<< <i>Market share for SGC pre-war cards is easily 50%.
PSA is undisputed king by a large margin for anything post-war to modern issues, but again, you are making blanket statements with no knowledge of the hobby. >>
Current Pre-War listings on ebay:
Not Professionally Graded (2,419)
Beckett (BVG) (547)
Global Authentics (GAI) (94)
Professional Sports (PSA) (15,015)
Sportscard (SGC) (4,952) >>
I wouldn't put too much stock in listings for ebay categories and titles, as many sellers use "PSA" in title even when card is not PSA graded, particularly due to the SGC grading scale, but you can see by those figures that SGC is quite relevant for pre-war cards. If you are familiar with Net54, which is the pre-war forum of choice among collectors, you will quickly see that SGC cards are represented very well for this era of collecting. >>
Are you a politician? Show some proof of what you state. You stated something, it was proven very wrong, you come back with basically nothing. >>
Are you claiming that sellers with SGC cards graded from 10-100 don't often add the PSA 1-10 grade in the title when they list a card on ebay? If so, your contention is as incorrect as your claim that market share for SGC cards is 5% when applied to pre-war cards. Do a little research first before making blanket inaccurate blanket statements.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
BTW, even with those skewed ebay results, 25% is five times 5%.
More interesting, too, would be an actual comparison of realized prices of SGC graded pre-war cards vs PSA graded pre-war cards.
For the record, I prefer and collect PSA graded cards exclusively, as my collection spans from 1970 to 1980, and PSA is unquestionably the leading card grading company for that era and post-war to modern eras in general. But it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that ALL SGC cards are essentially RAW just because they're not PSA graded and that anyone ssubmitting cards to SGC is basically throwing away their money. That is an inaccurate blanket statement and that was the point of my post.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>PSA has stated at investor conferences that they have 90%+ market share. The webcast and presentation is still on the CU website >>
SGC has like 3% market share currently. It used to be higher. A lot of the older cards have been graded over the past 20 years so using data of existing cards is really not the best approach.
It is true that there are plenty of collectors of much older cards that really like the company.
<< <i>BTW, even with those skewed ebay results, 25% is five times 5%. >>
Hey, you are a politician!!! Now you are cherry picking a small segment of the overall market. When SGC goes belly up, you'll be crying in your beer >>
LOL, I don't even collect SGC cards, as I stated above. But you made a blanket statement that was proven to be false in the case of pre-war graded cards, a topic about which I'm virtually certain you have absolutely no knowledge.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>BTW, even with those skewed ebay results, 25% is five times 5%. >>
Hey, you are a politician!!! Now you are cherry picking a small segment of the overall market. When SGC goes belly up, you'll be crying in your beer >>
LOL, I don't even collect SGC cards, as I stated above. But you made a blanket statement that was proven to be false in the case of pre-war graded cards, a topic about which I'm virtually certain you have absolutely no knowledge. >>
WTH are you talking about? I made the statement that PSA claims 90%+ market share. I said nothing about a small segment
<< <i>BTW, even with those skewed ebay results, 25% is five times 5%. >>
Hey, you are a politician!!! Now you are cherry picking a small segment of the overall market. When SGC goes belly up, you'll be crying in your beer >>
LOL, I don't even collect SGC cards, as I stated above. But you made a blanket statement that was proven to be false in the case of pre-war graded cards, a topic about which I'm virtually certain you have absolutely no knowledge. >>
WTH are you talking about? I made the statement that PSA claims 90%+ market share. I said nothing about a small segment >>
Forget it, man, I don't have time to keep reiterating why these blanket statements of yours were were ill-informed and inaccurate:
SGC and Beckett are considered RAW
Submitting to SGC or Beckett even at reduced prices is basically THROWING your money away. You might at well buy a good cigar with that money and get 30 minutes worth of enjoyment.
Carry on..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
From what I can tell, 707 is the DOLLAR STORE compared to deans_cards. For what that guy charges, if I ever bought anything from him I would expect it to be delivered to me in a frickin' limo. ~WalterSobchak
<< <i>Out of curiosity, what does the db stand for? >>
Database. I am a DBA. On yahoo I go by dbtunr. Database tuner or someone who optimizes databases. It's a living, or was. I haven't done that work in a while. Too many nights, weekends, and holidays
Modern Auto Rookies - Beckett Pre-War (especially Pre-1930) - SGC Everything else - PSA
BGS 10's (modern auto rookies) tend to sell more than PSA.
Pre-war (pre-1930) tend to stay close with PSA in price. I would say PSA's prices are higher but not by a tremendous amount. Of course, you will find times where an SGC example with out perform PSA. Now my belief is SGC does a better and more consistent grading than PSA on Pre-War (please don't ban me.....PLEASE). Not to mention pre-war looks more elegant in a SGC holder. Most collectors of pre-war will go with SGC everyday over PSA (I spend a lot of time on Net54 which most members are pre-war collectors and they can validate).
I would tend to believe that Tim may more right than wrong on his premise that SGC has just as much pre-war graded than PSA. Just my opinion and experience.
I prefer PSA at the moment and for older cards, also grade thru bgs and sgc.
But it would be interesting to see the age demographics of PSA vs BGS. 22 yr old being the largest age group in the USA at the moment, i would think BGS has a larger % for younger collectors. As the years past and older collectors that prefer PSA stop collecting. BGS may take a larger % as the years go on. it may be 10,15 or 20 years, but when the younger collectors reach the disposable income generation collector, who knows which company will be the king.
<< <i>PSA has stated at investor conferences that they have 90%+ market share. The webcast and presentation is still on the CU website >>
SGC has like 3% market share currently. It used to be higher. A lot of the older cards have been graded over the past 20 years so using data of existing cards is really not the best approach.
It is true that there are plenty of collectors of much older cards that really like the company. >>
Good point. I am a financial advisor and I see clients focus on the past results of a company not the current or future. Not that looking at the past is not of some value. But often overstates the future often time.
DB Cooper was a nice redirect; but I was enjoying the part about a certain submitter paying like $3 a card and making the entire playing field unfair. If a submitter sends in 20,000 cards in a few boxes....I think this stops the anonymous part right there. Then they get a totally different price structure.......totally different turnaround time........totally different process in which the cards are graded and encapsulated (raw card review basically). I'm still trying to figure out how the submitter remains anonymous in this process. Then all of those cards are shipped back, probably using a different tiered shipping price also. I've always thought this is destructive for the hobby in the long run.
<< <i>DB Cooper was a nice redirect; but I was enjoying the part about a certain submitter paying like $3 a card and making the entire playing field unfair. If a submitter sends in 20,000 cards in a few boxes....I think this stops the anonymous part right there. Then they get a totally different price structure.......totally different turnaround time........totally different process in which the cards are graded and encapsulated (raw card review basically). I'm still trying to figure out how the submitter remains anonymous in this process. Then all of those cards are shipped back, probably using a different tiered shipping price also. I've always thought this is destructive for the hobby in the long run. >>
I think you over estimate how much they submit. According to the SEC filings, the top 5 submitters of coins and cards only account for something like 15% of all the revenue. Based that coin revenue is 3X of card revenue, they are probably all coin customers like Apmex, Spectrum, HSN and Heritage. That means the largest card submitter probably does less than $1M/yr in revenue.
<< <i>It should be no secret. Post the bulk prices and let anyone enjoy. If they say $2.50/per at 50k cards per month then offer it to everyone. Not sure why you should have to negotiate for larger orders. >>
call them up, negotiate a rate and sign a contract committing to that amount monthly. anyone can do and the negotiation is not that painful. 4sharp just happens to be one of the few who put up the cash and stepped up to the plate to do it
I'm sure they have graded over a million cards over the past few years. They have sold probably over a million cards on EBAY alone. It's not like the $8.99 PSA 10's are being consigned......of course they submitted them. I'm done talking about this as I enjoy these boards and know that it is a privilage to be on here.
Logistically speaking, I believe the quantity amount has almost as much impact as the price. Ever order follows the same routine. So grading 50 cards may be as easy or as time consuming as grading 22 cards because of this internal control processes set up; from receiving department to pop report.
<< <i>Logistically speaking, I believe the quantity amount has almost as much impact as the price. Ever order follows the same routine. So grading 50 cards may be as easy or as time consuming as grading 22 cards because of this internal control processes set up; from receiving department to pop report. >>
Every card from every order has to be entered and verified, so your statement is not totally correct
You also have to look at timing. With the Nationals in a couple months, June may be PSA's busiest time. You have to believe dealers are sending more cards hoping for 10's or a review POP.
<< <i>Logistically speaking, I believe the quantity amount has almost as much impact as the price. Ever order follows the same routine. So grading 50 cards may be as easy or as time consuming as grading 22 cards because of this internal control processes set up; from receiving department to pop report. >>
Every card from every order has to be entered and verified, so your statement is not totally correct >>
For example, I am a CPA. I can do tax returns for $75 a piece all day long. But I have to meet with people, copy their info, process the return, call the people back and discuss, process the return, pdf all the info into my database and then have an exit meeting to hand of the info. I have to do this with every client, the $75 ones and the $500 ones. Do the $500 ones take more time, yes, but not necessarily 7 times more time. Do I make more profit on the $500 ones , yes. Can I do a seventh of the returns and still make the same money, yes I can.
So I can do a multitude of returns, deal with people (personalities, more questions, more meetings, more phone calls, etc) for $75/return. Or I can do with less of all of that for a more money and still make the same money overall. Which one makes more sense?
<< <i>Logistically speaking, I believe the quantity amount has almost as much impact as the price. Ever order follows the same routine. So grading 50 cards may be as easy or as time consuming as grading 22 cards because of this internal control processes set up; from receiving department to pop report. >>
Every card from every order has to be entered and verified, so your statement is not totally correct >>
For example, I am a CPA. I can do tax returns for $75 a piece all day long. But I have to meet with people, copy their info, process the return, call the people back and discuss, process the return, pdf all the info into my database and then have an exit meeting to hand of the info. I have to do this with every client, the $75 ones and the $500 ones. Do the $500 ones take more time, yes, but not necessarily 7 times more time. Do I make more profit on the $500 ones , yes. Can I do a seventh of the returns and still make the same money, yes I can.
So I can do a multitude of returns, deal with people (personalities, more questions, more meetings, more phone calls, etc) for $75/return. Or I can do with less of all of that for a more money and still make the same money overall. Which one makes more sense? >>
There is no way they are paying $4. They wouldn't be subbing cards like this.
Using 4 SC for cards from cheaper sets is better then subbing yourself in many cases because if the card comes in lower then you want you have just lost money.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Market share for SGC pre-war cards is easily 50%.
PSA is undisputed king by a large margin for anything post-war to modern issues, but again, you are making blanket statements with no knowledge of the hobby. >>
Current Pre-War listings on ebay:
Not Professionally Graded (2,419)
Beckett (BVG) (547)
Global Authentics (GAI) (94)
Professional Sports (PSA) (15,015)
Sportscard (SGC) (4,952) >>
I wouldn't put too much stock in listings for ebay categories and titles, as many sellers use "PSA" in title even when card is not PSA graded, particularly due to the SGC grading scale, but you can see by those figures that SGC is quite relevant for pre-war cards. If you are familiar with Net54, which is the pre-war forum of choice among collectors, you will quickly see that SGC cards are represented very well for this era of collecting. >>
Are you a politician? Show some proof of what you state. You stated something, it was proven very wrong, you come back with basically nothing. >>
Are you claiming that sellers with SGC cards graded from 10-100 don't often add the PSA 1-10 grade in the title when they list a card on ebay? If so, your contention is as incorrect as your claim that market share for SGC cards is 5% when applied to pre-war cards. Do a little research first before making blanket inaccurate blanket statements.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
More interesting, too, would be an actual comparison of realized prices of SGC graded pre-war cards vs PSA graded pre-war cards.
For the record, I prefer and collect PSA graded cards exclusively, as my collection spans from 1970 to 1980, and PSA is unquestionably the leading card grading company for that era and post-war to modern eras in general. But it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that ALL SGC cards are essentially RAW just because they're not PSA graded and that anyone ssubmitting cards to SGC is basically throwing away their money. That is an inaccurate blanket statement and that was the point of my post.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>BTW, even with those skewed ebay results, 25% is five times 5%. >>
Hey, you are a politician!!! Now you are cherry picking a small segment of the overall market. When SGC goes belly up, you'll be crying in your beer
<< <i>PSA has stated at investor conferences that they have 90%+ market share. The webcast and presentation is still on the CU website >>
SGC has like 3% market share currently. It used to be higher. A lot of the older cards have been graded over the past 20 years so using data of existing cards is really not the best approach.
It is true that there are plenty of collectors of much older cards that really like the company.
<< <i>
<< <i>BTW, even with those skewed ebay results, 25% is five times 5%. >>
Hey, you are a politician!!! Now you are cherry picking a small segment of the overall market. When SGC goes belly up, you'll be crying in your beer >>
LOL, I don't even collect SGC cards, as I stated above. But you made a blanket statement that was proven to be false in the case of pre-war graded cards, a topic about which I'm virtually certain you have absolutely no knowledge.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>BTW, even with those skewed ebay results, 25% is five times 5%. >>
Hey, you are a politician!!! Now you are cherry picking a small segment of the overall market. When SGC goes belly up, you'll be crying in your beer >>
LOL, I don't even collect SGC cards, as I stated above. But you made a blanket statement that was proven to be false in the case of pre-war graded cards, a topic about which I'm virtually certain you have absolutely no knowledge. >>
WTH are you talking about? I made the statement that PSA claims 90%+ market share. I said nothing about a small segment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>BTW, even with those skewed ebay results, 25% is five times 5%. >>
Hey, you are a politician!!! Now you are cherry picking a small segment of the overall market. When SGC goes belly up, you'll be crying in your beer >>
LOL, I don't even collect SGC cards, as I stated above. But you made a blanket statement that was proven to be false in the case of pre-war graded cards, a topic about which I'm virtually certain you have absolutely no knowledge. >>
WTH are you talking about? I made the statement that PSA claims 90%+ market share. I said nothing about a small segment >>
Forget it, man, I don't have time to keep reiterating why these blanket statements of yours were were ill-informed and inaccurate:
SGC and Beckett are considered RAW
Submitting to SGC or Beckett even at reduced prices is basically THROWING your money away. You might at well buy a good cigar with that money and get 30 minutes worth of enjoyment.
Carry on..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
~WalterSobchak
<< <i>Out of curiosity, what does the db stand for? >>
Database. I am a DBA. On yahoo I go by dbtunr. Database tuner or someone who optimizes databases. It's a living, or was. I haven't done that work in a while. Too many nights, weekends, and holidays
<< <i>Out of curiosity, what does the db stand for? >>
Or, just maybe....
Modern Auto Rookies - Beckett
Pre-War (especially Pre-1930) - SGC
Everything else - PSA
BGS 10's (modern auto rookies) tend to sell more than PSA.
Pre-war (pre-1930) tend to stay close with PSA in price. I would say PSA's prices are higher but not by a tremendous amount. Of course, you will find times where an SGC example with out perform PSA. Now my belief is SGC does a better and more consistent grading than PSA on Pre-War (please don't ban me.....PLEASE). Not to mention pre-war looks more elegant in a SGC holder. Most collectors of pre-war will go with SGC everyday over PSA (I spend a lot of time on Net54 which most members are pre-war collectors and they can validate).
I would tend to believe that Tim may more right than wrong on his premise that SGC has just as much pre-war graded than PSA. Just my opinion and experience.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
But it would be interesting to see the age demographics of PSA vs BGS. 22 yr old being the largest age group in the USA at the moment, i would think BGS has a larger % for younger collectors.
As the years past and older collectors that prefer PSA stop collecting. BGS may take a larger % as the years go on. it may be 10,15 or 20 years, but when the younger collectors reach the disposable income generation collector, who knows which company will be the king.
<< <i>
<< <i>PSA has stated at investor conferences that they have 90%+ market share. The webcast and presentation is still on the CU website >>
SGC has like 3% market share currently. It used to be higher. A lot of the older cards have been graded over the past 20 years so using data of existing cards is really not the best approach.
It is true that there are plenty of collectors of much older cards that really like the company. >>
Good point. I am a financial advisor and I see clients focus on the past results of a company not the current or future. Not that looking at the past is not of some value. But often overstates the future often time.
<< <i>DB Cooper was a nice redirect; but I was enjoying the part about a certain submitter paying like $3 a card and making the entire playing field unfair. If a submitter sends in 20,000 cards in a few boxes....I think this stops the anonymous part right there. Then they get a totally different price structure.......totally different turnaround time........totally different process in which the cards are graded and encapsulated (raw card review basically). I'm still trying to figure out how the submitter remains anonymous in this process. Then all of those cards are shipped back, probably using a different tiered shipping price also. I've always thought this is destructive for the hobby in the long run.
I think you over estimate how much they submit. According to the SEC filings, the top 5 submitters of coins and cards only account for something like 15% of all the revenue. Based that coin revenue is 3X of card revenue, they are probably all coin customers like Apmex, Spectrum, HSN and Heritage. That means the largest card submitter probably does less than $1M/yr in revenue.
<< <i>It should be no secret. Post the bulk prices and let anyone enjoy. If they say $2.50/per at 50k cards per month then offer it to everyone. Not sure why you should have to negotiate for larger orders. >>
call them up, negotiate a rate and sign a contract committing to that amount monthly. anyone can do and the negotiation is not that painful. 4sharp just happens to be one of the few who put up the cash and stepped up to the plate to do it
Bart Starr
Obviously there is time to go on this and it will be interesting to see how it fairs in relation to a PSA 9.
The SMR has it at $18,500 in a PSA 9 and $4,500 in a PSA 8.5.
There are two sales listed A PSA Mint 9 Starr rookie sold for $29,170 in 2006 and $16,332 in 2007
The guide has the Unitas at the same price and the last sale from 2012 was listed at $27,205.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>I'm probably in the minority, but I believe it's a great thing that PSA is raising prices on junk cards. It should be in the $8-9 range IMO. >>
I'm OK with $6-$7. Get a 4-6 months on that and see how it affects the numbers. I can't see how they can make money at $5
<< <i>Logistically speaking, I believe the quantity amount has almost as much impact as the price. Ever order follows the same routine. So grading 50 cards may be as easy or as time consuming as grading 22 cards because of this internal control processes set up; from receiving department to pop report. >>
Every card from every order has to be entered and verified, so your statement is not totally correct
<< <i>
<< <i>Logistically speaking, I believe the quantity amount has almost as much impact as the price. Ever order follows the same routine. So grading 50 cards may be as easy or as time consuming as grading 22 cards because of this internal control processes set up; from receiving department to pop report. >>
Every card from every order has to be entered and verified, so your statement is not totally correct >>
For example, I am a CPA. I can do tax returns for $75 a piece all day long. But I have to meet with people, copy their info, process the return, call the people back and discuss, process the return, pdf all the info into my database and then have an exit meeting to hand of the info. I have to do this with every client, the $75 ones and the $500 ones. Do the $500 ones take more time, yes, but not necessarily 7 times more time. Do I make more profit on the $500 ones , yes. Can I do a seventh of the returns and still make the same money, yes I can.
So I can do a multitude of returns, deal with people (personalities, more questions, more meetings, more phone calls, etc) for $75/return. Or I can do with less of all of that for a more money and still make the same money overall. Which one makes more sense?
Snipe bids took it from $8,600 to $17,652.52. WOW!!!
The gap between the third bidder and the under bidder is $7,661.41.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Logistically speaking, I believe the quantity amount has almost as much impact as the price. Ever order follows the same routine. So grading 50 cards may be as easy or as time consuming as grading 22 cards because of this internal control processes set up; from receiving department to pop report. >>
Every card from every order has to be entered and verified, so your statement is not totally correct >>
For example, I am a CPA. I can do tax returns for $75 a piece all day long. But I have to meet with people, copy their info, process the return, call the people back and discuss, process the return, pdf all the info into my database and then have an exit meeting to hand of the info. I have to do this with every client, the $75 ones and the $500 ones. Do the $500 ones take more time, yes, but not necessarily 7 times more time. Do I make more profit on the $500 ones , yes. Can I do a seventh of the returns and still make the same money, yes I can.
So I can do a multitude of returns, deal with people (personalities, more questions, more meetings, more phone calls, etc) for $75/return. Or I can do with less of all of that for a more money and still make the same money overall. Which one makes more sense? >>
Both trains get there at the same time.
There is no way they are paying $4. They wouldn't be subbing cards like this.
Using 4 SC for cards from cheaper sets is better then subbing yourself in many cases because if the card comes in lower then you want you have just lost money.