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Ebay's ccw no longer of help

OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭
eBay in all of it's wisdom, has dismantled the "coin community watch" service. What a shame.
I received the below email from Judith


Hello Regular Reporters,



After 7 years I will no longer be working coin and stamp reports. I want to make you aware of a change that has occurred to the coin reporting process. Your reports are being automatically sent to a different tool to be reviewed and actioned. You will no longer receive responses to your reports and since I will no longer be reviewing them, I doubt that any action will be taken. Only reports sent from the listing page will reach an ebay representative. I fought against these changes but without success.



It has been a great pleasure working with all of you over the years and I sincerely appreciate the time and energy you spent helping the ebay site be a better place to buy and sell coins, currency and stamps. I didn't want you to think I just disappeared. I loved what I did and felt we all were making a difference, no matter how great or small. I will miss working with you.



Again, thank you gentlemen.



Very Best Regards,



Judith Stair

CW Policy

Ex-Coin and Stamp Policy Specialist
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."

Comments

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks, too bad they changed policies.

    I will continue reporting via the "report" link on the main auction page.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭
    back to the days of bidding millions on counterfeit coins I guess.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭

    got the same email.

    Judith says: "I doubt that any action will be taken."

    That took some guts, wonder if she will see blowback. I for one will be sending ebay my opinion on this draconian move. I urge others to do so. Have requested the best email address from Judith with which to do this.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had no idea that Coincopwife worked for eBay!!
  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For those interested in expressing your disappointment with this change to Ebay, below are the email addresses of Ebay's Big Kahuna. I sent an email last week and received a lengthy reply from his office.

    jdonahoe@ebay.com, john.donahoe@ebay.com

    Be careful about how you word things. The last thing we want to do is get Judith in trouble. Remember, she still works there.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>For those interested in expressing your disappointment with this change to Ebay, below are the email addresses of Ebay's Big Kahuna. I sent an email last week and received a lengthy reply from his office.

    jdonahoe@ebay.com, john.donahoe@ebay.com

    Be careful about how you word things. The last thing we want to do is get Judith in trouble. Remember, she still works there. >>


    And be sure to mention how she personally made ebay a safer place to buy and sell coins. It would also be nice to see some our members here who are very big sellers on ebay to forward their concerns to ebay as well.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    i have listed that diana barone is/was a senior manager, coins and bullion for ebay. fwiw.
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My ebay insider confirms this to be the best email at which to address your concerns:

    jdonahoe@ebay.com

    "Mr. Donahoe,

    It is with great sadness that I have learned of ebay's change to the method of reporting and handling suspected counterfeit coin, stamp and currency listings. For many years now ebay employee Judith Stair has made it much safer to buy and sell expensive coins, stamps and currency on ebay. Ebay's plan to cancel the existing method of dealing with such a serious threat to the coin collecting community will have repercussions to be felt for many years to come. There is a strong Chinese effort to counterfeit these items and they are getting better at it every day. While the Chinese producers have their own outlets to flood these items into the American market, they eventually end up on ebay for resale. For years now ebay has been known in the collecting community to take swift and decisive action with counterfeit coins. Ebay's change in policy will change it's reputation among that community.

    I have both bought and sold very expensive coins on ebay but will now be searching for a new venue. While my total sales on ebay exceed $600,000 I'm sure I am one of the small fish. It's seems Amazon is cranking up their competition with ebay and many of my fellow dealers are moving there because of recent ebay policy towards the seller, guess I'll see how things go there myself .

    For the record as a buyer and a seller of expensive coins on ebay I am in total disagreement with your change In policy. In fact, in light of the rapid growth of the number one source of Chinese counterfeits, Alibaba.com, it would only seem appropriate that ebay step up it's counter-counterfeit efforts. I suggest you visit alibaba.com and get a first hand look at the blatantly advertised "copy/replica" coins that Ms. Stair has been preventing from ending up in the hands of ebay buyers. I urge you to reconsider this change in policy and would advise you to fully utilize the experience and skills of Ms. Stair in IMPROVING ebay's anti-counterfeit efforts. Regardless of your final decision, please take the time in your busy schedule to personally thank Ms. Stair, on behalf of the coin collecting community, for her years of service in making ebay a safe place to buy and sell coins, stamps and currency. I do know, and you will learn, that her services in this area will be greatly missed.

    I am a member of a network of tens of thousands of coin dealers across the US, many who utilize ebay, and this IS the topic of the day.

    Thank you for your time."

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    But I thought everyone here is edumacated on how to spot a fake, at least that's the impression I always seem to get when a thread crops up about counterfeits. (sarcasm at it's finest).

    But seriously, this is a major loss for our community and I am really, and I mean heartfelt disapointed to hear this. Really makes one wonder what eBay's end goal is by loosening the grip on the counterfeiters and the people who sell counterfeit items on their site.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This may be the first step to eliminating coins on ebay.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • howardshowards Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    I will continue reporting via the "report" link on the main auction page.
    ( >>



    It's next to useless because you can't say why you are reporting the coin, and the canned responses frequently don't fit.
  • howardshowards Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This may be the first step to eliminating coins on ebay. >>



    It's at least a first step toward eliminating coin *buyers* on eBay. Once burned....
  • lostincoinslostincoins Posts: 4,278
    when you use the report item from main page choose:

    Report Category: copyright trademark

    Reason for Report:counterfeit item or authenticity issue

    info
    Detailed Reason
    info
    The item in the listing appears to be a counterfeit, fake, or replica.

      Then you can leave a statement. here is a link to look at
    • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
      Just reported this one under the copyright link, above. We'll see what happens. Obvious Chinese
      seller selling fakes.

      bobimage

      1889cc
      Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
    • lostincoinslostincoins Posts: 4,278
      we will see I reported it also under 5 different categories....
    • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭


      << <i>Just reported this one under the copyright link, above. We'll see what happens. Obvious Chinese
      seller selling fakes.

      bobimage

      1889cc >>



      6 sold in under 3 hours. There is NO WAY these will last long enough to be bounced. Methinks the 'cancelled after item ends' days are over, to boot.

      edited...if the coin community watch is disbanded, who will make the final decision on what is/is not a fake??
      I'll come up with something.
    • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
      All those cancelled auctions were cutting into eBay's fees.
    • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭


      << <i>All those cancelled auctions were cutting into eBay's fees. >>



      I guess too many were being reported.
      I'll come up with something.
    • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭


      << <i>Just reported this one under the copyright link, above. We'll see what happens. Obvious Chinese
      seller selling fakes.

      bobimage

      1889cc >>


      If that seller is really in Kansas, then I'm in Belize. 1. There is no such thing as USPS registered air mail. 2. 10-25 day delivery is unusually long, even for USPS registered mail. 3. Description was not written by someone with english as a first language ("we are serious seller").

      The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

    • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭


      << <i>when you use the report item from main page choose:

      Report Category: copyright trademark

      Reason for Report:counterfeit item or authenticity issue

      info
      Detailed Reason
      info
      The item in the listing appears to be a counterfeit, fake, or replica.

        Then you can leave a statement. here is a link to look at >>


        Your link has a predetermined item in it that cannot be changed. Try this one, and choose the copyright and trademark category.

        Report a fake or counterfeit item

        The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

      • howardshowards Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭


        << <i>
        Your link has a predetermined item in it that cannot be changed. Try this one, and choose the copyright and trademark category.

        Report a fake or counterfeit item >>



        That's okay if the reason you're trying to report an item is because it's counterfeit. There are other reasons for reporting (misrepresented) auctions, and no way to specify them.
      • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
        Will Google buy ebay/paypal? Is there a counterfeit website for buyers? I would be posting info to that effect in my auctions to get the word out. There must be an orchestrated effort from all numismatic means to get the word out on spotting counterfeits.

        The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

        My Jefferson Nickel Collection

      • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
        As more and more counterfeits slip through our now perforated wall, I predict a slow but inexorable rise in the number of "Ebay Buyer Protection" claims. Many of the buyers are not sophisticated enough to tell if they have been had, but many will. When they go to resell or send the coin to a TPG, they will learn and they won't be happy. At some point the losses from Buyer Protection claims may exceed the gains from Ebay's fraudulent fees. Only then will change occur. And I predict it won't be the obvious change (i.e. bring back Judith, et. al.), but rather another increase in Ebay fees to cover their losses in such a dangerous counterfeit prone category.
      • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
        Had a coin removed from ebay, likely from this group. But fortunately, I was able to sell on the BST. It was a legit coin. Perhaps, too often, this group doesn't really know for certain, only suspect, reported anyway and had become a problem. Maybe they/some were working for the TGPs.

        The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

        My Jefferson Nickel Collection

      • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


        << <i>Had a coin removed from ebay, likely from this group. >>

        Why do you think it was from this group? Was there a thread here about it?
      • CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭
        I've seen a lot of changes in ebay over the years, some good, some not so good................... I feel this one goes in the not so good category.

        Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

      • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,640 ✭✭✭✭✭


        << <i>Will Google buy ebay/paypal >>


        Perhaps Baidu will.
      • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
        Ebay's Enhanced Member Reporting (EMR) structure still exists, and this forum has at least a few members, according to DW. These ebay-approved, EMR "experts" have always been able to, and continue to be able to, shut down auctions with a simple online report.

        Even when the CW program existed ebay still waited for a report from an EMR expert, in most instances. You can imagine the number of reports from the community ebay received, and not just about coins, with probably a great many wrong. No doubt this was a factor in their decision.

        I'm not saying ebay made the right decision...just that I am not surprised by it. And that we still have an avenue to report fakes. Report them here as we always have done and an EMR member on this forum will likely act.
        Lance.

      • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
        Unfortunately, by the time most ebay buyers of counterfeits find out they were had (when they go to resell) their buyer protection will have expired and they will have no recourse with ebay or paypal; only a bad taste in their mouth about buying coins on ebay. That hurts all legitimate ebay sellers in the long run. This is why good ebay sellers of good coins need be concerned with ebay's treatment or lack of treatment with such bad sellers and their listings.

        The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

      • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
        UPDATE:

        Recently received this from our friend at ebay:

        "This is the draft form of an article about eBay's policy with follow up
        from the company.

        Recently, an email message crossed our desk from Jerry Fuller of the U.S.
        Mexican Numismatic Association. In the email, Fuller expressed his concern
        that eBay had recently done away with their Community Watch Committee, an
        all volunteer group assigned with policing eBay's numismatic marketplace.

        CoinWeek spoke with company representative Melissa Winter about the
        communique and asked what this shift in resources meant for eBay and
        numismatic marketplace. Winter said that the Community Watch Committee was
        disbanded due to problems with enforcing impartiality amongst its members.
        Also, Winter states, opinions of the genuineness of items were often
        contradictory. This lack of consensus, and eBay's feeling that they needed
        to streamline the process for practical and legal reasons led to the
        decision.


        Under the new regime, when eBay customers report a suspicious item, eBay
        will attempt to validate the items on a case-by-case basis.

        The impact of this policy shift will play out in the days and weeks.
        CoinWeek will continue to follow this story."

        The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

      • The article is poor, filled with inaccuracies and is evidence of the fact that the journalists were so keen to get into print that they failed to do any checking. They also failed to asked Winter the probing questions that would have uncovered her lies.

        Winter LIED and is nothing whatsoever to do with CCW and EMR's. Just one of those lies was about impartiality, the next one was about contradictory opinions ... I could go on, but I guess you get the picture.

        I happen to know that a lot of members who are in the know have been approached by CoinWeek and so expect a more accurate and more damning article very soon.


      • << <i>Ebay's Enhanced Member Reporting (EMR) structure still exists, and this forum has at least a few members, according to DW. These ebay-approved, EMR "experts" have always been able to, and continue to be able to, shut down auctions with a simple online report.

        Even when the CW program existed ebay still waited for a report from an EMR expert, in most instances. You can imagine the number of reports from the community ebay received, and not just about coins, with probably a great many wrong. No doubt this was a factor in their decision.

        I'm not saying ebay made the right decision...just that I am not surprised by it. And that we still have an avenue to report fakes. Report them here as we always have done and an EMR member on this forum will likely act.
        Lance. >>



        Just so we are clear, reports that were sent into eBay were forwarded to EMR's as TPR's, Third Party Reports, but this no longer happens. Any remaining EMR's can originate reports but they are sometimes actioned, sometimes ignored and if the auction has finished, invariably ignored. There is now no evidence of accounts being closed, even the scum Chinese ones.

        We are no more than weeks away from a Wild West scenario.
      • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
        The impact will not play out in days nor weeks. It will be years as the counterfeits are finally unmasked and there will be nothing the buyer can do about it.

        It's laughable ebay claims they have no experts, will evaluate reports, and think they are going to do better with counterfeits.




        Impartiality: the only thing I can think of in this case is allowing some known counterfeits go - eg Henning nickels
        Otherwise I can't think of what they'd be talking about.



        Still laughing at the thought of an ebay csr determining if a coin is fake or not & that this will be better.




        Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
      • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
        If I had deeper pockets (much deeper!), I'd start buying every fake I see on Ebay. After each one arrived, I'd ask for a refund, and when the seller refused, I'd immediately file a Buyer Protection claim. Only when it starts hurting the bottom line will Ebay change.

        Unfortunately, what would probably happen is that Ebay would NARU me as a "problem buyer" and let the frauds continue selling their fakes and bringing in illicit fees...
      • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭


        << <i>

        << <i>Ebay's Enhanced Member Reporting (EMR) structure still exists, and this forum has at least a few members, according to DW. These ebay-approved, EMR "experts" have always been able to, and continue to be able to, shut down auctions with a simple online report.

        Even when the CW program existed ebay still waited for a report from an EMR expert, in most instances. You can imagine the number of reports from the community ebay received, and not just about coins, with probably a great many wrong. No doubt this was a factor in their decision.

        I'm not saying ebay made the right decision...just that I am not surprised by it. And that we still have an avenue to report fakes. Report them here as we always have done and an EMR member on this forum will likely act.
        Lance. >>



        Just so we are clear, reports that were sent into eBay were forwarded to EMR's as TPR's, Third Party Reports, but this no longer happens. Any remaining EMR's can originate reports but they are sometimes actioned, sometimes ignored and if the auction has finished, invariably ignored. There is now no evidence of accounts being closed, even the scum Chinese ones.

        We are no more than weeks away from a Wild West scenario. >>

        Okay, let's be clear.

        No, third party reports were never forwarded to EMR's. They sat, awaiting reports from trusted EMR's. Sometimes a preponderance of third party reports alone were enough.

        EMR reports are acted on...not "sometimes ignored". And ended auctions are not "invariably ignored". They may present special problems but ebay still goes after them.
        Lance.


      • << <i>

        << <i>

        << <i>Ebay's Enhanced Member Reporting (EMR) structure still exists, and this forum has at least a few members, according to DW. These ebay-approved, EMR "experts" have always been able to, and continue to be able to, shut down auctions with a simple online report.

        Even when the CW program existed ebay still waited for a report from an EMR expert, in most instances. You can imagine the number of reports from the community ebay received, and not just about coins, with probably a great many wrong. No doubt this was a factor in their decision.

        **No, I can tell you for a fact that all reports from non-trusted members were forwarded to EMR's. Although EMR's created their own reports, they had other lives and did not sit at their computers looking for counterfeits. I know exactly what Judith and her team received, what they dealt with themselves and how the rest were dealt with. The bulk of reports tended to come from well-informed eBay users and were usually upheld by the EMR's.**

        I'm not saying ebay made the right decision...just that I am not surprised by it. And that we still have an avenue to report fakes. Report them here as we always have done and an EMR member on this forum will likely act.

        **The information about the current effectiveness of EMR's is also entirely accurate and I believe a detailed article is soon to be published on the CoinWeek site.**

        Lance. >>



        Just so we are clear, reports that were sent into eBay were forwarded to EMR's as TPR's, Third Party Reports, but this no longer happens. Any remaining EMR's can originate reports but they are sometimes actioned, sometimes ignored and if the auction has finished, invariably ignored. There is now no evidence of accounts being closed, even the scum Chinese ones.

        We are no more than weeks away from a Wild West scenario. >>

        Okay, let's be clear.

        **No, third party reports were never forwarded to EMR's. They sat, awaiting reports from trusted EMR's. Sometimes a preponderance of third party reports alone were enough.

        As I said, EMR's were sent TPR's and that is a fact. A preponderance of reports helps but is not always a guarantee of action from eBay. It always was when Judith steered the ship, except in the case of some Top Rated Sellers who have their own account managers and are virtually flame-proof.**

        EMR reports are acted on...not "sometimes ignored". And ended auctions are not "invariably ignored". They may present special problems but ebay still goes after them.

        **They are not always acted upon and EMR's who report completed listings have already discovered that they are wasting their time. I would add to this that EMR's used to be able to report to Judith counterfeits in the English language on other eBay sites. This was done by email because the EMR tool, sent directly to the site's T & S was always ignored. Now that CCW is gone, any counterfeits listed on the UK site, for example, will not be removed, whether an EMR reports them or even speaks to T & S staff. The news is only slightly better on the German site because one of the EMR's speaks German and has forged a relationship with some of the German T & S staff.**

        Lance. >>

      • Just as one example of eBay new and improved policy, take a look at this listing:

        http://www.ebay.com/itm/1893-S-morgan-Silver-Dollar-/231247463956

        This was reported by many on CU and by EMR's when the listing was active. It was also reported after the listing ended. The seller is a persistent seller of counterfeits and has been mentioned elsewhere on CU.

        I believe that one of the CU folks "bought" the coin to out it and the seller, who received an immediate negative but if the listing is not removed, there is a risk that the system will nag the "buyer" who may receive a non-paying bidder strike.

        Here is another one from this crook, that was reported many times by CU folks and EMR's and continues to be ignored by eBay:

        http://www.ebay.com/itm/1893-s-morgan-back-has-been-shot-by-bullet-/231224959817

        Fortunately, the unlucky buyer of this one, who left positive feedback for the crook has now been tipped off:

        http://www.ebay.com/itm/1893-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-/231245148755


      • << <i>Just as one example of eBay new and improved policy, take a look at this listing:

        http://www.ebay.com/itm/1893-S-morgan-Silver-Dollar-/231247463956

        This was reported by many on CU and by EMR's when the listing was active. It was also reported after the listing ended. The seller is a persistent seller of counterfeits and has been mentioned elsewhere on CU. >>



        If anyone is still in any doubt about eBay's motives and ethos, you will find that the negative left by the buyer of this coin has now been removed. So the scammer can carry on generating profits for eBay, with his 100% poitive feedback record. Here is the feedback that was removed:


        COUNTERFEIT. ILLEGAL. BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        r***a
        Jun-08-14 21:19
        1893 S morgan Silver Dollar (#231247463956) US $1,275.00
      • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


        << <i>

        << <i>Just as one example of eBay new and improved policy, take a look at this listing:

        http://www.ebay.com/itm/1893-S-morgan-Silver-Dollar-/231247463956

        This was reported by many on CU and by EMR's when the listing was active. It was also reported after the listing ended. The seller is a persistent seller of counterfeits and has been mentioned elsewhere on CU. >>



        If anyone is still in any doubt about eBay's motives and ethos, you will find that the negative left by the buyer of this coin has now been removed. So the scammer can carry on generating profits for eBay, with his 100% poitive feedback record. Here is the feedback that was removed:


        COUNTERFEIT. ILLEGAL. BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        r***a
        Jun-08-14 21:19
        1893 S morgan Silver Dollar (#231247463956) US $1,275.00 >>



        Buyer should have waited at least 7 days before leaving a neg. Immediate negs, before items are received, shipped or paid for, will be removed if the seller complains. It's been like that for some time.
        "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
      • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


        << <i>when you use the report item from main page choose:

        Report Category: copyright trademark

        Reason for Report:counterfeit item or authenticity issue

        Detailed Reason: The item in the listing appears to be a counterfeit, fake, or replica. >>



        here is one to practice on!
        .

        <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

      • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭


        << <i>

        << <i>

        << <i>

        << <i>Ebay's Enhanced Member Reporting (EMR) structure still exists, and this forum has at least a few members, according to DW. These ebay-approved, EMR "experts" have always been able to, and continue to be able to, shut down auctions with a simple online report.

        Even when the CW program existed ebay still waited for a report from an EMR expert, in most instances. You can imagine the number of reports from the community ebay received, and not just about coins, with probably a great many wrong. No doubt this was a factor in their decision.

        **No, I can tell you for a fact that all reports from non-trusted members were forwarded to EMR's. Although EMR's created their own reports, they had other lives and did not sit at their computers looking for counterfeits. I know exactly what Judith and her team received, what they dealt with themselves and how the rest were dealt with. The bulk of reports tended to come from well-informed eBay users and were usually upheld by the EMR's.**

        I'm not saying ebay made the right decision...just that I am not surprised by it. And that we still have an avenue to report fakes. Report them here as we always have done and an EMR member on this forum will likely act.

        **The information about the current effectiveness of EMR's is also entirely accurate and I believe a detailed article is soon to be published on the CoinWeek site.**

        Lance. >>



        Just so we are clear, reports that were sent into eBay were forwarded to EMR's as TPR's, Third Party Reports, but this no longer happens. Any remaining EMR's can originate reports but they are sometimes actioned, sometimes ignored and if the auction has finished, invariably ignored. There is now no evidence of accounts being closed, even the scum Chinese ones.

        We are no more than weeks away from a Wild West scenario. >>

        Okay, let's be clear.

        No, third party reports were never forwarded to EMR's. They sat, awaiting reports from trusted EMR's. Sometimes a preponderance of third party reports alone were enough.

        **As I said, EMR's were sent TPR's and that is a fact. A preponderance of reports helps but is not always a guarantee of action from eBay. It always was when Judith steered the ship, except in the case of some Top Rated Sellers who have their own account managers and are virtually flame-proof.**

        EMR reports are acted on...not "sometimes ignored". And ended auctions are not "invariably ignored". They may present special problems but ebay still goes after them.

        **They are not always acted upon and EMR's who report completed listings have already discovered that they are wasting their time. I would add to this that EMR's used to be able to report to Judith counterfeits in the English language on other eBay sites. This was done by email because the EMR tool, sent directly to the site's T & S was always ignored. Now that CCW is gone, any counterfeits listed on the UK site, for example, will not be removed, whether an EMR reports them or even speaks to T & S staff. The news is only slightly better on the German site because one of the EMR's speaks German and has forged a relationship with some of the German T & S staff.** >>

        >>


        It sounds like your understanding of how reports from EMRs are handled is different from my experience. If you'd like to have an exchange by PM I'd be happy to.
        Lance.


      • << <i>It sounds like your understanding of how reports from EMRs are handled is different from my experience. If you'd like to have an exchange by PM I'd be happy to.
        Lance. >>



        Lance, I tried to PM you but the system defeated me. I am hoping that if you PM me, I will be able to respond directly to the message.
      • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,284 ✭✭✭✭✭


        << <i>

        << <i>It sounds like your understanding of how reports from EMRs are handled is different from my experience. If you'd like to have an exchange by PM I'd be happy to.
        Lance. >>



        Lance, I tried to PM you but the system defeated me. I am hoping that if you PM me, I will be able to respond directly to the message. >>



        He can't. You haven't enabled your PM function in your profile......

        I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

      • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,284 ✭✭✭✭✭


        << <i>The impact will not play out in days nor weeks. It will be years as the counterfeits are finally unmasked and there will be nothing the buyer can do about it.

        It's laughable ebay claims they have no experts, will evaluate reports, and think they are going to do better with counterfeits.




        Impartiality: the only thing I can think of in this case is allowing some known counterfeits go - eg Henning nickels
        Otherwise I can't think of what they'd be talking about.



        Still laughing at the thought of an ebay csr determining if a coin is fake or not & that this will be better. >>




        Actually, given the quoted bit here, from what derryb had given:
        Winter said that the Community Watch Committee was
        disbanded due to problems with enforcing impartiality amongst its members.
        Also, Winter states, opinions of the genuineness of items were often
        contradictory. This lack of consensus, and eBay's feeling that they needed
        to streamline the process for practical and legal reasons led to the
        decision.


        It makes some sense. There were more than a few threads of people complaining that their auctions were being shut down, repeatedly, and claims of being non-genuine as the reason. They also pointed out similar auctions that were NOT shut down in the same period.
        Since it was a COMMUNITY WATCH (non-ebay employees, right?) that was disbanded, and lack of impartiality stated, along with potential legal reasons, then it really makes some sense.

        Could they have done it better? Probably. They don't know the area, though, and it would take time and effort, and oversight, to do it right.

        I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

      • derrybderryb Posts: 36,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
        It would be in ebay's best interest to hire an experienced grader (or more) or at least have one on retainer to handle reports of counterfeits. They might even contract this service out to one of the TPGs. And a policy of "clear pictures of coins/holders are required, if authenticity cannot be confirmed from the picture ebay will, in effort to protect our buyers, remove such listings." This "reported items not authentic until confirmed by qualified ebay personnel from clear pictures" policy would improve the quality of the pictures a buyer sees as well as protect buyers. This will, of course, require an experienced grader's input. The question ebay has to address is would the results and savings to ebay in reduced losses justify the cost. Hopefully they would include increased sales (due to adequate screening of counterfeits) in their analysis.

        The TPGs need to take a proactive roll in coming to a worthwhile ebay screening process since TPG holders are being counterfeited as well as raw coins. The success of ebay coin and currency sales has a direct impact on the hobby and on the TPGs.

        The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.



      • << <i>

        << <i>The impact will not play out in days nor weeks. It will be years as the counterfeits are finally unmasked and there will be nothing the buyer can do about it.

        It's laughable ebay claims they have no experts, will evaluate reports, and think they are going to do better with counterfeits.




        Impartiality: the only thing I can think of in this case is allowing some known counterfeits go - eg Henning nickels
        Otherwise I can't think of what they'd be talking about.



        Still laughing at the thought of an ebay csr determining if a coin is fake or not & that this will be better. >>




        Actually, given the quoted bit here, from what derryb had given:
        Winter said that the Community Watch Committee was
        disbanded due to problems with enforcing impartiality amongst its members.
        Also, Winter states, opinions of the genuineness of items were often
        contradictory. This lack of consensus, and eBay's feeling that they needed
        to streamline the process for practical and legal reasons led to the
        decision.


        It makes some sense. There were more than a few threads of people complaining that their auctions were being shut down, repeatedly, and claims of being non-genuine as the reason. They also pointed out similar auctions that were NOT shut down in the same period.
        Since it was a COMMUNITY WATCH (non-ebay employees, right?) that was disbanded, and lack of impartiality stated, along with potential legal reasons, then it really makes some sense.

        Could they have done it better? Probably. They don't know the area, though, and it would take time and effort, and oversight, to do it right. >>



        Winter, who has nothing to do with CCW - Coin Community Watch, not a committee, and she didn't even know that - lied. Most listings were cancelled with very good reason and any that should have been and were not were missed and not submitted as TPR's. There were absolutely no problems with impartiality and consensus from EMR' s was damn nigh 100%. Winter lies, eBay lies, it's all about the profits.

        You could use externals but you'd need more than one of those and eBay won't pay and one of the first EMR's it culled before destroying CCW was a specialist on Chinese coins and on counterfeiting techniques in general. The TPG's are consistently useless in policing their own products, know precious little about some areas, such as old Chinese coins and exist to make profits. There are no prizes for guessing which two TPG's are the most likely to grade AT'd coins!

        Frankly, what eBay had may not have been perfect but now it's a scammer's free for all. If eBay ever had any interest in improving counterfeit detection and making eBay a safer place, it would have consulted Judith and her team - it never did. Judith and her team were in Salt Lake City, the twerps who killed CCW are in California. It's all about the profits even if it means that the hobby goes to hell. Well, I won't be sending Donahoe a Christmas card this year. how about you?

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