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NEWP!

So, this is the first time I get to post a coin the day it arrived, since I am not totally photo-illiterate anymore.

I had to wait on this to come from Spain from a favorite seller of mine. I'm pretty happy with it and will add more information about it to this post after I have slept and can think in things that are not animated doodles like I am right now.

My photography is not the best, I know, and this piece is much more attractive in hand than my crapola photos give it credit for. This is a significant purchase for me in that it both fills a very large Caligula sized hole in my 12 Caesars Set and also was one of the few coins I have spent over a $100 on. I typically don't allow myself that much per coin, but some good ebay sales let me splurge at an opportune time.

Also, check out some unfiled pics of some great coins for my daughter that a friend sent to me for her birthday as a surprise! She was super pumped to get them. I've also added many more Romans but they are still in the process of being edited and appropriately labeled which is always more work than I think it will be.

Caligula Obverse

Caligula Reverse

Edited to correct broken links.

Comments

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey, sandy patina- I like that look on ancient bronze!

    I have recently been warned that it can be easily faked, and used to hide problems or tooling, but so far I haven't had any issues with that, and I see no obvious reason to suspect that on your coin. It looks pretty nice to me.

    Congrats on getting a toughie outta the way!

    The tiny circles on Vesta's chair on the reverse are unusual, at least to my eyes. I've not seen one with that style of chair/throne before, or wasn't paying attention to that particular detail if I did.

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  • bronzematbronzemat Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Coin looks to be OK to me too but sometimes sandy patinas are applied to fakes also.

    Hard to break the $100 barrier, wait till you go after otho, even I dont have him yet. He's all I need too.
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭
    If you don't already, you may want to monitor this site to be sure you avoid fakes and bad sellers. There's both a known fake list (glancing thru I didn't see your piece in it) as well as a bad seller (primarily ebay) list. link

    Lord M is right about the "desert patina" and a number of ebay sellers in Spain (as well as the balkans) are known to peddle fakes on ebay. Both red flags to me, but there are good sellers too so as long as you know your seller and do reasonable due diligence you're probably fine.

    Congrats on the addition to your set.



    image
    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • nicholasz219nicholasz219 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    LordM, you really make my head spin sometimes. I saw this message as I was falling asleep for the day and was like "Uh oh."

    But, after comparing the coin to the wildwinds example of RIC 38, I see what you mean about the throne. I had wondered the same thing, but then I figured from the placement of the SC on the coin that possibly the engraver was not as skilled or it was a subtype.

    STLNATS and Bronzemat, I appreciate your thoughts and encouragement. I really have been enjoying buying and attributing my ancients even though I am not the best at it yet. I appreciate the warning about patinas being used to hide obvious defects or counterfeits and that is a helpful warning to bear in mind. I do check the Forum as well as here and had not seen any warnings about the seller or the coin type. I am glad that the group of you sees no problems with it and in hand it looks and feels genuine.

    The seller, lucernae, has sold me many lower ($10-20) coins in the past that I haven't detected any problems with, which is why I felt comfortable with a larger purchase from him. After my mini mental freak out at seeing these messages, I searched his name in Forum and all positives from what I can see from a variety of collectors, plus 24K positive feedback on the bay, so that is encouraging.

    Thank you for the compliments and the help. I really enjoy your virtual company in my collecting and your knowledge base.
  • Nice example! Thanks for sharing image

    I too like that unusual pattern on the throne that is really popping out with the sandy patina, good stuff

    isn't the 12 caesars a fun set image

    btw I initially clicked the obverse and then just hit next and went wow what provincial caligula is this that I've never seen image
    =Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award 4/28/2014=
  • nicholasz219nicholasz219 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    NiceCurrency: Yes, I am really enjoying the 12 Caesars set. I haven't created a folder for it yet, because well, I am lazier than I wish I was. But eventually, there will be a folder in my photobucket of 12 Caesars, hopefully before I complete the set. I really like to have the challenge of finding coins on my budget to fit the set, so Provincials are included in some cases and other times are not needed.

    Bronzemat, I know I have Otho constantly on my radar, but he and Vitellius will probably both be saved for towards the end since I have not seen many if any coins that were under $200 per coin for decent examples. It helps to use Provincials to scratch the itch for an addition at relatively low cost or to improve on a current piece. But I really enjoy the set and my overall goal of one per Emperor. It keeps me busy and learning and I like both of those things.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From all I know, Lucernae is one of the "good guys" on eBay, I think. A well established seller of ancients on eBay, and not a fly-by-night.

    To the best of my knowledge. I haven't dealt with them personally because 95% of my ancient coin purchases have been from VCoins dealers rather than eBay.

    But not everybody on eBay is ignorant or dishonest, obviously.

    Your coin looks fine to me. I just had never noticed the little circles before, is all. None of my Caligula VESTAs have had that.

    Keep at it with the emperor collection. I think the set I put together in 2007-08, when I was doing an emperor portrait set, was the most fun I've had with ancients.

    Now I'm back to being a novice again, this time with Greek coins. Will they teach me as much and give me as much fun as the Roman coins did? That remains to be seen.

    image

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  • nicholasz219nicholasz219 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    NiceCurrency: Yes, that is a bit of a non sequitur. Gallenius zoo reverse paired with a Caligula obverse. I am sure we shall see some fake mule like that at some point.

    LM, yes, I think Lucernae is a pretty solid guy/business. I have had nothing but pleasant dealings with him and from about 20 coin purchases, I have never had a reason to doubt his legitimacy. When he threw up the Caligula with a Best Offer option, we talked and I committed. I also happen to like getting mail from Spain. I have never outgrown that feeling of excitement/importance of receiving "real" mail with fancy coins in it from when I was a kid.

    I have been dabbling in a few odds and ends in Greek colonies and Seleucids and things of that nature. I still haven't found a Parthian that I wanted badly enough to commit with the exception of an example that Josh had and I had seriously run out of money for after CICF. There are two things that I would like to see when it comes to both things I just mentioned:

    1) A basic history of the Greeks, not 2000 pages long that I could read or refer to when looking at names/coins. I get how the Empire expanded and contracted, split, etc., but I don't know the geography that well enough to really put the places and how they refer to one another in my mind to have a complete picture of the landscape and relative positions geographically in my brain. This proves problematic when referring to cities, city-states or regions. I haven't traveled in that part of the world, so I really can't rely on experiential knowledge like I can when referring to the states here in the US.

    2) An interactive map that would overlay ancient names on top of modern ones along with Empire affiliations. I wish I had the computer programming skills to create this, because I would totally keep this idea to myself and develop it on my own. But I'm relatively educated well, smart enough to use a map and familiar enough with enough kingdoms, empires and cities to work my way around. But understanding the name changes over thousands of years without an advanced degree in Greek history can be daunting. Having an interactive map would allow you to type in the city or regional name and it could highlight and offer other names or affiliations. A click or two and linkage to Wildwinds' appropriate pages for coins of that kingdom or province would be super awesome and a fun way to contextualize coin collecting with a better synthesized understanding of how these places fit together. It's like regions in Europe like "Pomerania" "Moldova" and "Rhineland." To some of US folks, since we don't know European history and geography as well as the natives, we are very confused. Don't get me started on the countries of Africa.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have never outgrown that feeling of excitement/importance of receiving "real" mail with fancy coins in it from when I was a kid. >>

    That was the best, wasn't it? I still remember saving my money up in 1977 to buy an 1866 Shield nickel (dark, but a CircCam!) for five bucks, and a VG 1858-LL Flying Eagle cent for seven bucks, and watching the mailbox, eagerly anticipating their arrival. And then there were the days in the early 1990s when I used to do a lot of pen-pal swapping with Sam Petry (now the revered "Cladking" on these boards). Sam not only sent me some great coins, but he always sent letters written in block print on graph paper, for some reason. And used all sorts of cool stamps for postage on the packages- commemorative stamps from as far back as the 1940s. Those were always fun packages to get.

    I don't know the geography of all the Greek regions and city states, either. I am hoping that the coins will teach me most of that. I'm much better about reading up on the history behind a coin when I've actually got the coin in my possession, for some reason. Then it seems more fun and less academic, somehow.


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  • bronzematbronzemat Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have never once bought from Lucernae. I have seen his auctions many times and I know some coins go cheap. I have bought from other dealers from spain and had no issues, unlike germany. NY customs seems to have issues with keeping packages from there forever Lost alot of good coins that way.

    As for Vitellius/Otho, I got my Vitellius for under $80. Was patience but worth it. Otho I am awaiting one to surface for $400 or less. I know they exist, just time.

    Also Lucernae has a Vcoins store, opened early last year.


  • << <i>I'm much better about reading up on the history behind a coin when I've actually got the coin in my possession, for some reason. Then it seems more fun and less academic, somehow. >>



    totally agree, this is kind of why I bought some misc group lots to resell, it's been a lot of fun identifying and searching out every spec of information to be had about this particular coin, those two slabbed coins I bought at that show that was by my apartment? I knew nothing of them, I saw them, went back home and researched a price, came back ,haggled and bought them and then over the next couple days read all about them in my free time and now know have committed to memory a bit about those particular types and locations
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  • nicholasz219nicholasz219 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    I am always curious about the miscellaneous Roman groups that I see for sale on the bay. I have not pulled the trigger out of fear of not being able to identify anything (resulting in an instant relisting of said lot) or it being all garbage. But I really want to take the plunge. Recommendations on sellers via PM are welcome.

    I agree with Nice and LM in that I do find it less boring to read up on a coinage or area when you have at least one piece to tie you to that area mentally. It is like when I buy used books too. If it is something I am already interested in or have some sort of personal tie to (History of Chicago or its environs, for example, always means a purchase by me, pretty much), that book will find its way home with me, where it belongs. Digging through boxes of romance novels to find one solid history or biography book makes the reward so much sweeter.

    I became friends with Steven Taylor, who was past president of the ANA at the 100th anniversary convention in Chicago in 1991. We became great pen pals and friends and he sent me notes from all over the world for my foreign currency collection. He also sent the older stamps as postage and many colorful (admittedly cheaper usually) world notes inside. I have many still in my paper collection. We lost track of each other when I went off to college and I found out he died around 2002 I think. It's a shame because he was a good man and friend.

    Bronzemat, yes Lucernae runs many online auctions and I think on average has at least 500 coins listed at any given time on the bay. I have seen his store on VCoins but have not purchased anything out of there because he has it all priced in Euros because I think that site is his way of tailoring selling to his European customers. Roughly half of his bay listings are in Euros as well. But I have enjoyed buying from him, he's polite, considerate, willing to work with you and has nice stuff.
  • SYRACUSIANSYRACUSIAN Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭✭
    Nick, it seems that you moved or deleted the images, or at least this is the message I get from photobucket.

    It's very easy to post photobucket images. All you do is copy their "direct link" second from the top in a list of four (at the right of the image), and post it here by using the image box at your post.
    Dimitri



    myEbay



    DPOTD 3
  • nicholasz219nicholasz219 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    Dimitri, thanks for noticing the broken links. In my enthusiasm to share my coin with you all, I just took pictures and attached links to them in my OP. Then after I got busy actually adding information and putting them into the appropriate Emperor folder, the links broke. So now they are corrected and appropriately labeled.

    Thanks for reading and catching that so you and others may see.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man, the circles on that throne are just a trip. Ever see a lowrider car where the guy has one of those steering wheels made out of welded chain links?

    Vesta's throne here looks like it is similarly constructed. I have owned three Caligula VESTA AEs, now, and looked at dozens if not hundreds of others, and never noticed this variant before.

    The sandy patina really makes 'em pop out at you, too.

    Neat.

    Whoops. I keep going on about the circles, don't I? image

    That's what happens when I go away from a thread, come back to look again, and forget everything I previously posted. image

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  • nicholasz219nicholasz219 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    Yes, it still is an attention getter when you see those circles. But since it is from Lucernae and I can not see anything wrong with it, I am going with a variant as an explanation. But yes, I am very pleased with the coin and patina in general and am very happy to add it to the 12 Caesars set.
  • bronzematbronzemat Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was wadding through old CNG sales and found one like the chair here

    Maybe from the same die? Dunno due to the pics being dark.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, I wasn't suggesting there's anything wrong with the circles. Far from it. I think they're neat looking.

    (As evidenced by my excessive, repeated noticing of them. Haha.) image

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