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The new 5th edition Overton book...yay or nay?

I have a copy on the way, has anyone had a chance to dive into it yet? Hopefully it's not a lemon like the 4th edition.

Comments

  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    Not sure if you received this email from Sheridan Downey:


    Collecting friends and colleagues,

    Last Thursday Don Parsley advised me that his printer failed to ship the new Overton book on schedule. Poor Don. He issued a press release in December, breaking the surprising news of a 5th revised edition and telling distributors that the books would be available in late January. Then it was late February. Then he was told that Friday March 14 was the shipping date (from Michigan). So now it looks as though it will be April before any of us see the new book.

    If you expected to pick up your book this week at the Baltimore show it won’t happen. I had to cancel a shipment of 16 books that were to be sent directly to the Whitman show. If you ordered a book and sent your payment expect to see the fruits of Don’s labor in April. I’ll let everyone know when my original order arrives in Oakland. I’m not holding my breath. Neither should you. Yes, I am still accepting pre-issue orders at the originally advertised price of $69 postpaid. (Retail is $85.) I will hold to this price until the Baltimore show closes March 29.

    Now some good news. Steve Herrman delivered his Spring 2014 44th revision of AMBPR early! I’ll bring a few copies to Baltimore. If you’d like me to mail one to you tomorrow or Tuesday reply to this email. The cost is $30 plus postage. Media mail costs $2.50; priority mail is $5.00. I have only 10 copies available. They will go quickly. I’ll ship yours with an invoice and return envelope.

    I’m heading to the Baltimore show Wednesday. The show opens to the public at noon Thursday March 27. Keith Davignon is bringing his marvelous 83 piece consignment to Mail Bid Sale #39 (August ANA Convention in Rosemont). The coins will be displayed and available for preview during the Baltimore show and again at the Central States Show in Schaumburg April 23-26.

    I look forward to seeing many of you at the Baltimore and Central States shows. In the meantime enjoy March Madness. I just finished watching #10 Stanford defeat #2 Kansas, creating a #10 vs. #11 matchup against Dayton in the Sweet Sixteen. What fun!

    Kind regards to all,
    Sheridan
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think Sheridan is awesome. I still owe him a big favor, going to surprise him one of these days, like I did the first time.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭
    From what I hear, there has been a delay in shipment to dealers (for what reason, I don't know). I have been emailing Dave Kahn regarding the subject. He says whomever is selling the book on eBay for $85+ must have connections to the author, or "editor" rather.

    I still haven't decided if I'm getting a copy. I am not hopeful that this copy will be any better than the 4th Ed., which left a lot to be desired.

    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • coin22lovercoin22lover Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
    I am skeptical as well, but I went ahead and bought one for $69.
  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm skeptical, have all 4 so far and will likely buy it, but I don't get the sense it's urgent. I mostly still use the 3rd edition.
    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • coin22lovercoin22lover Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
    Ditto on the 3rd.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>From what I hear, there has been a delay in shipment to dealers (for what reason, I don't know). I have been emailing Dave Kahn regarding the subject. He says whoever is selling the book on eBay for $85+ must have connections to the author, or "editor" rather.

    I still haven't decided if I'm getting a copy. I am not hopeful that this copy will be any better than the 4th Ed., which left a lot to be desired. >>


    The fellow in Michigan who is selling the 5th edition is one of Mr. Parsley's wholesalers. He picked up the books directly from the printer.

    I will buy a copy from Sheridan Downey for $69. I don't know if it will be better than the 4th edition. It would be great if it had the Bust Half Nut Club errata (see Rutherford's site). But I am not hopeful.
    Lance.
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    It is only $69 best price right now, but I will wait to see what those actually viewing the 5th have to say, before I spend a dime. Be honest, the 4th was not up to expectations.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Be honest, the 4th was not up to expectations. >>

    LOL. I spent an entire day updating my 4th edition with all the errata. I applaud Don for his efforts in producing a 5th edition but we'll have to wait and see how/if it is better.
    Lance.
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,438 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Be honest, the 4th was not up to expectations. >>

    LOL. I spent an entire day updating my 4th edition with all the errata. I applaud Don for his efforts in producing a 5th edition but we'll have to wait and see how/if it is better.
    Lance. >>



    Yes, do be honest...the third edition had plenty of mistakes as well. It's errata page is just as long as the fourth.



    That said, I sadly expect that even if the errors from the fourth edition are corrected just as many others will crop up in the fifth.
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • Knowing that the same old low resolution images shot in the 80's will be included makes it a definite no for me. Also since Don never responded to questions about whether updates and corrections will be incorporated, my guess is that they will not be, another reason not to buy.
  • CyStaterCyStater Posts: 681 ✭✭✭
    Where is the best place to order a copy from?
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Where is the best place to order a copy from? >>



    Prices probably won't differ much dealer to dealer. I know Dave Kahn will have some copies come April. Maybe try him image
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have to say a couple of things.

    First I don't collect early half dollars by die variety although I have attributed everything I've ever owned ... except for one 1827 half dollar that I never could figure out.

    Second, I've never been a fan of the Overton book. I think that every other die variety book on early U.S. coins is easier to use, and I own them all. I have owned the first and third editions, and I didn't care for either one.

    I'd say that if you are specialist in the series, you should buy it. If not, I don't think that it is necessary.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ill keep an open eye for it. it might be interesting.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The printer has shipped the books, finally.

    If you would like to get in on the special $69 price (retail is $85) today is the last day you can do so through Sheridan Downey. Email him at sdowney3@aol.com and mail your check or money order to him at:

    Sheridan Downey
    4100-10 Redwood Rd. #398
    Oakland, CA 94619-2369

    If you'll be at the Baltimore show Sheridan will have a small supply and the price will be $75.
    Lance.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    never mind
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Also since Don never responded to questions about whether updates and corrections will be incorporated, my guess is that they will not be, another reason not to buy. >>

    The latest word from Don is that all of the items on the errata list were considered but not all were accepted.

    It will be interesting to see what errata were not included.
    Lance.
  • coin22lovercoin22lover Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
    I got my copy, but haven't had much time to look it over. So far, looks very disappointing.
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭


    << <i>...So far, looks very disappointing. >>



    Sorry to hear image What immediately turns you off?
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • coin22lovercoin22lover Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
    Brian, the photos appear to be slightly enlarged duplicates from the 4th edition. I just can't understand why in 2014 they chose not to do better.
  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds same same...
    Like others here, I would love to have an Overton book with excellent pictures...Lance, this could be your calling image
  • coin22lovercoin22lover Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
    How would one gather up all the pictures needed to publish a book, anyway?
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm getting 2....one for a friend. My 4th is just too beat up. If they address the errata, as they said they would, even if they don't incorporate everything, it'll be just fine. It is still a terrific resource from my standpoint.

    Tom

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sounds same same...
    Like others here, I would love to have an Overton book with excellent pictures...Lance, this could be your calling image >>

    Funny...I was just talking to Mozin about that.

    I have a couple hundred of high quality, very detailed die variety images. Including many of the original Overton coins. But it will be years before I have most of them, and it'll never be complete. Some day I'll assemble what I have and share them.
    Lance.
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Edgar Souders, author of BUST HALF FEVER, along with Lance's pictures, could produce a wonderful CBH attribution book. Edgar is the top Bust Half Dollar man, in my opinion, and you have seen what Lance can do with coin pictures. Sadly, I have little hope such a book will be produced in the near future.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • QuarternutQuarternut Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Sadly, I have little hope such a book will be produced in the near future. >>



    Depends on what you think "near" is...

    A book will be done, you can count on it.

    QN

    Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!

  • QuarternutQuarternut Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭
    Coin22lover, have you had any chance to check out more in the 5th edition to see if it has really been corrected and updated from the 3rd & 4th?

    According to what Don Parsley was finally pushed into saying by members of the BHNC, I quote:


    "All of the items on the errata list were addressed. All were considered but not all were accepted or changed."


    I'm not to sure what that means...if something is wrong (in error), then why would you not change or fix it? That is what an ERRATA list is!

    QN

    Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, let's check a couple of facts right here in this thread, if someone with the 5th doesn't mind, let's try, for example, this question about an error in the 4th:

    For the 1807 O-115, what does the 5th edition give as the rarity rating, and what does it list as the condition census?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry



  • << <i>Well, let's check a couple of facts right here in this thread, if someone with the 5th doesn't mind, let's try, for example, this question about an error in the 4th:

    For the 1807 O-115, what does the 5th edition give as the rarity rating, and what does it list as the condition census? >>



    The last count was 4...

    I put this page up on my site for fun...

    Top ten rarest pre-turb bust halves
    You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey, neat page!

    Yes, 4 are currently known, so R7+ and the condition census is NGC VF20 (discovery coin), PCGS VF20, PCGS F12, and VG details/damaged/cleaned.

    The 4th edition has it R6 and 55, 50, 45, 40, 40. It says "found in 2004" but it was found in 2003 and verified in 2004.

    Two of the major pickup points are not mentioned, the picture is quite poor.

    Any improvements in the 5th edition?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • okiedudeokiedude Posts: 643 ✭✭✭
    Reading Bust Half Fever right now, I think I am up to 1819 on the year list. Very educational and interesting. I just ordered the new book, in hopes that it will be an upgrade from my 1967 Overton. As a noob, I really am struggling simply trying to decipher Overton. I find it incredibly confusing, I understand the basic descriptions of the coins, but don't really understand how they relate to the O-#. So much for my college education-sigh.
    I will try and post up an example later and maybe some of you who are more intelligent than myself could help. image
    BST with: Oldhobo, commoncents05, NoLawyer, AgentJim007, Bronzemat, 123cents, Lordmarcovan, VanHalen, ajaan, MICHAELDIXON, jayPem and more!
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How would one gather up all the pictures needed to publish a book, anyway? >>



    You need to have a lot of collector friends, help from an organization, like the Bust Half Nut Club or access to a great museum collection.

    I'd love to publish a new book on the 19th century presidential campaign tokens, but I don't have access to the pictures. My collection numbers over 500 varieties, but that is only a start.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Okiedude,

    Put your 1st edition Overton back on the shelf and don't open it again unless you catch die state fever in the future or choose to research the curiosities found within. Use your new book exclusively and you should have a much easier time attributing early half dollars. It is a complex subject but not difficult to master.

    The 1st ed. from 1967 is a book that should never have been published. It used a numbering system that which included die states, errors, and editor's mistakes instead of assigning a unique number to each die pairing. He assigned 7 different 'O' numbers to 1814 O.107, a common die marriage which appears quite different as the dies became worn. The problems with this edition are so severe that it should only be studied by an advanced student who understands the vagaries it contains. Overton used this early numbering system at least since the 40s so one is left to wonder exactly when he came to understand the concept of a die marriage as we understand it today.

    Best of luck on your quest!
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sheridan Downey dropped off the 5th edition the other day. I flipped through it, comparing the content to my 4th edition which has all the errata added that the BHNC cited (manually added). It wasn't a thorough analysis. But my impression is that Don Parsley incorporated the bulk of the errata and updated the condition census.

    It does not have the emission order. No surprise.

    The quality of the paper is improved. Which makes the images seem a bit sharper. The book is slightly thinner, but heavier. Some trivia (e.g., contemporary counterfeits) has been deleted. I really have to give it a better look-see. But my first impression is very positive.
    Lance.
  • okiedudeokiedude Posts: 643 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Okiedude,

    Put your 1st edition Overton back on the shelf and don't open it again unless you catch die state fever in the future or choose to research the curiosities found within. Use your new book exclusively and you should have a much easier time attributing early half dollars. It is a complex subject but not difficult to master.

    The 1st ed. from 1967 is a book that should never have been published. It used a numbering system that which included die states, errors, and editor's mistakes instead of assigning a unique number to each die pairing. He assigned 7 different 'O' numbers to 1814 O.107, a common die marriage which appears quite different as the dies became worn. The problems with this edition are so severe that it should only be studied by an advanced student who understands the vagaries it contains. Overton used this early numbering system at least since the 40s so one is left to wonder exactly when he came to understand the concept of a die marriage as we understand it today.

    Best of luck on your quest! >>


    Slum, thank you. I really thought i was losing my mind trying to interpret the '67 version. I will await the new book, and start over!
    Thanks again, Blake
    BST with: Oldhobo, commoncents05, NoLawyer, AgentJim007, Bronzemat, 123cents, Lordmarcovan, VanHalen, ajaan, MICHAELDIXON, jayPem and more!
  • Please check back in after you have had a chance to study the new Overton and give us an update on how your attribution skills are progressing. Many here on the boards can offer insights and tips.

    Brad
  • Please forgive me for posting to an old thread,

    It's been a year now and would like to know what the verdict is on this 5th edition.

    Just wanting to pick up an Overton book and was wondering if the 5th edition is relatively accurate?

    or should I just pick up a 3rd or 4th edition?

    Just like the Bust coinage and thought I should have some books and be informed a bit better for future purchases.

    Thanks.
    Dansco BU washie set empty holes:
    32d,32s,34d,35d,36d,37,37d,37s,38,38s,39s.
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Please forgive me for posting to an old thread,

    It's been a year now and would like to know what the verdict is on this 5th edition.

    Just wanting to pick up an Overton book and was wondering if the 5th edition is relatively accurate?

    or should I just pick up a 3rd or 4th edition?

    Just like the Bust coinage and thought I should have some books and be informed a bit better for future purchases.

    Thanks. >>

    I just stumbled onto this thread.

    I have not found a reason to use the 5th edition over the 3rd edition (in combination with the electronic resources available on the Internet). The 4th edition still serves as a nice paperweight.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces

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