A question about Spink English coin prices and dealer prices.

BillJones

I have started to collection some English coins. I have a copy of the 2014 Spink Coins of England, I've been comparing the prices in that guide with the prices dealers ask for English coins here.

I know that the Spink prices are in pounds so I've been multiplying the prices there by 1.66 to convert them to dollars. Even when I do that the dealer prices are always higher. Is this normal, or am I just being cheap?

I also have been led to believe that English grading is much more conservative that U.S. grading. Their VF is our EF and their EF is our AU. That makes the higher prices even more of a concern.

Perhaps you guys might weigh in and solve some of my confusion.

Thanks.

Nap

I would say the Spink book is somewhat similar to the Red Book for US coins. Accurate to some degree, gives you a general idea, helps with identifying types, but not what you would use to guide every purchase.

When you speak of English coins, you are also talking about some 1500 years of coin production. So you may want to be more specific about which era of English coins you are researching. A good source for current prices is to check the major auction houses: Heritage, CNG, Dix Noonan Webb, Davissons, St. James, etc. A quick search of vcoins.com can give you an idea of going retail rates for certain issues.

Grading is somewhat different, especially for older hammered issues where true uncirculated coins are unknown, and there is less emphasis on numeric grade.

Nice to see another American falling to the dark side. Also, since you are a scholar as well as a gentleman, you'll be pleased to know that there is a tremendous wealth of over a hundred years of scholarship in the (free!) digitized British Numismatic Journal for when you are ready to study a series in depth.

coinkat

It depends largely on the coin and condition. Some monarchs remain hot while others for some reason have not caught on. And of course, hammered coinage is is a different arena with several current hot spots.

There still is significant opportunities with British coins in part because of how coins from earlier Monarchs are collected. An equally significant part is that there are real rarities and even condition rarities which seem to attract minimal interest. Other coins which really surface frequently such as the Cromwell Crown and even the Victorian Gothic Crown seem to always attract a barnstorm of activity leading to some interesting prices at auction.

My advice is buy overlooked rarity that is quality for a grade even though that view of quality will likely be in dispute on one side of the pond. That is sort of the way it is and I do not see that changing.

EVillageProwler

<< <i>Grading is somewhat different, especially for older hammered issues where true uncirculated coins are unknown, and there is less emphasis on numeric grade. >>



Truer words have never been written...

For the Anglo-Saxon, Norman and I suppose early Plantagenet material, their grading is in large part based on planchet and strike quality. For example, is it very porous, and are the details sharp and well-centered? Un-chipped or un-cracked? They do care about patination and crustiness, which usually equates to eye appeal.

For Americans, we tend to focus too much on hairlines and minor hits in "focal" areas. And, there are too many US collectors who think a bright white CBQ makes as much sense as a bright white Washie.

Their pricing is driven by their own areas of concern, and for US dealers their pricing may be based off an extension of PCGS or NGC standards -- and the two standards don't map together neatly. However, I have found that this British to US grading translation fits most of the time:

[British] --> [US]
Good/Choice/Superb EF --> MS62 to MS65
EF --> AU55 to MS63
VF --> EF40 to AU55

The British system also uses "good" and "near", as in VF/gVF/nEF/EF/gEF, so adjust accordingly.

I collect Anglo-Saxon, and I try to limit my purchases to a minimum quality fitting British nEF *and* US AU55, but I usually buy raw (and leave 'em that way!). I have a few exceptions to my minimum British grade rule, because those pieces were simply much quality than typically seen: an Offa "light" penny in gVF that has killer eye appeal and much less porosity than usual; and a Harold I penny in gVF that has excellent cabinet toning and far above-average strike and surface quality.

Welcome to the dark side.

EVP

PS The Spink book has a section about pricing vs grading. I think it's in the beginning.

Bjorn

Just to add what the others have said regarding British grading - I've seen high AU and low unc coins (55 - 61) in US standards graded as EF or Good EF by British dealers. Spink is a bit high on British coins, but at about the same mark up as the Red Book is for US coins. I have even seen some lower AU coins (AU 50) graded as VF. A word of warning though - some British dealers will grade US coins by US standards - so while a reputable dealer will grade an AU 58 British coin as perhaps EF, that same dealer may grade a US MS 60 as EF or as Unc (although he or she will do so consistently). Also, just like in the US market, you have some dealers who overgrade.