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A raw 1860-s Seated Quarter just sold for $17K on eBay.

dogwooddogwood Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
This should be a short discussion, although rather remarkable.
I just wondered if anyone had been watching this one?
It looked to be AU, poor photos, newish dealer...but POW! Sold.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.

Comments

  • VTCoinsVTCoins Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭
    Looks like the person cracked the coin out of an NCS holder and artificially toned it.

    Heritage Auction where it sold for $10,575

    Tim Puro
    Puro's Coins and Jewelry
    Rutland, VT

    (802)773-3883

    Link to my website www.vtcoins.com

    Link to my eBay auctions

    Buy, sell and trade all coins, US paper money, jewelry, diamonds and anything made of gold, silver or platinum.
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,582 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if it were a problem free coin, price would easily be all there but looking at the bidding history, it look like two people went high right at the end, leaving one a buyer at some 7k above all the rest of the underbidders.

    I suspect it will be a return or not followed thru
  • VTCoinsVTCoins Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭
    I'm sure someone can post side by side photos from the Heritage Auction.

    Someone bought it for $10,575 on February 27, 2014 in an NCS problem holder, cracked it out and retoned it. They then sold it for $17,470 on eBay.

    Not good.
    Tim Puro
    Puro's Coins and Jewelry
    Rutland, VT

    (802)773-3883

    Link to my website www.vtcoins.com

    Link to my eBay auctions

    Buy, sell and trade all coins, US paper money, jewelry, diamonds and anything made of gold, silver or platinum.
  • indeetlibindeetlib Posts: 607 ✭✭
    Link to ebay sale

    Interesting. That would be a score for somebody if it grades (AU53?) and would be top pop at PCGS. But judging by the photos, I doubt it would straight grade.
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm sure someone can post side by side photos from the Heritage Auction.

    Someone bought it for $10,575 on February 27, 2014 in an NCS problem folder, cracked it out and retoned it. They then sold it for $17,470 on eBay.

    Not good. >>



    Same coin. Hits line up on the different images.

    Remarkable that folks will pay 5 figures on a raw Ebay listing.
  • indeetlibindeetlib Posts: 607 ✭✭
    Definitely the same coin.

    image
    image
  • VTCoinsVTCoins Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭
    Looks like he did it with at least one other coin.

    I don't have the time to look into more of the listings, but I am guessing there will be more.

    1851-O $10 sold on eBay for $1,250 on March 24, 2014

    Sold on Heritage $881.25 on March 2, 2014
    Tim Puro
    Puro's Coins and Jewelry
    Rutland, VT

    (802)773-3883

    Link to my website www.vtcoins.com

    Link to my eBay auctions

    Buy, sell and trade all coins, US paper money, jewelry, diamonds and anything made of gold, silver or platinum.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    Nice little business...who would have thought image
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    This is an ebay seller who has had to change their name and get new accounts many times over the past several years.

    Beware of this seller and the coins they sell...they were probably all problem coins before they were modified to deceive bidders
  • dogwooddogwood Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    Oh wow, good work folks. Saw that Heritage listing too. Ballsy.
    We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may send it in for an express grading and if it fails, return. Wow, layin' 10 large. Even more wow layin' 17 large for a raw coin on ebay. What a score if it holds up.
    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This is an ebay seller who has had to change their name and get new accounts many times over the past several years.

    Beware of this seller and the coins they sell...they were probably all problem coins before they were modified to deceive bidders >>



    my first thought.
    .
    edited to add:

    buying "details" coins from ha only to crackout and sell at shows and/or online has been discussed here many times just in during my tenure. a lot of great catches by the folks here certainly pulled the curtain back on that one. image


    2nd edited to add:

    if you are dedicate to the cause, check out how small the selling fee is for the 60-s. some nice savings there.

    3rd edited to add:

    for the latin guys, isn't this the place where we say, "caveat emptor?"
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NGC said cleaned. Now we can add AT, if those pictures are anything close to reality.

    Sure looks messed up.
    Lance.
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I recall a couple of sellers on eBay who did this on a regular basis when I was more active on the eBay fraud group. Probably one of them (Stone's comment noted).
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I find it even more amazing how many bidders were aggressively pursuing this coin. The winning bidders high bid will never be know as it only exceeded to underbidder by $100. The winning bidder seems to be a very prolific eBay bidder/buyer with 1882 completed transactions.

    OINK
  • gypsyleagypsylea Posts: 193 ✭✭
    15% return fee. Ouch. That is one f'ed up coin.
    Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll reiterate the suggestion I made recently. If the TPGS really want to take a proactive position to prevent this kind of chicanery in the market, they need to permanently encase coins like this in a solid block which will prevent removal for the purpose of doctoring as a means to add false value or even promote the possibility of unrealistic market value. And even though someone at sometime in the future might develop a method to remove such a coin from a solid block without imparting obvious damage, I would speculate that it won't happen any time soon.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll reiterate the suggestion I made recently. If the TPGS really want to take a proactive position to prevent this kind of chicanery in the market, they need to permanently encase coins like this in a solid block which will prevent removal for the purpose of doctoring as a means to add false value or even promote the possibility of unrealistic market value. And even though someone at sometime in the future might develop a method to remove such a coin from a solid block without imparting obvious damage, I would speculate that it won't happen any time soon. >>



    Heck, why not just melt them? Or flip them high in the air, pull out your Colt 45 and fire a bullet through them like in old western?
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, how much IS the coin worth? certainly not zero, right?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey, I like the idea of shooting a coin. Then it could be marketed as very rare Wild Bill Cody memorabilia.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Always seems to be from Illinois. Very close to this same crook in This Thread.
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,326 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone spending 17k on a raw coin on eBay needs their head examined!

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>So, how much IS the coin worth? certainly not zero, right? >>



    Coin sold at Heritage for $10,500 in a genuine holder. If doctored, the coin value would drop from there.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll reiterate the suggestion I made recently. If the TPGS really want to take a proactive position to prevent this kind of chicanery in the market, they need to permanently encase coins like this in a solid block which will prevent removal for the purpose of doctoring as a means to add false value or even promote the possibility of unrealistic market value. And even though someone at sometime in the future might develop a method to remove such a coin from a solid block without imparting obvious damage, I would speculate that it won't happen any time soon. >>



    Destruction of personal property is probably not a new service the TPG's are looking to enter in to.
  • NapNap Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll reiterate the suggestion I made recently. If the TPGS really want to take a proactive position to prevent this kind of chicanery in the market, they need to permanently encase coins like this in a solid block which will prevent removal for the purpose of doctoring as a means to add false value or even promote the possibility of unrealistic market value. And even though someone at sometime in the future might develop a method to remove such a coin from a solid block without imparting obvious damage, I would speculate that it won't happen any time soon. >>



    TPGs make mistakes too. I put some, but not all my faith in their assessments.

    Also, I own problem coins. I suspect many of you do too. There's a place for them in the market. They have a value. They are not the problem, rather the deceptive marketing is.
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The most remarkable thing about this thread is not the scam of reselling a problem coin after some AT. It's been done many times before. The remarkable thing is that the 1860-S quarter is so rare in AU and in such demand that a raw problem coin would bring $17k in an eBay auction with an awful return policy. I'm not sure the artificial toning even had an effect on the final eBay price. If anything, it probably decreased it.



  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭

    Does the 15% return fee hold up?
    Can a buyer still use SNAD and get a full refund?
    Ed
  • dogwooddogwood Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    I guess you would have to argue that it's not in "Excellent Condition".
    Because, as rhedden points out, it certainly is "rare".
    That was the whole mystery to me initially- what was this coin doing raw on eBay!
    I'm actually glad it's been proven to be authentic and have a traceable history.
    We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    not for me but God bless them
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Probably still worth the $10K or so it brought at auction. It is after all a very scarce coin, especially with AU details. It probably didn't look all that great scrubbed and dipped either. The seller will probably find a home for it someday. It will show up somewhere "out of the blue" as a fresh coin having been put away for decades...lol. And it will sell for all the money to someone.

    With only 2 bidders over the $10K level, it seems the last 2 bidders (assuming no shill) didn't want to having the smaller kahunas. I recall where I did something like that once on Ebay for a fresh looking PCGS MS66 saint. It had the "look" of a MS67. And I took another guy up to around 2X MS66 money before I gave in. No one else was even close to our bids. Never found out if he was the "winner" or "loser." I think I ran the guy more out of spite because I had a feeling I was not going to be able to win the coin. So make "em pay I say.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think I ran the guy more out of spite because I had a feeling I was not going to be able to win the coin. So make "em pay I say.



    Ebay sellers must love you, roadrunner!
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> I think I ran the guy more out of spite because I had a feeling I was not going to be able to win the coin. So make "em pay I say.

    Ebay sellers must love you, roadrunner! >>




    They haven't loved me since 2008. That's the last time I've bid on any Ebay coins. One seller "loved" me so much that they kept my money and didn't even send a coin. No more Ebay. I left it to the crooks and shills.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    I watched the coin auction end, it's a very scarce coin, and downright rare in that state of preservation. I bailed out at around 5K, I figured at 5K it was worth a shot, since I was certain it was genuine (at least as sure as I could be from the pics.) As a problem coin, it was still worth more than 5K. I was blown-away by the 17K price it brought though. I though it would go for 10K, which is what it went for on HA!

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