GREAT NEWS - BBCE WILL WORK WITH US ON BOARD BID BREAK!! - First Post Edited with Details - WE ARE A
70ToppsFanatic
Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭✭
As per the edited thread header, I spoke with Steve and he is willing to work with us on a collective board bid
to break the unopened items available in the Memory Lane auction.
BBCE will charge a 5% premium on top of the total costs we incur + any costs (e.g. shipping, fees associated
with payment, etc.). Any authentication sevices or addiitonal product purchases from BBCE would be over and
above the "bid break" costs.
We can have product shipped directly to BBCE. Steve will collect payments, distribute and ship. It can basically run
just like a regular group rip with the following two caveats:
1) Steve will not be the original source of the product being offered
2) We will need to pay MLI for anything we win and Steve will reimburse us after collecting payments (depending on
how successful we are I might need to work out something on how we handle this, but its a relatively minor issue)
So, basically we are good to go! I will get the subscription thread together and get it posted as per the plan.
Good luck to us all on this endeavor!
ORIGINAL 1ST MESSAGE BELOW
I got a crazy idea that the board community might band together to pursue the 1979 rack case that is coming up
for auction at ML. I know its a bit of a longshot (as there will probably be heavy interest in a sealed rack case
well beyond just us), but who's up for trying to win it together and then breaking it here?
I'm reasonably sure we could easily come up with a way to randomly distribute the racks amongst those that
participate.
It's a 6-box case (24 racks per box), so we'd have 144 racks to split. I'd suggest doing a small concensus-oriented
conf call between a few well-respected members here (grote, cpamike, etc.) to come up with a per rack bid amount
(so that we don't broadcast it in the thread).
For the purposes of information, recent sales of individual 1979 racks on Ebay show pricing in the range of about $80-$110.
Also, Rick Probstein sold a full box for $1881 (about $78/rack).
Then we would all sign-up like a normal group rip across 144 slots (normal sign up limits would apply). If we filled all
the slots then the bid would be submitted and we'd see what happens.
Please respond to this thread if you have interest. Also, if there is interest in any of the other unopened items being offered
(e.g. the 77 vending case, 75 mini boxes, etc.) in the auction we could also consider a similar approach on them. FOR THE
MOMENT JUST SAY WHICH ITEM(s) YOU WOULD WANT SOME PACKS FROM BUT DON'T SAY HOW MANY. If we have enough
interest a separate thread will be started where we can deal with the specifics.
With the supply being limited, we need to get a bit creative in how we secure material for group breaks. This is just an
idea for the moment, but I think we could seriously pull it off if the interest is here.
to break the unopened items available in the Memory Lane auction.
BBCE will charge a 5% premium on top of the total costs we incur + any costs (e.g. shipping, fees associated
with payment, etc.). Any authentication sevices or addiitonal product purchases from BBCE would be over and
above the "bid break" costs.
We can have product shipped directly to BBCE. Steve will collect payments, distribute and ship. It can basically run
just like a regular group rip with the following two caveats:
1) Steve will not be the original source of the product being offered
2) We will need to pay MLI for anything we win and Steve will reimburse us after collecting payments (depending on
how successful we are I might need to work out something on how we handle this, but its a relatively minor issue)
So, basically we are good to go! I will get the subscription thread together and get it posted as per the plan.
Good luck to us all on this endeavor!
ORIGINAL 1ST MESSAGE BELOW
I got a crazy idea that the board community might band together to pursue the 1979 rack case that is coming up
for auction at ML. I know its a bit of a longshot (as there will probably be heavy interest in a sealed rack case
well beyond just us), but who's up for trying to win it together and then breaking it here?
I'm reasonably sure we could easily come up with a way to randomly distribute the racks amongst those that
participate.
It's a 6-box case (24 racks per box), so we'd have 144 racks to split. I'd suggest doing a small concensus-oriented
conf call between a few well-respected members here (grote, cpamike, etc.) to come up with a per rack bid amount
(so that we don't broadcast it in the thread).
For the purposes of information, recent sales of individual 1979 racks on Ebay show pricing in the range of about $80-$110.
Also, Rick Probstein sold a full box for $1881 (about $78/rack).
Then we would all sign-up like a normal group rip across 144 slots (normal sign up limits would apply). If we filled all
the slots then the bid would be submitted and we'd see what happens.
Please respond to this thread if you have interest. Also, if there is interest in any of the other unopened items being offered
(e.g. the 77 vending case, 75 mini boxes, etc.) in the auction we could also consider a similar approach on them. FOR THE
MOMENT JUST SAY WHICH ITEM(s) YOU WOULD WANT SOME PACKS FROM BUT DON'T SAY HOW MANY. If we have enough
interest a separate thread will be started where we can deal with the specifics.
With the supply being limited, we need to get a bit creative in how we secure material for group breaks. This is just an
idea for the moment, but I think we could seriously pull it off if the interest is here.
Dave
0
Comments
Just throwing that out there.... I wouldn't participate, but I like reading the group rip threads at times.
<< <i>The only negative I could see coming from this is the group would be exposing their hand, or their high bid. A competitive bidder on the lot would simply need to become aware of the thread with the per pack cost, do the math, and figure out how much it will take to outbid the group. If there was a way to still keep the group's bid a secret, then I could see it possibly succeeding. Still, a good idea overall.
Just throwing that out there.... I wouldn't participate, but I like reading the group rip threads at times. >>
That's why I suggested a small "bid committee" to determine the bid. It would not be publicly posted or disclosed. We'd all have to have confidence
in the members of that committee to pick a bid amount that was reasonable. I think we could easily come up with 3-5 forum members who we all
feel have such expertise and solid reputations.
And we could do this on any of the items being offered. It only takes about 30 "subscribers" 4-5 packs each to consume the case. I dont think we'd have
too much of an issue filling up the slots based on past group breaks.
Of course it would be great if we could just do something like this as we always have through BBCE, but given the limited supply of material in the market
we are going to have to expand our reach in order maximize the chance of enjoying more vintage breaks.
Dave
<< <i>Wow, there is some nice unopened stuff there. That's gotta be at least a 15k case...probably 20k >>
This is mostly Henry Moon's stash.
<< <i>The only negative I could see coming from this is the group would be exposing their hand, or their high bid. A competitive bidder on the lot would simply need to become aware of the thread with the per pack cost, do the math, and figure out how much it will take to outbid the group. If there was a way to still keep the group's bid a secret, then I could see it possibly succeeding. Still, a good idea overall.
Just throwing that out there.... I wouldn't participate, but I like reading the group rip threads at times. >>
One other negative, and it's absolutely not related to 70toppsfanatic's reputation, is the concern the racks aren't being divied up by a disinterested third party. After the Gary debacle, that motivated group rips to all go through BBCE. I might be interested in a rack or two but I just wonder how the logistics of pulling packs would work. If there's an ozzie rack showing, how would it be determined who gets it?
<< <i>
<< <i>The only negative I could see coming from this is the group would be exposing their hand, or their high bid. A competitive bidder on the lot would simply need to become aware of the thread with the per pack cost, do the math, and figure out how much it will take to outbid the group. If there was a way to still keep the group's bid a secret, then I could see it possibly succeeding. Still, a good idea overall.
Just throwing that out there.... I wouldn't participate, but I like reading the group rip threads at times. >>
One other negative, and it's absolutely not related to 70toppsfanatic's reputation, is the concern the racks aren't being divied up by a disinterested third party. After the Gary debacle, that motivated group rips to all go through BBCE. I might be interested in a rack or two but I just wonder how the logistics of pulling packs would work. If there's an ozzie rack showing, how would it be determined who gets it? >>
Based on past experience, I would 100% trust Dave or Mike to do this fairly and ethically. Knowing what I know about Dave, I don't think the value of an Ozzie pack is something he would sacrifice his integrity over. I think it's a solid idea and would be a fun way to get a rip going again.
Scott
1975 Topps Registry Set "Scott's 75 Topps Set"
First option
When we sign up for slots, each slot would correspond to a specific rack. For example, slots 1,25,49,73,97,121 correspond to the top rack on the left side of boxes 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 respectively. Slots 2,26,50,74,98,122 get the rack second from the top on the left side of boxes 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 respectively. Etc.
Then carve up gets done by having multiple trusted members meet up and do it together. Further we could webcast it for some added fun.
Second option
Similar to the first, but we do it together at National at the BBCE booth (webcast could also be done for this)
Third option
We have the case shipped directly to BBCE and have Steve follow the allocation scheme described above. This adds cost, as Steve should
Be compensated for his time.
It is not unreasonable to be concerned about fairness on this. However, lets not go overboard. There are plenty of ways to assure fairness. It would be a real shame if we lost another opportunity like this because of fears of an uneven playing field that we can certainly overcome.
And thanks to Dan for his kind words. I've tried to conduct myself here in a way that is beyond reproach. 100% transparency would be ideal, but it would certainly undermine the effort. For example, if we published the max bid in the thread then all competitors would potentially be able to find out and top us. That's why I suggested getting a small trusted group of board members together to decide and keep it within that small group until the auction ends.
Another suggestion that was sent to me was to have everyone PM their pack quantities and the price per pack they would be willing to pay. Then I would total the offered prices and that would be the bid. However, that means unequal price for everyone, and probably knocks us out of the running if too many people lowball it.
I have already heard from Several people via PM that they would be interested in either packs or boxes. My preference is to give as many people from our community a chance to participate as possible. It wouldn't be difficult to just get a smaller group and go after it, but it would be a heck of a lot more fun if we had lots of people sharing in the enjoyment. Remember a few years ago when the 75 rack box was broken and everything was gone before most people had a chance to get in to the deal?
Given the limited supply that has been available, I tried to get creative here for the benefit of everyone. Who's up for a vintage group rip?
Dave
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
<< <i>Thanks. Some good points and ideas presented. I agree there will be a challenge in determining the max bid price and ensuring everyone is willing to pay that amount. I'm sure people would step in and pick up the packs that go unpaid. Taking a mid-point between the high and low per pack offers could be a good max bid to set. >>
My preference would be to get a small group consisting of those here who seem to keep track of market pricing more so than others. Let a group of people we all trust guide the effort, and hope for the best.
I would nominate Tim (grote15), Mike (Cpamike), and Shane (1954) for starters. If they willing i think they have the kind of knowledge/expertise that we need to get involved. We just need to keep it relatively small so it can be effective. Add a handful more, sure. if we get much past 6 or 7 its going to get a bit difficult to come to a consensus. I am happy to be a part of that group (as I track the unopened market pretty carefully) but am happy to stay out of it and just submit the bid(s) that the group determines if there is any concern about any conflict of interest.
Do we limit to only the 79 rack case, or do we go after the whole shooting match (75 minis, 77 vending case, ... what else is of interest)?
Dave
option 1 or 3 works for me and the proposed committee sounds like the right group.
i also vote we go for a more than just the 79's. i'm on a real 77 bender lately - and the 76 and 75 and 78s...
please pencil me in.
77 Vending is intriguing too.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>Quite a "committee" there. This is going to end well, LOL! >>
If you have ideas of people from our community who are:
A) knowledgeable on the subject
Then by all means please suggest them.
As for how it will end, if we succeed then it will certainly end well. If we fail, they no one has lost anything and we can try
again if another opportunity arises. It certainly seems that by trying to band together and collectively become a bigger
"fish" we have a better chance of success than by most of us sitting it out and the rest chasing the items for themselves, no?
And if you see there are potential challenges to overcome, then please raise them constructively. It's really pretty amazing
what a community can achieve if they work together. You would be welcomed and appreciated for your contributions to
such an effort (even if something you brought up was the justification for deciding to ultimately abandon the idea).
Dave
Jmaciu's Collection
I think it's a great idea and would be willing to help/participate in any way that I can.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I like the idea and if it can be ironed out (and i think it can) i would be interested in participating.
Justin
Retired - Eddie Mathews Master Registry Set (96.36%) Rank 1
I'm not worried one bit about the honesty and integrity portion of the plan; coming strong enough to reel in the goods is ultimately what I'm most concerned about. As has been discussed in the other unopened thread, things are escalating to unprecedented levels. Now throw in some 70's chum of the sealed case variety and there's liable to be some sharks hitting it with a force never experienced before.
Thanks again for taking the lead, and I'm in for multiple racks if this comes to fruition.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
I'd love it someone did this for hockey...
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Great idea. As many have mentioned, this is what it's going to take to secure some legit unsearched stuff nowadays.
I have full confidence in you running this. For transparency purposes as you suggested, doing it live via a webcast site such as breakerstv.com would be a great idea. Plus if would give the group a chance to feel like they are they breaking the case open with you guys.
On that note, I would be in for a few 79 racks.
Doing a case break on video live would be awesome then posting it. Also, I agree if bbce could authenticate would be even greater. Either way I'm in.
I will approach Steve and see what he would charge us to take delivery and do the disbursement if we were fortunate enough to
be the high bidder on any of the items we are going to bid on. While it will mean some additional costs, it could greatly simplify
some of the potential issues while also offering the possibility of authentication and BBCE shrink-wrapping. I am assuming that
Steve will work with us on this, but I'd like to understand the full costs of his participation so that we do not go into this blindly.
And whether or not Steve is involved I will look into what it would take to webcast this live for all to enjoy.
In terms of choosing which items we would bid on, I am going to prepare a "break" sheet along the lines of what we have used for previous
breaks (it could very well be identical, but give me the weekend to think through any potential differences in this way of doing things
that could require any adjustments). My thoughts are to list all of the unopened items that are available, and as long as an item is fully
"subscribed" before a reasonable cut-off date then we will go after it. The items we will potentially be bidding on are as follows:
- a lot consisting of five (5) 1975 Topps baseball mini wax boxes
- a lot consisting of seven (7) 1976 Topps baseball vending boxes
- a lot consisting of one (1) 1977 Topps baseball sealed vending case (24 boxes)
- a lot consisting of eight (8) 1977 Topps baseball vending boxes
- a lot consisting of four (4) 1978 Topps baseball cello boxes (24 packs per box)
- a lot consisting of eight(8) 1979 Topps baseball vending boxes
- a lot consisting of one (1) 1979 Topps baseball sealed rack case (6 boxes of 24 racks each)
Probably the greatest difference in trying it this way is that the pricing will not be finalized until the auction is completed. We need to keep
the bid amounts within a small number of people until the auction ends to minimize the chance of any competitive bidders getting wind of them.
Therefore, if you are signing on for this you will be putting your trust in the expertise of the bid determination committee to decide what
"we" as a group will bid (that is reasonable for the items in question and relative to the current market). If you sign on, then you are agreeing
to abide by the unit prices that end up being derived based on our bid(s).
It is for that reason I nominated several people who are well known to many here, and are not so crazed that they would chase these items to unreasonable
price levels. I am very pleased to see that Tim (grote15) and Mike (cpamike) have indicated that they would be willing to participate in this critical activity. I
cannot think of two people who are both highly qualified and have the respect and trust of so many members of our community. I would also like to participate
in this task, as I track the market pretty closely (assuming no significant objections). I also nominated 1 additional member who is well known to many, though
we have not heard back from him yet. If anyone feels I may have missed someone (or if someone feels they would like to help in figuring out the bids) please
PM me. As I said earlier, we cant let this get too big, but there is certainly room for a couple of additional knowledgeable members.
This will NOT be the thread we use to request packs. It will be a separate thread, and I will target launching it on Tuesday 4/29 around 9PM
(so everyone knows well in advance). I am assuming we will use limits during the first 48 hours and second 48 hours like we have in the past. I
want to review exactly what is available (as we may need different limits on some items versus others).
There have been several expressions of interests for full rack boxes. As long as I have been around here I have made it no secret that I believe the idea is to try
to give everyone a chance to participate before allowing anyone to "pig out", so I do not plan on "reserving" a few full boxes beforehand. Instead, once we get
past a "to be determined" threshold time, if there are 24 or more racks left unspoken for we can open it up to box requests. No box request prior to that
threshold will be valid.
As I want to keep things completely in the open, I am one of those who has interest in a full rack box (if one were to be available). If we do have
full boxes available I do not expect that there will be many. Hence, I don't think it fair for me to expect the #1 box slot by default. Instead, I will
come up with a way that randomly assigns me a box slot based on one or more factors beyond my own control. That way everyone (including
myself) will have a shot at the few full boxes (if any) that would be available.
Anyone with any additional ideas is free to PM me and send them.
Dave
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Jeff
Card Country
Graded stars 1950's-1980
Jeff
Card Country
Graded stars 1950's-1980
And agree that something needs to be worked out with Steve to not only break the case,
but also collate/wrap the racks and possibly labeling them 'from a sealed case'
This would be a great opportunity to have loose racks labeled that way
Which brings up the time and effort it would require for him, not to mention the materials involved
Cost wise, what would this process end up adding too additionally?
Also, I am not sure if Steve will authenticate loose vending boxes not pulled from a case by his hands??
I could be wrong though in this situation......
<< <i>I would definitely like to participate too
And agree that something needs to be worked out with Steve to not only break the case,
but also collate/wrap the racks and possibly labeling them 'from a sealed case'
This would be a great opportunity to have loose racks labeled that way
Which brings up the time and effort it would require for him, not to mention the materials involved
Cost wise, what would this process end up adding too additionally?
Also, I am not sure if Steve will authenticate loose vending boxes not pulled from a case by his hands??
I could be wrong though in this situation...... >>
I am working on integrating Steve into this process. It simplifies many aspects of it. Give me a few
Days to connect with him and work it out and I'll get the details posted as soon as it is done.
Dave
<< <i>Now I could be wrong about this, but it is my impression that Steve has always had the requirement that vending boxes be from the case in order to be authenticated. I believe all vending boxes with Steve's wrapping, postcard etc were once from a sealed case, it's just that he has only recently in the last year or two added the words "from a sealed case" to his vending, but it was just as true without those words. >>
This is not accurate. I participated in a group rip a few years back and I got a 1983 Cello box. It was wrapped, but the box had the black X across the top indicating it was a return. I would say that unless it says "from a sealed case" there's no way to know if it was or not.
<< <i>
<< <i>Now I could be wrong about this, but it is my impression that Steve has always had the requirement that vending boxes be from the case in order to be authenticated. I believe all vending boxes with Steve's wrapping, postcard etc were once from a sealed case, it's just that he has only recently in the last year or two added the words "from a sealed case" to his vending, but it was just as true without those words. >>
This is not accurate. I participated in a group rip a few years back and I got a 1983 Cello box. It was wrapped, but the box had the black X across the top indicating it was a return. I would say that unless it says "from a sealed case" there's no way to know if it was or not. >>
I am referring to vending.
Kudos to Dave for looking to line this up.
I have nothing but trust and good things to say about Dave, as well as the others being mentioned to be part of the bidding committee.
Go get 'em boys! I am fired up to be part of this group rip.
dty
Tyler
Unopened Boxes, Packs, Cards, and Tickets
Just send me a PM or email me for discount off eBay pricing. Thanks
<< <i>I would definitely like to participate too
And agree that something needs to be worked out with Steve to not only break the case,
but also collate/wrap the racks and possibly labeling them 'from a sealed case'
This would be a great opportunity to have loose racks labeled that way
Which brings up the time and effort it would require for him, not to mention the materials involved
Cost wise, what would this process end up adding too additionally?
Also, I am not sure if Steve will authenticate loose vending boxes not pulled from a case by his hands??
I could be wrong though in this situation...... >>
I don't think we should expect Steve to actually put the work into this unless it becomes worthwhile to him monetarily. He does have his own business to run. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe he runs his own official authentication service. This reminds me of a service AFA runs where you send a sealed case and they authenticate, grade and slab the contents of each case as "from a sealed case". I believe it's a $10 per item fee and then likely $7 to $10 for shipping.