My Thoughts on Slabbing Ancient Coins in a Thousand Words

Aethelred

NiceCurrency

indeed

no offense lordM

ajaan

Is that a commentary as a collector or a dealer.

bronzemat

Bravo, thats what I do.

Only one I have a pick of with the shattering.

Walter

You seem very harsh on those holders. When I want to separate NGC holders I just get a phillips head screw driver into the seal points around the edge, lightly hammer it down on each, then the two sides come cleanly apart.

Swampboy

I've heard learned "keep those staples away from my coins" but never "keep those shards of plastic away from my coins" so that's probably o.k.

oakcoin

so why did you buy them slabbed? Could they not have been found raw?
Or are more expensive ancient usually found slabbed?

Aethelred

<< <i>Is that a commentary as a collector or a dealer. >>



I guess as a collector, these are all coins that are part of my collection, not my inventory. I don't intend to sell any of them.

Aethelred

<< <i>You seem very harsh on those holders. >>



Muwahaha

Aethelred

<< <i>so why did you buy them slabbed? Could they not have been found raw?
Or are more expensive ancient usually found slabbed? >>



I found the coins I liked without consideration to what the coins were in. Those that had been slabbed needed to be liberated, I like to touch them from time to time.

NiceCurrency

Do you have a gallery on FORVM? I'd love to read about and see that Judean coin and the Parthian one as well, I don't know anything about coins from those areas

EVillageProwler

I struggle with this with my Anglo-Saxon hammered coins... I buy them usually raw, so no issues there. But sometimes I buy them slabbed (I operate in a US-based market, so it can't be helped), and then I find myself in a dilemma. It's gutsy to crack out a Cnut in 65 or Burgred in 64.

For now, I simply defer the question. I can always crack them out later.

EVP

lordmarcovan

Hahaha!

All of those came from me.

I paid for the slabbing on three of the four of them.

To each his own.

Aethelred used to plastify stuff (though not ancients).

He once collected Franklin halves, too. So nyah nyah.

Aethelred

<< <i>Hahaha!

All of those came from me.

I paid for the slabbing on three of the four of them.

To each his own.

Aethelred used to plastify stuff (though not ancients).

He once collected Franklin halves, too. So nyah nyah. >>




The Zuz didn't come from you, but the others did.

I would like to comment on your contention that I once collected Franklin Half Dollars, but at this time I must invoke my rights under the Fifth Amendment.

Zohar

A picture is worth a thousand words!

NiceCurrency

the whole gamut of numismatics can be fun

I started with Morgans, got into paper and after seeing and handling more than people twice my age I got burnt out and now I'm hot and heavy into ancients (not that I've liquidated my paper money or anything and I still buy the occasional piece)

JCMhouston

To each his own, I prefer mine (not ancients though) to be entombed, although I buy a lot of raw coins from Europe. I have been looking at a few ancients over the past year, but with the quantity and quality of fakes I'll probably stick to slabbed if I take the plunge.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>The Zuz didn't come from you, but the others did. >>

True. I wish it had. That's a helluva nice coin. That's a Judaean coin that even I can love, and I don't usually find Judaean coins appealing. (Visually, anyway. Their history is fascinating.)

The Judaea Capta came from me, though.

Funny how the label from one is lying next to the other, and vice versa.

Aethelred

<< <i>Do you have a gallery on FORVM? I'd love to read about and see that Judean coin and the Parthian one as well, I don't know anything about coins from those areas >>



I do not. However I have a webpage HERE that is in want of serious updates. Many, but not all of my coins can be found there.

I collect coins that are in some way related to the Bible. That is coins directly mentioned, people or places mentioned or coins from that era. That is why I have coins from Augustus to Domitian, but no Julius Caesar as I can find no way to work him into the context of my collection.

I hope that in a year or so a lot more information on what I collect, why I collect it and how to build a collection of it will be available, but for now I can only offer the above mentioned webpage.

Iosephus

The way they were meant to be .

NiceCurrency

very cool, I know what I'll be reading tonight

lordmarcovan

I miss that Augustus as, a bit. Though well worn, it had character. The portrait on it kinda "pops".

In fact, I bought and sold that coin twice. Bought, sold, repurchased it, sold it again.

I thought it cool that the moneyer whose name is on the reverse of it was probably the emperor Otho's grandfather.

Aethelred

<< <i>very cool, I know what I'll be reading tonight >>



I am honored and I hope you enjoy it!

STLNATS

Breathe free little round disks, breathe free! Well done!

Aethelred

<< <i>Breathe free little round disks, breathe free! Well done! >>



They seem so happy now.

oakcoin

That Bar Kochva is really nice! I agree with Lordmarcovan. Probably the nicest judean coin.

NiceCurrency

<< <i>

<< <i>very cool, I know what I'll be reading tonight >>



I am honored and I hope you enjoy it! >>




great stuff, loved the artifacts as well




tying the history into these pieces is half the fun imo

Aethelred

Thank you.

STLNATS

<< <i>so why did you buy them slabbed? Could they not have been found raw?
Or are more expensive ancient usually found slabbed? >>



I don't think the second part of your post got addressed. What follows is MHO only, of course.

I think slabbing of ancients is a mixed bag and is primarily a US phenomenon. I discussed this with a well known dealer that I've known "forever" and he told me that he carried some slabs of more popular series (owls, colts, high grade common denarii, etc) to make collectors of US coins more comfortable with ancients, to encourage cross over sales as it were. Most of his "good stuff" continues to be sold raw since "serious" collectors don't generally consider slabs to be a value add. This might be a bit too broad of a statement, but with the exception of Heritage, I think most auction firms which have dealt with ancients for a while continue to sell their coins raw, and I'm not sure that slabs of ancients have any meaningful presence with collectors outside the US. And a lot of collectors seem to use trays to store their coins, which don't accomodate slabs very efficiently unless you have a fairly small collection.

When you consider that most ancients survived perfectly well, even if buried, for a couple of thousand years without plastic, the notion that they now need extraordinary protection is kinda weak, especially when a lot of us like to handle the coins themselves. Even within a given series, every ancient coin is different and the plastic can interfere with their study more so than those stuck by machine. Also, I think its fair to say that the more popular TPG firms focus on the grade and do not guarentee the authenticity of the coins themselves. Finally, when slabs were first introduced for ancients, there were a number of just silly attribution errors and, while the services seem to be much better now, that didn't help the image of slabs' value either.

While I'm obviously not a plastic guy, I do own several (bought that way) but only for more modern issues where I think the grade or indication of a specific variety might make a difference (eg MS 65 or better) at resale. Along the lines of my recent semi-rant, tho, each collector should decide what works best for them. If folks like slabs and are willing to pay for them, that's fine. If a collector wants to follow our friend Aethelred's path and set our little round friends free, that's fine too.

NiceCurrency

<< <i>told me that he carried some slabs of more popular series (owls, colts, high grade common denarii, etc) to make collectors of US coins more comfortable with ancients, to encourage cross over sales as it were >>



interesting, and it makes all the sense in the world!



<< <i>Also, I think its fair to say that the more popular TPG firms focus on the grade and do not guarantee the authenticity of the coins themselves. >>



this isn't the first time I've seen that mentioned but wow if we worked like that at PCGS Currency we wouldn't be around very long, authenticity is the entire damn point!

SmEagle1795

I've bounced around between wanting to slab my ancients and not wanting to. Here's my arguments on both sides:

For slabbing:
- For thick coins, storage becomes much easier. There are no "Airtites" which are thick enough to accommodate a dekadrachm or even a tetradrachm.
- It prevents coins from sliding around. I know our coins have existed for thousands of years but humans are notoriously good at damaging things even when not intending to. I've seen hundreds of beautiful coins held back from being great because of substantial wear on the side touching the fabric.
- It makes it easier to share coins with the uninformed. You don't have to worry about them scratching gold, wearing down high relief coins, dropping them, etc.
- The attribution is inseparable from the coin. This makes it easier for heirs to understand what they have.
- Auction houses can't hide problems. I'm always a bit disappointed at auction houses when I see problems in-hand that are hidden on pictures and not mentioned in descriptions. NGC levels the playing field quite a bit.

Against slabbing:
- The prongs obscure a substantial portion of the surface area of the coin. If slabs did not obscure the coin's surface at all, I might reconsider.
- You can't hold the coins and feel their heft. While an octodrachm slabbed does feel heavier than a denarius slabbed, the tactile experience is significantly limited.
- The cost to slab expensive coins is exorbitantly high. It would cost me literally thousands of dollars to slab my collection (they charge 1% of the value for "ultra rarities"), and I am absolutely unwilling to pay that much. I wouldn't be okay with slabbing only the less expensive portions of my collection as I'd prefer consistency in storage.
- Taking coins out of the slab does introduce some risk to damaging the coin, although it is quite fun.

So, how am I storing them?
- I have a 40-slot coin case by Nomos (sold through CNG as well) which is felt lined. I've cut apart Saflips and have lined the bottom of it with them, to prevent the coins from touching the felt and to reduce movement. My collection is stored in a SDB so movement is minimal anyway but whenever I do have it outside of my box, I try to keep it as level as possible.

I have had a considerable amount of success with an alternate approach as well: the member Bossman88 on this forum makes custom acrylic holders. He can make them to any depth and size, so my coins don't rattle around or have any friction on the highest points. They were somewhat costly, but far less expensive than slabbing and these actually work beautifully well. The only downside is that as I add new coins, I needed to keep getting new holders, and again, I'm a stickler for consistency. Long term, I like this approach the best, but I'll need to get to a cadence of less buying before I can keep bothering him with PMs to make a new holder

Hope that helps!

mkman123

If I was to own a ancient coin, I'd stick with a slabbed one just for protection...........Ive dropped a slab on the floor before, thank goodness the coin was slabbed as I probably would have caused a dent on it or something like that.

Plus those NGC slabs are great in that they tell you what the coin is, year, etc.

lordmarcovan

I slab mine for display purposes, so I can put 'em in my fancy little wooden box. In my humble opinion, they look great like that.



Truth be told, I don't care terribly about the grades. I do like the info NGC puts on the holders, and while they do not offer an ironclad guarantee of authenticity, they have refused to slab a few of my submissions where they couldn't verify authenticity (because of filed edges or something else I'd overlooked). So while not ironclad proof against fakes, NGC certification does mean that at least one additional set of experienced eyes has examined one's coins, and as such is an added layer of protection.

And the plastic certainly doesn't hurt when one wishes to sell on eBay or even the BST here. As the dealer STLNATS spoke with mentioned, it opens up the market to some US collectors who might not otherwise consider purchasing ancients, and that to me is not a bad thing. I tend to be a somewhat shorter-term collector, holding most of my coins (except the real favorites) less than five years. So anything that helps me when resale comes around is a good thing. And it doesn't stop the traditionalists like our dear Dead King here from buying them, as you see. He is free to remove them from the plastic, as he has.

Yes, I do sometimes miss the experience of handling my ancients raw, and feeling their "aura" of antiquity more closely. But that's a small sacrifice for me. So far the slab thing has worked out OK for me.

(For the record, though, I was perfectly happy with my 2007-08 Roman collection being all raw.)