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Is it possible for TPG's to make a mistake: confusing die polish as cleaning?

I'm still scratching my head on a coin that came back Cleaning, UNC details a couple weeks ago.. I had it in a PCGS MS63 holder. Was doing a raw submission so I cracked it. Came back cleaning...?? I thought it was under-graded so I could never imagine it coming back Cleaning.

Has anyone seen this before? I don't want to spend another $30-$45 for a grading fee (again)...is there a way to send it in with a note and tell them what they called cleaning is clearly a die polish.

thx in advamce

Comments

  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 7,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do you have a photo of the coin?
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am afraid anything is possible with the tpg's. >>



    Yep. Once it is out of the holder [including PCGS'] all bets are off.
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh you betcha. Maddening . .image. . image

    There are a few $3's in the 60's where heavy die striations show up quite often. Lots of Seated dates show up like this sometimes, 1862 $1's?

    It seems they see what they're afraid not to.

    These stick out because they are current expensive "mistakes". I'll try again next year and see if I can get it right next time. . . image

    The higher the coins are graded the more likely the lines will be correctly interpreted. Check out the Akers 1867 $3 PCGS MS67 CAC from this last Platinum Night for an exemplar.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes,

    Years ago, friend of mine had a nicer better date morgan with what was clearly die polish lines, came back cleaned. Was re-submitted and corrected .
  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,051 ✭✭✭
    ubetcha, I have 2 WWII-era Swiss specimen strikes they graded as MS. When in Chi-town next, I'll be wringing someone's neck.

    Frankly, if they miss something this blatantly they should refund all fees, and fire the clowns doing the grading that day. imageimage
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes.

    Been there and done that.


    However, usually, once its slabbed, the only recourse is to crack it out and resubmit.

    If you "tell" someone what to look for, chances are they're going to find it whether its there or not.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had it the other way... Bought a NGC cleaned satin proof and wanted it in PCGS plastic ...it came back pr 62.

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had one a few months ago. Crack and now she is fine, and 1 grade higher than she was when I first cracked it as well.
  • savoyspecialsavoyspecial Posts: 7,267 ✭✭✭✭
    and important to remember is that those are not mutually exclusive -- meaning a coin can have raised die polish lines AND have suffered a past cleaning

    www.brunkauctions.com

  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Always send them in the holders. They crack them out before the graders see them, so the worst that can happen is it comes back the same grade. That is the only way I do it.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭
    without question yes as I have a Mexican 8R come back as cleaned.
    It looks very much like a 1880-S Morgan pl with the die polish linesimage


  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lots of U.S. silver type coins are rife with die polishing as made, which could be carelessly judged as evidence of cleaning. There are a plethora of business strike 1921 Morgan dollars that exhibit this feature.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes... has been reported here many times over the years.... Cheers, RickO
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it's possible, although I'm guessing they get it right the vast majority of the time. One coin I sent PCGS a while back was a 1903 VAM 1A Morgan. It graded as it should have, so the graders didn't just drop it like a loaded diaper when the first thing they saw was the scratches. Both dies are heavily polished.

    imageimage
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everything is possible in the coin world.
  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 7,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess not.
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Really kewl gif you made JB. image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A few years ago I bought an dipped and coming backprettily 1867 25c in an ICG AU58 holder for a bit over a grand. Already a score! Cracked it and sent it to our hosts. I expected (actually KNEW) it would come back AU58, so why not hope to get lucky? I thought an MS grade was somewhat appropriate. And $50 is $50 no matter the result.

    It came back PR58.

    I then consigned it to a Goldbergs sale where, still in that PR58 tombstone, it brought over $2,000. Saw it a year later, still PR58, in the internet section of a Signature, and bought it back for $1500. Cracked it and sent it to NGC and sold my newly minted mint state example (MS61) for over $3000.

    Knowledge is power. Jhdfla will chortle as I describe the reverse fields as being striated semi-PL with 35% obvious frost. Blatantly not a poorly struck proof. I forget what Breen says. I looked and processed. It didn't take me 12 seconds. I had to pick up a loupe and ponder.

    Another time an auction partner and I saw an very late 60's 25c PCGS PR64 totally striated but with frosty fields beneath the toning. We didn't buy it cheap. Others saw it too. Now PCGS MS66

    I guess it works both ways. But the anticipatable disappointment sometimes makes me feel even foolish and futile.

    Another dead president will be on its way to its destination after either I or the graders cool off.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Happens. I got a "cleaned" designation on a mint-sealed 2009 UHR double eagle. Was DPLs. A phone call got if changed to MS65. Lotsa heartburn on that whole experience.

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