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Will Amazon blast Ebay out of the water on coins?
MGLICKER
Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
Many frustrated Ebay sellers might give Amazon a shot should they decide to become competitive in this channel.
The "Gold Hoard" may give us a clue to the direction that Amazon is headed.
The "Gold Hoard" may give us a clue to the direction that Amazon is headed.
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-Paul
<< <i>I doubt it.
-Paul >>
I would have agreed with you 3 days ago.
Kagin/Hall would not have steered this thing to Amazon though unless they had a really good reason.
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Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Wonder if they will be charging sales tax on a $2500 Saint, which would be tax exempt in many markets?
- Jim
It's important to remember though that Amazon does many many things well and it's entirely possible that they would be the company to correctly execute a format to beat E-Bay.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
The only thing that I can think of , that has taken market share from ebay in coins is Ians GC. And probably more from the larger auction companies than ebay.
I doubt that many of us would have considered the internet to be huge player in rare coins sales pre Ebay.
I am not a fan of Amazon, in fact I closed my account a year ago after a few screw ups on their part, but when they decide to be players, they are.
Ebay has made many missteps in the rare coin segment, and charging a $200 fee to the casual seller for selling a $2000 Saint certainly leaves them open to serious competition.
bob
Find the coins. There is no way Amazon has any interest in competing directly with eBay.
Heck just look at around the landing page for the Saddle Ridge Treasure on Amazon... no other coins anywhere.
Amazon is a perfectly suitable alternative venue for these particular coins. It will make payment easy and I'm sure it takes far less off the top vs. eBay. But this won't even cause a ripple in the water – let alone blow anyone out of it.
<< <i>No...they charge sales tax which will kill many transactions. >>
Sooner than later, everybody will have to pay sales tax. That's inevitable. In most states, you owe it now anyway, even when the seller doesn't collect it. When the sites have to start reporting your purchases, your state will come knocking.
In my state, both bullion and rare coins are exempt if over $1,000.00. Everything else pays tax and although Ebay may not collect, I pay it regardless.
As the great Saintguru said in another thread.
Check back here in 3 or 6 months and see what is going on.
<< <i>A dozen years ago Amazon was exclusively in the book business. Not E books but real books. That was it. They added CDs the mix. Both are virtually extinct today, yet Amazon does what $100B a year in sales (I'll look it up).
As the great Saintguru said in another thread.
Check back here in 3 or 6 months and see what is going on.
No doubt, Amazon has had an awe inspiring run. However, they tend to only dominate markets in which they have no real competition with their space - their space being the Internet. They have also had many notable failures along with their successes. One of their most notable is of course... "Amazon Auctions".
Personally I'm more interested in them setting their sites on delivering my groceries.
<< <i>A dozen years ago Amazon was exclusively in the book business. Not E books but real books. That was it. >>
Not exactly.
Early Amazon: Auctions
In March of 1999, Amazon.com launched an auction site to compete with eBay.
Amazon Auctions was designed to be a frontal assault on eBay, reproducing everything they had in one fell swoop. Amazon thought its tens of millions of customers would immediately adapt to auctions and small businesses would flock to our site. It was an aggressive move that was foolishly arrogant.
When the site launched, it was technically superior to eBay's, faster, better search, and several new useful features. The inventory was reasonable, but not large.
Over the following months, the site did not grow as rapidly as some at Amazon optimistically projected. Amazon customers turned out to be quite timid about exploring the auction site, fearful of the lack of guarantees and customer service, unattracted to the idea of bidding.
Amazon Auctions stalled. Sellers moved away. Eventually, Amazon just gave up on it.
<< <i>Good point, Ankur.
Wonder if they will be charging sales tax on a $2500 Saint, which would be tax exempt in many markets? >>
It seems to me it's more important the tax jurisdiction where the coin originates from than where it's going. While my state has no tax on rare coins (and no tax on bullion valued >$1,000) I had to pass on the last
Heritage auction in NY because they were going to charge me NY City sales tax (around 8-9%) since the coins were being sold in NY. If you don't have a resale certificate I don't think you can work around this.
<< <i>No...they charge sales tax which will kill many transactions. >>
Amazon only charges tax if they have to. I pay WA sales tax on any Amazon purchases since I live in WA (and the same would go for anyone living in any state where Amazon has offices), and I pay WA sales tax if I buy from a third party vendor based in WA. If I buy from a third party vendor located outside the state, sales tax doesn't get assessed at the time of the sale.
<< <i>Why would I pay tax on coins through Amazon? I don't pay tax on anything from Amazon. No tax on coins in Illinois. Now that I think about it I do pay tax on Amazon from Illinois vendors but I don't buy from Illinois vendors. >>
Used to be that way for most people. However, state by state, the tax man has been negotiating with Amazon. Part of it is because Amazon has opened so many more distribution centers in various states. However, even states without one of these big centers are trying to negotiate with Amazon to collect tax on all U.S. based sales. CA, NY and some other big states are collecting tax. IL is sure to be on the wish list given the state's huge budget problems and the large population. They might wait until 2017 until the IL-based president is out of office.
<< <i>Many frustrated Ebay sellers might give Amazon a shot should they decide to become competitive in this channel.
The "Gold Hoard" may give us a clue to the direction that Amazon is headed. >>
As an Ebay stockholder I hope not. Memo to self: get to annual meeting and get the Drone initiative on the agenda. (As a practical matter the BIN feature that is becoming more and more popular on Ebay likely is a consequence of Amazon's success with their business model.)
With regard to the "Gold Hoard" Amazon may well be an ideal way to market to a broader segment of the population that really is not interested in opening a PayPal account.
I visited the Kagin booth at the ANA show this afternoon. Saw the gold coins on display. Phenomenal. Mind-blowing. The most gorgeous gold coins I've ever seen. I'm going back tomorrow, and the first thing I'm going to do is stare at them again. And I'm a silver guy.
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Top 10 • FOR SALE
<< <i>The only reason Kagin gave the hoard sale to Amazon, IMHO, is for publicity. They know Amazon will reach a much wider audience than Heritage, Stacks, etc. Not everyone is comfortable bidding on the big boy websites but everyone and their uncle has an Amazon account. I can't wait to see this bidding war!
I visited the Kagin booth at the ANA show this afternoon. Saw the gold coins on display. Phenomenal. Mind-blowing. The most gorgeous gold coins I've ever seen. I'm going back tomorrow, and the first thing I'm going to do is stare at them again. And I'm a silver guy. >>
Was Kagin offering any for sale? The last sunken treasure coin I purchased (one of the last Central Americas, if I recall correctly) was from Kagin at a coin show. If so were they offered at BIN prices?
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1. Look up the items available by title.
2. Get rid of "Best Match" and use "Ending Soonest".
3. Get rid of all "Buy It Now" listings (usually about 90-95% of the total listings) and go to "Auction Only".
4. Scan the auctions to get to the 10% or so that are actually auctions and not pseudo-auctions with full retail starting prices.
5. Find nothing of interest and move on.
The way I search/buy on Amazon:
1. Look up the book title.
2. Find that everything is overpriced.
3. Move on.
OK, so this is perhaps a bit extreme but the fact is that my purchases on eBay and Amazon are now at an all time low.
<< <i>eBay is an insatiable greedy monster that will raise fees, impose restrictions, control payments and generally gorge itself like a yellow jacket bee eating garbage until it dies a slow painful death. Go For It Amazon!! >>
That too!
<< <i>Will Amazon blast Ebay out of the water on coins? >>
Not anytime in this decade, as far as I can tell.
In the future? Who knows.
Innovation (and lower cost) is driven by competition. Even if they are perceived as a threat, that's good.
HA also needs a competitor to drive innovation and lower costs - - right now, that's not happening.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
What does it get you? Stock Options. Look at the change in Amazon stock price over the last 5 years, couple that to stock options measured in thousands of shares, and it is easy to see why so many people work for X years, then bail out. A significant number of my co workers left, to enjoy time with family, reinvent their careers in a new vector, or just kick back, after selling their options and banking many many YEARS of paychecks.
With Amazon's current fee structure I don't think so, although according to Quantcast Amazon receives more traffic.
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
<< <i>Will Amazon blast Ebay out of the water on coins?
With Amazon's current fee structure I don't think so, although according to Quantcast Amazon receives more traffic. >>
Something has Ebay blinking awfully hard. Just sold six $20 Libs for no final value fee on my secondary Ebay account. Primary account has the max fee dropped from $250 to $100.
I am not an Amazon lover, but if they get fee competitive, I will jump in a heatbeat of a spring peeper.
I have a little different view, since I worked for Amazon. They bought us out 4 years ago, and they KNOW how to drive sales. It could be rusty nails and spitballs, but they will market the heck out of it, set HIGH sales goals, and revenue targets. I have put together REAMS of data for COGS (cost of goods sold) reviews, but with Amazon, it was the first time I ever was measured in CENTS per item.
I agree with mustangmanbob. Amazon will eventually take over Ebay in the arena of coins.
What you guys cannot see very well is the volume of coins they already sell on a daily basis. Ebay lets you see actual sales, whereas Amazon hides that data. Why? I don't know, but they do.
In the realm of coins, Amazon is similar to the early days of Ebay, where it was the Wild West of online coin shopping. The other big difference between the two platforms is that the coin buyers on Ebay are more sophisticated (I can't believe I just said that), while the average coin buyer on Amazon is not knowledgeable about coins and values. They may be on Amazon to buy a book or DVD, then they see a neat old coin and they pay double Red Book value for it. There are not good coin deals on Amazon. This is my experience.
<< <i>There are not good coin deals on Amazon. This is my experience. >>
Agreed. A total revamp is required. I think that the Gold hoard is their kickoff party.
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Top 10 • FOR SALE
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
First, very little there and most of it higher priced items. Their seller input matrix is not tuned for coins, which means you see listings like "1795 No Mint Mark Silver Dollar Dollar NGC10, Collectible - Like New" - yeah, really.
I don't know why some people think Amazon is so great. They really are not. Anyone who subscribes to their Prime TV service knows how glitchy their software can be and how little they care. My bet is that this will turn out just like their auction attempt - a mass exodus.
<< <i>I doubt it.
-Paul >>
I would doubt it as well but weirder things have been known to happen!
Wouldn't it be a hoot to have eBay begging folks to come back and then deleting their emails with a vengeance??
The name is LEE!
In addition, ebay provides the opportunity to herd customers to me directly so that I can provide them with additional sales. Some buyers do not like the Ebay buying experience and I can completely understand that so those buyers come directly to you.
8% with being able to search prices realized, search for geographic anomalies , develop direct future customers?
That's actually a bargain.
Just think of this, whatever Apmex or DLRC or MCM pay in Ebay commissions-just imagine how many people are driven to their websites for direct sales? The numbers must be fabulous.
<< <i>I just cannot figure out why people complain so much about the Ebay fee structure. My total % is under 8%. >>
Cannot speak for others, but my complaint is with the initial low fees which spiraled higher over the last few years.
I left a small business for the opportunity that I saw on Ebay. Selling a lot of higher dollar coins, my fees for the first several years on a $2000 piece was about $37 to Ebay. Today it is $120.
By paying $16 a month and jumping over 20 foot bars, I get 20% back. Still nets to $96 vs $37.
Now of course Ebay is a publicly traded company and can set pricing as they please....
....but then again, so was General Motors, AIG, AMEX and on and on and on.