Re-read the thread for fun. My coin did finally arrive and I'm still happy with it.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
I don't think this is rightful, correct, or proper- but I really always wondered why the State of California didn't attempt to seize the Hoard under some pretext or another.
I'm no Philadelphia lawyer, but I would bet the State could have slowed down the dispersal somehow, someway.
@mercurydimeguy said:
Who bought the 1869-S coins, and are they nice?
I can answer this question
There were 4 - 1869-S double eagles in the hoard. Two were in AU53, one in AU58 and one in AU58+. I think the AU58+ is very nice without any detracting marks and the slightest bit rub on the chin...
@BillDugan1959 said:
I don't think this is rightful, correct, or proper- but I really always wondered why the State of California didn't attempt to seize the Hoard under some pretext or another.
I'm no Philadelphia lawyer, but I would bet the State could have slowed down the dispersal somehow, someway.
Why should they have?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
It's actually quite surprising they didn't. Of course I'm sure they got a hefty little sum from it in the form of taxes!
@BillDugan1959 said:
I don't think this is rightful, correct, or proper- but I really always wondered why the State of California didn't attempt to seize the Hoard under some pretext or another.
I'm no Philadelphia lawyer, but I would bet the State could have slowed down the dispersal somehow, someway.
@mr1874 said:
How can anyone believe the Saddle Ridge coins were not stolen from the SF mint?
Wouldn't the fact that many of them were AU graded coins from the 1860s (including mine) rule out that notion? The Mint doesn't/didn't maintain any circulated inventory, does it?
@AUandAG said:
I'm curious to know why they told anyone and made it all public.
bob
PS: I know of a miner (in the early 1900's) that stashed his gold/silver on his claim. When visiting a nearby town he was murdered. The stash is still there most likely. I've searched and will continue to do so as I can. I eliminated his cabin and his mine (I think so on the mine). So, it's buried above ground somewhere....
bob
How many people do you think know of the same guy/thing? What are the odds it was found and not reported, since, as you mention, that may be the way to do things?
@AUandAG said:
I'm curious to know why they told anyone and made it all public.
bob
PS: I know of a miner (in the early 1900's) that stashed his gold/silver on his claim. When visiting a nearby town he was murdered. The stash is still there most likely. I've searched and will continue to do so as I can. I eliminated his cabin and his mine (I think so on the mine). So, it's buried above ground somewhere....
bob
How many people do you think know of the same guy/thing? What are the odds it was found and not reported, since, as you mention, that may be the way to do things?
Odds that it was found are quite high. However, a lot will think the same and not bother to look. Fresh air, mountain breezes and a slim possibility of making some big $$$. It is the chase!
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
I bought this coin when the prices were lowered a little, after the initial release. There's no arguing the prices were aggressive, we can argue whether the story is worth the $$$, but I think it's widely accepted that the coins were graded convervatively in general. As a 62+, this coin has a lotta eye appeal. There are marks, sure, but that's some serious bang for your buck when the next grade up is 3x the price.
I'd be interested to see some video footage of every step of the recovery, archiving and cataloging, then the conservation process (not necessarily the chemicals used. There's a lot of clues that only the insiders are privy to because of the unnecessary secrecy.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I'd be interested to see some video footage of every step of the recovery, archiving and cataloging, then the conservation process (not necessarily the chemicals used.....
I'd also like to hear about the conservation process - including the chemicals used - as my double eagle has been developing dark spots that weren't there originally.
That would be my number 1 question - has any other owners seen these spots emerge?
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I'd be interested to see some video footage of every step of the recovery, archiving and cataloging, then the conservation process (not necessarily the chemicals used.....
I'd also like to hear about the conservation process - including the chemicals used - as my double eagle has been developing dark spots that weren't there originally.
That would be my number 1 question - has any other owners seen these spots emerge?
Maybe the spots were there, originally, removed before you obtained the coin and later reappeared.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@FullStrike said:
I've often wondered what would be the best way to bring a large quantity of hi grade Gold Counterfeits into the Market ? Ship Wreck ? Hoard?
Neither, as that would likely lead to increased scrutiny - the opposite of what would be desired.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It made me ponder how one would assimilate such a find, liquidate it over time without having it seized by some government agency / individual.
The other thing the excitement to find such a fantastic treasure on your property. One could get about 200 of them graded (conserved if necessary) put up a table fee for a show and presto your a dealer in double eagles. The challenge would be keeping the operation under the radar and hiding the rest of the hoard in a secure place. Perhaps constructing a barn with entrance to underground vault. Security would be a challenging task. SDB rentals in various banks might be a part of solution until which time rest liquidated. The recent influx of gold from Europe would be good cover help one w questions of origin. Once the operation up running a project plan would need to be developed for operation within execution of project objectives of deployment, profit taking, security, and deflection of any questions.
The availability of books online info would help one get up to speed on project objectives.
Personally, I think that the finders, and Kagin's, handled this splendidly!
Too bad that people with "hoard envy" feel the need to keep on whinging about it!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
In 1901 at the San Fransisco mint $30,000 in coins went mysteriously missing. The chief clerk, Walter Dimmick, was convicted of the crime under circumstantial evidence. The coins were never recovered. Whether the Saddle Ridge coins were those coins or not, we can only leave up to our imagination. News articles after the Saddle Ridge discovery played it up to make it sound like they were obviously the same coins. The only person(s?) who would actually know are long dead. It's a fantastic tale though.
And, among other things, the circumstantial evidence extends to where the Saddle Ridge coins were found, to what the discovered hoard of coins were comprised of and the manner of concealment of the coins.
@Cougar1978 said:
It made me ponder how one would assimilate such a find, liquidate it over time without having it seized by some government agency / individual.
You are assuming the finder(s) is a numismatic and an expert in pre-33 gold coinage? That's the only method to go thru your plan of selling under the radar.
Also keep in mind by having a SR pedigree, it increased its value by x %, which probably made up the differences that Uncle Sam took.
Why did the person who made the discovery "go public?" I would NEVER have done that. But. .....I'm a coin collector. Question to fellow collectors on this forum; Would you have told anyone the circumstances of your discovery?
Maybe I'm missing something. But.....as a kid, I was always searching the ranch and the sounding hills for the lost Conquistador buried treasure and maybe even a few helmets and swords. Never found it. But if I would have found it, it would have been my secret. I knew as an 8 year old that the county museum ADULTS would get their hands on my discovery!!!!!!! Why tell ANYBODY?
The Mint doesn't/didn't maintain any circulated inventory, does it?
I don't know the answer to this question. I do know that $20 gold coin had a great deal of purchasing power early in the 20th century. It's conceivable that the mint might store some circulated coins that customers bring in to exchange for silver coin and smaller denomination gold?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Yes I am sure a lot of hoard finds never heard of bc finders kept it under the radar plus knew how handle it and probably not some kind of material which would cause a lot of attention during liquidation.
Comments
Question, why on earth would anyone pay above market value for a coin just because it was found in a coffee can buried out in someone's garden?
I got all kinds of cans buried around my property, maybe time to go "find" one and start cashing in. Crazy world. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
My best find is a bent silver fork.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Re-read the thread for fun. My coin did finally arrive and I'm still happy with it.
Would love to see a pic
Number 1 question , now ?
How many coins (didn't need conservation, and ) straight graded ?
Maybe mistaken
I think Lakesammman purchased
the toned 1892 CC half eagle
or some other board member
I don't think this is rightful, correct, or proper- but I really always wondered why the State of California didn't attempt to seize the Hoard under some pretext or another.
I'm no Philadelphia lawyer, but I would bet the State could have slowed down the dispersal somehow, someway.
I can answer this question
There were 4 - 1869-S double eagles in the hoard. Two were in AU53, one in AU58 and one in AU58+. I think the AU58+ is very nice without any detracting marks and the slightest bit rub on the chin...
Why should they have?
It's actually quite surprising they didn't. Of course I'm sure they got a hefty little sum from it in the form of taxes!
I always wondering if the dog whizzed on the can?
Wouldn't the fact that many of them were AU graded coins from the 1860s (including mine) rule out that notion? The Mint doesn't/didn't maintain any circulated inventory, does it?
How many people do you think know of the same guy/thing? What are the odds it was found and not reported, since, as you mention, that may be the way to do things?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Odds that it was found are quite high. However, a lot will think the same and not bother to look. Fresh air, mountain breezes and a slim possibility of making some big $$$. It is the chase!
bob
I bought this coin when the prices were lowered a little, after the initial release. There's no arguing the prices were aggressive, we can argue whether the story is worth the $$$, but I think it's widely accepted that the coins were graded convervatively in general. As a 62+, this coin has a lotta eye appeal. There are marks, sure, but that's some serious bang for your buck when the next grade up is 3x the price.
I'd be interested to see some video footage of every step of the recovery, archiving and cataloging, then the conservation process (not necessarily the chemicals used. There's a lot of clues that only the insiders are privy to because of the unnecessary secrecy.
I'd also like to hear about the conservation process - including the chemicals used - as my double eagle has been developing dark spots that weren't there originally.
That would be my number 1 question - has any other owners seen these spots emerge?
Maybe the spots were there, originally, removed before you obtained the coin and later reappeared.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I've often wondered what would be the best way to bring a large quantity of hi grade Gold Counterfeits into the Market ? Ship Wreck ? Hoard?
Neither, as that would likely lead to increased scrutiny - the opposite of what would be desired.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It made me ponder how one would assimilate such a find, liquidate it over time without having it seized by some government agency / individual.
The other thing the excitement to find such a fantastic treasure on your property. One could get about 200 of them graded (conserved if necessary) put up a table fee for a show and presto your a dealer in double eagles. The challenge would be keeping the operation under the radar and hiding the rest of the hoard in a secure place. Perhaps constructing a barn with entrance to underground vault. Security would be a challenging task. SDB rentals in various banks might be a part of solution until which time rest liquidated. The recent influx of gold from Europe would be good cover help one w questions of origin. Once the operation up running a project plan would need to be developed for operation within execution of project objectives of deployment, profit taking, security, and deflection of any questions.
The availability of books online info would help one get up to speed on project objectives.
Personally, I think that the finders, and Kagin's, handled this splendidly!
Too bad that people with "hoard envy" feel the need to keep on whinging about it!
How would they have been stolen?
Inside job immediately comes to mind.
In 1901 at the San Fransisco mint $30,000 in coins went mysteriously missing. The chief clerk, Walter Dimmick, was convicted of the crime under circumstantial evidence. The coins were never recovered. Whether the Saddle Ridge coins were those coins or not, we can only leave up to our imagination. News articles after the Saddle Ridge discovery played it up to make it sound like they were obviously the same coins. The only person(s?) who would actually know are long dead. It's a fantastic tale though.
And, among other things, the circumstantial evidence extends to where the Saddle Ridge coins were found, to what the discovered hoard of coins were comprised of and the manner of concealment of the coins.
https://coinbooks.org/esylum_v17n09a12.html
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
This. If you found the hoard, anonymity would be the #1 concern.
From the link above: "Choosing to remain anonymous, however noble the stated intention, is a form of deceit."
A desire for privacy is a form of deceit? That's a load of crap.
You are assuming the finder(s) is a numismatic and an expert in pre-33 gold coinage? That's the only method to go thru your plan of selling under the radar.
Also keep in mind by having a SR pedigree, it increased its value by x %, which probably made up the differences that Uncle Sam took.
Why did the person who made the discovery "go public?" I would NEVER have done that. But. .....I'm a coin collector. Question to fellow collectors on this forum; Would you have told anyone the circumstances of your discovery?
Maybe I'm missing something. But.....as a kid, I was always searching the ranch and the sounding hills for the lost Conquistador buried treasure and maybe even a few helmets and swords. Never found it. But if I would have found it, it would have been my secret. I knew as an 8 year old that the county museum ADULTS would get their hands on my discovery!!!!!!! Why tell ANYBODY?
The Mint doesn't/didn't maintain any circulated inventory, does it?
I don't know the answer to this question. I do know that $20 gold coin had a great deal of purchasing power early in the 20th century. It's conceivable that the mint might store some circulated coins that customers bring in to exchange for silver coin and smaller denomination gold?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Had to Google it - my laptop is in the shop.
I agree finders / keepers, especially if on my property lol.
1:
Why not me?
BHNC #203
So what would the label read, Unc-Details "Dog Wizz"
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
I agree. There will never be a thing as 'Such and Such Hoard' if I were to discover a stash!
Yes I am sure a lot of hoard finds never heard of bc finders kept it under the radar plus knew how handle it and probably not some kind of material which would cause a lot of attention during liquidation.