I submitted 29 coins to PCGS last year as my first grading submission. I received a plus on 1 of the 29 coins. I thought the coin warranted a PF67 grade. PSCG gave it a PF66+ grade.
I have my second submission of coins to PCGS currently being graded (over 200 coins). I would think that some of them will receive a + grade. Time will tell.
My thoughts in general about + grades and giving a coin a * are:
For most persons things that remain "static" become stale and boring. Humans like change and new things (perhaps based upon the psychology of the thought that young and new are "better" and that individuals and society are best served when they/it "progress forward" (many times to what is thought to be a glorious future that in reality turns out to be a lousy future).
Businesses depend on repeat business to stay alive and profitable. Thus business must convince its customers that the product or service the business provides is something that the customer must "need" (to survive, like food or water) or "want" (like a new car or a new Top Pop Coin). For TPGs, if all coins worthy of being slabbed (however you define "worthy") have been slabbed then submissions will drop off and the only coins being graded are newly minted coins produced by the Mint. Revenue will decline. Not good for the TPGs. Thus the need for something to create additional demand for grading services. Changing the hobby structure from 1-70 grading to 1-100 grading is one option (with many possible consequences, some bad such as persons leaving the hobby all together). That has not happened (yet) and instead the hobby has implemented + grading, the awarding of a * and other things. No doubt this has changed the hobby, both the business side and the collecting side, by introducing additional levels of classification. The 1-70 scale is no longer something that gives only 30 possible grading numbers to apply to a coin [1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 53, 55, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66 ,67, 68, 69 and 70]. Now you can have PCGS assign a + to coins graded 45, 50, 53, 55, 58, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67 and 68. NGC assigns a * to some coins. Add in additional descriptors (BN, RB, RD, CAM, DCAM, UCAM, FH, FS, FBL, FT, PL, DMPL, etc,) and/or CAC and the levels of possible classification of a coin expands explosively (especially if multiple descriptors can be applied to a single coin, such as 1901 1 Cent PF68+ RB DCAM Gold CAC).
The hobby of kings provides all of its participants the opportunity to "compete" against others (or even themselves) to determine who is "the best". As knowledge, education and information grows (and with modern communications these things grow at a speed that is astonishing) the ability of anyone to compete becomes very easy. Anyone can access information from the comfort of their home and assemble a top flight collection of a coins that interest them (in the portion of the hobby pool that they play in). With the ability to easily compete, those who choose to do so increases. Being able to split hairs (with multiple additional levels of classification) about sought after coins allows those who compete a greater opportunity to be able to "stand out" from others. The ability to "stand out" can give one satisfaction that springs from different sources (including recognition from others you compete with; and self recognition that comes from doing your absolute best and accomplishing something that you set as a goal).
For me, I have recently started submitting coins for grading and participating in the Set Registry. It has been interesting thus far and it has increased my enjoyment of the hobby. If (when) I receive newly submitted coins that are assigned + grades, so be it. I will enjoy these coins while I own them.
@fathom said:
Lots of variables depending on series, coin, condition, popularity etc. to make a general statement IMO.
If I had to make a general statement right now about + coins I would say they continue to sell at a premium because there are too many buyers chasing too few choice coins.
I think plus coins sell at a premium because in general their eye appeal is nicer than many others with the same grade. Coins aren't perfect commodities, where every coin in a particular grade is expected to sell at the same exact price. Coins with better eye appeal within a grade SHOULD sell for more, and ugly coins should sell for less. Eye appeal is subjective, so if someone disagrees with a higher price for a supposedly nicer coin, just pass. If someone really likes a coin that many others feel is ugly, enjoy the bargain price you may likely get!
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@winesteven said:
As @Catbert mentioned shortly above as he resurrected this post from eight years ago, my collection consists of a relatively very high percentage of coins with plus grades. In no particular order, here are some comments/thoughts:
Without me taking the time now to look through my various sets, I estimate that roughly 50% or more of my coins eligible for a plus have a plus. I recall that several of my sets have over 60% of the eligible coins with pluses.
I would guess that slightly more than half of my coins with pluses were purchased with the plus, and slightly less than half obtained the plus via Reconsideration.
As a generalization, of the coins I purchased with a plus, the pricing differential over the lower whole grade number was “reasonable”, and MUCH less than half of the price difference between the lower number whole grade and the next higher whole grade.
Every one of my coins with a plus has a CAC. Not every one of my coins with a CAC has a plus. Every one of my coins eligible for a CAC has a CAC.
WHY do I submit my nicest eye-appealing coins for Reconsideration? For me, extra Registry points is only a secondary factor. The main reason I do that is the same reason many collectors and dealers submit their nicest coins to CAC - to avoid leaving money on the table! Some say, “Well, when the time comes to sell, the nicer coins will bring strong money even without a CAC!”. While right or wrong, I believe having the CAC on a coin, with or without a plus, will indeed bring more money when sold by me (or my heirs) via auction than the same coin without a CAC. The bottom line on this point - selling a coin that merits a plus grade but doesn’t have the plus is leaving money on the table!
As noted just a few replies above mine, the PCGS website apparently says that the top 30% of the coins in a grade merit a plus. While perhaps in theory that’s true, I believe from looking at pops that PCGS hands out a lower percentage of coins with plus grades, whether upon initial grading or including Reconsideration. With that said, I acknowledge, as proven by the comments of others above, many collectors choose to not submit their best eye appealing coins for Reconsideration, so that is at least a partial explanation for the lower percentage of plus coins in the pop reports.
If you look at the data that PCGS provides, they assign plus grades to roughly 2% of the coins graded, whether for the most recent 30 days or one year. However, most of the coins they grade are modern coins, and as we know, coins graded 69 or 70 are ineligible for a plus (as are Classic coins below XF45). Without knowing the numbers of those graded with grades ineligible for the plus, meaningful conclusions cannot be reached from that data.
Feel free to click on the hotlink in my signature below to see my Dansco 7070 with Gold - 69 coins are eligible for a plus, and 44 of those 69 have the plus (63%).
Steve
Steven could it be that the lower amount of plus coins be simply due to exceptional coins being skipped for a plus grade and being bumped up to the next grade level as a C coin?
@winesteven said:
As @Catbert mentioned shortly above as he resurrected this post from eight years ago, my collection consists of a relatively very high percentage of coins with plus grades. In no particular order, here are some comments/thoughts:
Without me taking the time now to look through my various sets, I estimate that roughly 50% or more of my coins eligible for a plus have a plus. I recall that several of my sets have over 60% of the eligible coins with pluses.
I would guess that slightly more than half of my coins with pluses were purchased with the plus, and slightly less than half obtained the plus via Reconsideration.
As a generalization, of the coins I purchased with a plus, the pricing differential over the lower whole grade number was “reasonable”, and MUCH less than half of the price difference between the lower number whole grade and the next higher whole grade.
Every one of my coins with a plus has a CAC. Not every one of my coins with a CAC has a plus. Every one of my coins eligible for a CAC has a CAC.
WHY do I submit my nicest eye-appealing coins for Reconsideration? For me, extra Registry points is only a secondary factor. The main reason I do that is the same reason many collectors and dealers submit their nicest coins to CAC - to avoid leaving money on the table! Some say, “Well, when the time comes to sell, the nicer coins will bring strong money even without a CAC!”. While right or wrong, I believe having the CAC on a coin, with or without a plus, will indeed bring more money when sold by me (or my heirs) via auction than the same coin without a CAC. The bottom line on this point - selling a coin that merits a plus grade but doesn’t have the plus is leaving money on the table!
As noted just a few replies above mine, the PCGS website apparently says that the top 30% of the coins in a grade merit a plus. While perhaps in theory that’s true, I believe from looking at pops that PCGS hands out a lower percentage of coins with plus grades, whether upon initial grading or including Reconsideration. With that said, I acknowledge, as proven by the comments of others above, many collectors choose to not submit their best eye appealing coins for Reconsideration, so that is at least a partial explanation for the lower percentage of plus coins in the pop reports.
If you look at the data that PCGS provides, they assign plus grades to roughly 2% of the coins graded, whether for the most recent 30 days or one year. However, most of the coins they grade are modern coins, and as we know, coins graded 69 or 70 are ineligible for a plus (as are Classic coins below XF45). Without knowing the numbers of those graded with grades ineligible for the plus, meaningful conclusions cannot be reached from that data.
Feel free to click on the hotlink in my signature below to see my Dansco 7070 with Gold - 69 coins are eligible for a plus, and 44 of those 69 have the plus (63%).
Steve
Steven could it also be that the lower amount of plus coins be simply due to exceptional coins being skipped for a plus grade and being bumped up to the next grade level as a C coin? I also think most plus coins come only through reconsideration rather than the graders thinking originally plus when first submitted
Joey, while there’s no way to tell for sure, I highly doubt the reason for fewer plus grades assigned on initial grading is due to many of those coins getting bumped up initially to the next higher grade. I believe this since it seems for quite some time now the TPG’s have tightened things up. Sure, there are plenty of exceptions, and separately, there will always be “C” coins (as there should be, by definition). “C” coins are NOT overgraded coins, but mostly are properly graded coins in the lower third of coins properly in that grade!
Only PCGS has the data on knowing the breakdown of where plus coins come from - from raw coins being originally graded, or via Reconsideration or Regrade (while the graders see Regrades as raw, PCGS knows the prior grade).
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Plus grading is nonsense. No way you can narrow grades down to that level of granularity without using a computer to grade coins. Sure is great as a conversation starter though
@Joey29 said:
Best combination is a CAC sticker with a plus grade. Doesn’t get much better even though this type of coin may not sell much in excess of the plus price.
I would contend ( for collectors), the incremental decimal points in be"tween", would have been better than plus signs and stickers, as it were.
But, that's my lowly opinion of everything except the coin.
It's all about the money, anyway. I subscribe to my initial post.
Comments
My answer to all 4 questions: Meh!
Tom
I submitted 29 coins to PCGS last year as my first grading submission. I received a plus on 1 of the 29 coins. I thought the coin warranted a PF67 grade. PSCG gave it a PF66+ grade.
I have my second submission of coins to PCGS currently being graded (over 200 coins). I would think that some of them will receive a + grade. Time will tell.
My thoughts in general about + grades and giving a coin a * are:
For most persons things that remain "static" become stale and boring. Humans like change and new things (perhaps based upon the psychology of the thought that young and new are "better" and that individuals and society are best served when they/it "progress forward" (many times to what is thought to be a glorious future that in reality turns out to be a lousy future).
Businesses depend on repeat business to stay alive and profitable. Thus business must convince its customers that the product or service the business provides is something that the customer must "need" (to survive, like food or water) or "want" (like a new car or a new Top Pop Coin). For TPGs, if all coins worthy of being slabbed (however you define "worthy") have been slabbed then submissions will drop off and the only coins being graded are newly minted coins produced by the Mint. Revenue will decline. Not good for the TPGs. Thus the need for something to create additional demand for grading services. Changing the hobby structure from 1-70 grading to 1-100 grading is one option (with many possible consequences, some bad such as persons leaving the hobby all together). That has not happened (yet) and instead the hobby has implemented + grading, the awarding of a * and other things. No doubt this has changed the hobby, both the business side and the collecting side, by introducing additional levels of classification. The 1-70 scale is no longer something that gives only 30 possible grading numbers to apply to a coin [1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 53, 55, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66 ,67, 68, 69 and 70]. Now you can have PCGS assign a + to coins graded 45, 50, 53, 55, 58, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67 and 68. NGC assigns a * to some coins. Add in additional descriptors (BN, RB, RD, CAM, DCAM, UCAM, FH, FS, FBL, FT, PL, DMPL, etc,) and/or CAC and the levels of possible classification of a coin expands explosively (especially if multiple descriptors can be applied to a single coin, such as 1901 1 Cent PF68+ RB DCAM Gold CAC).
The hobby of kings provides all of its participants the opportunity to "compete" against others (or even themselves) to determine who is "the best". As knowledge, education and information grows (and with modern communications these things grow at a speed that is astonishing) the ability of anyone to compete becomes very easy. Anyone can access information from the comfort of their home and assemble a top flight collection of a coins that interest them (in the portion of the hobby pool that they play in). With the ability to easily compete, those who choose to do so increases. Being able to split hairs (with multiple additional levels of classification) about sought after coins allows those who compete a greater opportunity to be able to "stand out" from others. The ability to "stand out" can give one satisfaction that springs from different sources (including recognition from others you compete with; and self recognition that comes from doing your absolute best and accomplishing something that you set as a goal).
For me, I have recently started submitting coins for grading and participating in the Set Registry. It has been interesting thus far and it has increased my enjoyment of the hobby. If (when) I receive newly submitted coins that are assigned + grades, so be it. I will enjoy these coins while I own them.
I'm under the impression in the past that coins with much nicer eye appeal for a grade went for higher pricing, unless I was being taken advantage of?
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I think plus coins sell at a premium because in general their eye appeal is nicer than many others with the same grade. Coins aren't perfect commodities, where every coin in a particular grade is expected to sell at the same exact price. Coins with better eye appeal within a grade SHOULD sell for more, and ugly coins should sell for less. Eye appeal is subjective, so if someone disagrees with a higher price for a supposedly nicer coin, just pass. If someone really likes a coin that many others feel is ugly, enjoy the bargain price you may likely get!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Steven could it be that the lower amount of plus coins be simply due to exceptional coins being skipped for a plus grade and being bumped up to the next grade level as a C coin?
Joey, while there’s no way to tell for sure, I highly doubt the reason for fewer plus grades assigned on initial grading is due to many of those coins getting bumped up initially to the next higher grade. I believe this since it seems for quite some time now the TPG’s have tightened things up. Sure, there are plenty of exceptions, and separately, there will always be “C” coins (as there should be, by definition). “C” coins are NOT overgraded coins, but mostly are properly graded coins in the lower third of coins properly in that grade!
Only PCGS has the data on knowing the breakdown of where plus coins come from - from raw coins being originally graded, or via Reconsideration or Regrade (while the graders see Regrades as raw, PCGS knows the prior grade).
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Plus grading is nonsense. No way you can narrow grades down to that level of granularity without using a computer to grade coins. Sure is great as a conversation starter though
Another brilliant marketing scheme. I hope whoever came up with it was amply rewarded.
I would contend ( for collectors), the incremental decimal points in be"tween", would have been better than plus signs and stickers, as it were.
But, that's my lowly opinion of everything except the coin.
It's all about the money, anyway. I subscribe to my initial post.
If you accept the proposition that not all coins are equal within a grade, then the + designation serves a significant purpose.
MS66+
1937 Swiss 5 Fr most recent + from our host
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