Pete Rose/Barry Bonds records

BLUEJAYWAY

Lately I've been reading here on this forum and in personal talks with other collectors about who "owns" the career hits record/career HRS record. All of the time the talk seems to center on all who believe that Aaron is truly the HR king. Citing Bonds perf. enhancing use as the reason for their belief that Aaron is the "true" leader. Now on the career " Hit King" side we have Rose the stat leader, but he too is guilty of an infraction-betting on his own team in baseball resulting in his lifetime banning from the game/HOF. With this logic in the case of Bonds it in never discussed/applied to the Rose record. If so Ty Cobb would be the preferred "Hit King" it would seem. Yet Cobb is never alluded to as such. One player labeled a perf. enhancing user but not judged worthy of the HR record. The other an acknowledged/admitted rule breaker and ruled by MLB as such. Yet Rose is never deemed unworthy of the "Hit King" designation. This is not to favor Bonds, is as much to judge both players on equal logic of their respective fall from grace. Your thoughts and reasons why one is judged differently than the other?

esquiresports

What Bonds did aided (at least arguably) his home run total. What Rose did did not aid his hit total. Not comparable in my opinion.

Stingray

<< <i>What Bonds did aided (at least arguably) his home run total. What Rose did did not aid his hit total. Not comparable in my opinion. >>



+1

fiveniner

<< <i>What Bonds did aided (at least arguably) his home run total. What Rose did did not aid his hit total. Not comparable in my opinion. >>




I fully agree

QUITCRAB

Correct. Betting on baseball doesn't help you get hits.

gonzer

Rose was a gambler and Bonds is a cheat. Apples and oranges.

miwlvrn

Aside from all the discussion about Pete Rose deserving induction, when will it finally be time to let Shoeless Joe into the Hall?

Dboneesq

<< <i>What Bonds did aided (at least arguably) his home run total. What Rose did did not aid his hit total. Not comparable in my opinion. >>


I agree 100%.

LarkinCollector

I agree with others, the PED infraction on a 'power' stat vs. gambling infraction that has no relation to hitting explains a lot in how they're viewed. Personally, I don't think either one did anything wrong, MLB didn't care about PEDs when Bonds was using and it's not like Rose was ever trying to throw a game when his bets were all for the team he was managing to win. If Bonds were more personable, I don't think he would be viewed so harshly, but I haven't heard anyone ever say what a nice/great guy he is/was.

orioles93

I hope someone else comes along and passes both bonds and aaron so we can stop talking about who the real homerun king is.

Mick65

Just a Rant..... (And random food for thought, not an expert on PEDs by any stretch)

The commissioner didn’t recognize Maris’ record in 61 because he had more games (an unfair advantage over Ruth). Who holds the single season record? Doesn’t the game (and the players) evolve?

PEDs and Bonds: As though he's the only one that was improving his performance.

It's all the lying, denying and covering-up that is the real shame, in that way it's the same as Rose.

Gaining a competitive advantage is human nature.

Teams stealing signs, the Patriots taping opponent's practices.

When ballplayers stopped smoking and drinking every night (and smoking in the dugout), that had to improve their performance.

Bunch of pencil-necks sitting around deciding...
“Amphetamines that’s OK,
Flax seed oil- hey wait a minute… that IS cheating”

When Gaylord Perry was caught cheating he was thrown out of the game.
College teams lose their wins.

Did MLB go back remove his Home Runs from the box score? And which ones....?
The team gets every Home Run and every win, but for the record, Bonds never hit them. (??)

And all the BS with congress, if you go in front of a bunch of condescending old whites dudes (who are probably guilty of a lot worse) and cry, humiliate yourself, and beg for forgiveness... you get to keep your stats....

Other than healing faster and maybe making you stronger (something that you could do through exercise and diet, right) what else does it “enhance”.
Wouldn’t Lasik eye surgery be a type of performance enhancement?

When Favre was popping painkillers so he could play through the pain, was that considered performance enhancing?

I’m sure if he were in a lot of pain, it would definitely affect his performance.

I guess my real problem with the whole issue is that owners pay these guys hundreds of millions of dollars, and when we show up on a Tuesday or Sunday and lay down our hard earned money (and it ain’t cheap because the owner is in it to make money), we expect to see these superstars, our idols, and to perform.

We don’t want to hear about the pain or the wear and tear they are going through as humans. They are getting millions of dollars, right? (As if lots of money solves everything).

Then when they try to do what they can to get out there and earn their money, we hate that too.
I think we forget that they are humans like us, except with amazing talent and an immense pressure to perform.

“You want me to keep serving you the steak, but you don’t want to know how I slaughter the cow”

Estil

And let's not forget that Hank Aaron had 4000ish more at bats than Ruth.

akuracy503

Don't worry we will soon have a foreign born player with the name of Miguel Cabrera who will break the all time career home run record.

Aaron and Ruth will be greats of the past but the game must go on and records will always be broken.

sportscardtheory

As has been stated by others, it's completely illogical to judge two very different offenses exactly the same. Bonds cheated on the field, Rose broke rules off the field. Huge difference, thus they are judged differently.