters up to 1828 are a little easier, but an attractive AU or Unc. without problems is still a find.