Jaw Dropping Ebay Experience - A New Low - Wild Update

MiniDuff

I am so frustrated right now that I am shaking, so forgive me for blowing off some steam here, rather than getting myself banned from ebay...

I've been selling on ebay for over 15 years. In that time I have never, not once, had a negative feedback. I take service seriously, as the many of you here that have dealt with me know.

I had an SGC 92 1975 Topps Yount rookie for sale and it was bought by a new ebay, who just opened the account, which always makes me nervous. It took a couple of days, but he paid and I sent it to his confirmed address.
I like SGC cards as a collector, but don't love them as a seller as I find their cases brittle. As such, I always send them wrapped twice with bubble wrap, then a third time in a bubble envelope.

Buyer gets the card and opens a case saying that the case is chipped and cracked. Complete BS and even more aggravating as I accept returns, no questions. I respond to the case that I agree to a refund, upon return of the card.
Today, I get an email that the case has been escalated by the buyer. I go to the case history and it shows a tracking number, leading to a delivery to my town yesterday. I did not get the card back, not even an empty envelope. I immediately called ebay and spoke to three different people as it escalated. In each of the first two cases, I hear, wow, you have fantastic service, we appreciate you. Lets get this to the right person, which ultimately is the third person, which is in the "postal claims" area.

I go through the story a third time, asking what address the tracking number was sent it. It only shows my town. This woman tells me, I am sure it was your address, it did go to your town. I tell her, I did NOT get the item back and I want to know to where the "package" went. She tells me she doesn't know, but going to my town is "good enough". After a discussion, she agrees to put a 48 hour hold on the decision, so I can go to my post office with the tracking number and get documentation as to where the item was actually mailed to. At the post office, they took the information, told me the postmaster was gone for the day, but would get back to me in the morning.

I just got back from the post office and get an email from ebay that the case has been decided in favor of the buyer and my account has been debited.

Am I missing something? Or is my sheer rage justified?

Tabe

It sure sounds like your rage is justified. I assume you're not going to just let this go?

JoeBanzai

That sucks big time. I have never heard of the package only having to be delivered to your town. Thought it had to be "delivered" to your residence.


hopefully it arrives in a day or two.

addicted2ebay

Sorry to hear... This is part of the reason I have been consigning more and more to Rick. Total B.S.

aconte

Ugh!

Sorry to hear this Jim. Ebay can sure be rough for selling.

I think you are justified with your feelings. Not sure what you can do to make this turn out ok for you.

aconte

Guru

I would be shaking and in a rage too. I'm getting pissed just thinking about it.

I'm sorry man. The Post office is horrible to deal with and so is ebay these days. I've found that once they make a decision it's super hard to get them to reverse it. This just sucks man and I'm sorry you have to go through it.

Dboneesq

Such BS Jim. Please let us know after you speak with the Postmaster tomorrow. GOOD LUCK!

ThoseBackPages

Horrendous

MiniDuff

Thanks. I am more pissed at ebay than the post office. I know the post office makes mistakes, but the service they provide for what they charge is one of the true bargains out there.

I just got off the phone with ebay again and they acknowledged that they had agreed to a 48 hour hold on the case pending the outcome of my trip to the PO, but the buyer had called and "re-escalated" and the decision was made to refund him. Gee we are sorry that you did the right thing and called us right away and we sent you to the post office and agreed to wait 48 hours, but someone didn't read the notes, now you have to start an appeal...if we decide in your favor, you will get your money back and it wont count against you...

Just wow.

One of two things happened here. It was mis-delivered or the buyer is a fraud. Either is possible, it is not like the PO never makes a mistake, but the whole brand new buyer who opened an account to buy your item sent something to your zip code is good enough? A real caution for sellers.

CDsNuts

Call the consumer affairs department at your city's post office, they are the ones that will actually make the calls to track it down and call you back to let you know the status. The regular post office folk don't usually make the effort.

zep33

I've heard horror stories over the years about the zip code only - it's a scammer's invitation

sorry this happened to you

Bosox1976

Very interesting that a "new" ebayer is such a master of the escalation process.

My money is on him shipping to a friend in the same zip code.

cpamike

Here Jim, have one of these.

I don't blame you with your frustration. I'd be pissed off too. I hope you can find out some useful information from the post office. Good luck!!!

Stingray

That is crap, eBay could not even wait to hear back from you on checking with your post office. I would change your preferemces to only allow people with a certain feedback to be able to bid on your auctions. If you can still do that on eBay.

BigMK

The more I hear of these types of stories, the more reluctant I am to sell on eBay. There are too many crooks online who find ways to take advantage of honest sellers. Ebay does not require delivery confirmation to a specific street address, only to a zip code for items under $250, otherwise signature confirmation is required (I believe that is the policy). A person can take a junk package and have it delivered to another address within the same zip to make it look like it was successfully delivered to comply ebay regulations. This process is flawed, but part of the problem is the delivery conf feature that is used with USPS only gives confirmation to city, state and zip, not to the actual street address. Sorry to hear of this, keep fighting..

mygotta

My stomach would be turning in knots at this point. I believe you can set your seller settings to only allow buyers with 10+ feedback. Something like that.

dennis07

"The more I hear of these types of stories, the more reluctant I am to sell on eBay. There are too many crooks online who find ways to take advantage of honest sellers. Ebay does not require delivery confirmation to a specific street address, only to a zip code for items under $250, otherwise signature confirmation is required (I believe that is the policy). A person can take a junk package and have it delivered to another address within the same zip to make it look like it was successfully delivered to comply ebay regulations. This process is flawed, but part of the problem is the delivery conf feature that is used with USPS only gives confirmation to city, state and zip, not to the actual street address. Sorry to hear of this, keep fighting.. "

All I can say is "wow". Learn something new everyday, I guess.
Edited to add: To the OP I feel your frustration. I hope this somehow works out for you.

hyperchipper09

I've bought a couple of things off eBay. Just recently in fact. A Warren Moon RC one of the items. Wouldn't sell on eBay for anything however. Too many of these stories. And, from what I gather, it only takes one of these to kill you as a seller on eBay.
They'd have to pay me a stipend to sell on that place. Along with guarantees. So, never happen. And most likely my buying is done as well. Too much fraud permeates that place.

MiniDuff

Not anymore, you cant believe how hard it is to set a blanket block:

These are my settings, the tightest allowed:
Have received 2 Unpaid Item strike(s) within 1 Month(s)
Have a primary shipping address in a location I don't ship to
Have 4 Policy Violation report(s) within 1 Month(s)
Have a feedback score of -1 or lower

So someone with an unpaid strike, zero feedback and 3 policy violations can bid on anything from anyone.

This is the downside of dealing with a public company. The low hanging fruit was picked long ago, so the only option on the ebay side is to attract more sellers, raise fees or increase buyers by lowering standards.

mlbfan2

<< <i>My stomach would be turning in knots at this point. I believe you can set your seller settings to only allow buyers with 10+ feedback. Something like that. >>



Unless it's different for some sellers, you can only block bidders with -1 feedback, or worse.

MiniDuff

The worst thing, in a way, is that even if the whole thing is a case of a nervous buyer new to ebay and sloppy service by the post office and the card shows up tomorrow, it doesn't change how ebay handled this.
Forget the potential fraud, it sucks, but as a seller, you build in a % for breakage. I agreed to the return immediately, I called ebay the second confirmation showed but I didn't have the item, I followed their instructions and somehow, right now, this event is a strike against me as a seller in their calculations...

Tishasheree

If the person was a scammer, it seems like it would be easier to just mail a brick (or other item) back to you, so that it showed delivery to your house. What is the likelihood that the person has a willing accomplice in your zip code? Maybe it was mistakenly delivered to a neighbors house or something?

grote15

Was the item over $250? My understanding is that a signtaure is required for an item over $250 to be returned. Ebay is a landmine these days. I have not had any issues personally, but sell very few items there now, and usually lower dollar stuff or on a BIN/BO format where I have some control over who I deal with. I would rather sell an item here on CU and get less. I'm really sorry this happened to you, Jim. Is the buyer also local to LI? If so, I might consider asking him if he'd like to meet for a little resolution.

bbuckner22

Let's not forget what the OP wrote in his original post. The card was bubble wrapped twice then sent in as padded mailer. No way that card ever gets damaged, and probably no way the scammer even sent it back. I don't know about other sellers, but in the last 6 months I've had more buyers claim damage to the holders ( I always bubble wrap and ship in a box) and want partial refunds. Again, eBay just enables this crap

bbuckner22

<< <i>Was the item over $250? >>


Looks like it sold for $159.99

fur72

Sorry this happened to you.

Seriously though. That would piss me off. A new ebay buyers word against that of an established seller? I hope the card shows up. But like Mike (BoSox) said the zip code scam is one not easy to prove. I look forward to hear what the post master says.

galaxy27

Requiring you to tell your story to a handful of different people, reneging on their word, bypassing logic and prematurely hopping into bed with a buyer devoid of cred -- all so incredibly eBay-like. Until some stiff competition emerges, it's their world and we're just living in it.

Really sorry this happened to you, mini. If I were you, I'd keep shouting from the rooftops until a competent rep hears what you're saying and decides to incorporate a shred of conventional wisdom. It might take 100 calls, but I think you'll eventually get there.

hammered

Sorry to hear this
I just a went through my own BS with eBay
I'll spare everyone the details, let's just say I got tired of dealing with their phone monkeys in Bombay, and I just gave up.
If I were to guess, I'd say your package is at the PO showing delivered, which sometimes happens at my PO. I often need to wait in line there to collect my package that shows it has been "delivered"
Hope that's the case here

Edited to add: the one thing that really makes me nervous is the fact he made phone calls to ebay in quick succession, anxious to get his money, likely before it was discovered that he never sent the card

OAKESY25

the problem with DC it will just show as item delivered. If this guy sent an empty box to a random address in the same zip it will suffice as delivered.
returns should be required to have signature confirmations (which can be billed to the seller.. I would have no problem)
this way protecting the seller. Because at this point nothing you do will help you I don't believe.

burke23

This exact thing happened to me as a buyer and I lost because it was delivered somewhere in Minneapolis (a different zip code even). I think they should have to ship through eBay or USPS so you have electronic proof of the recipient address. Horrible policy.

psychump

<< <i>That is crap, eBay could not even wait to hear back from you on checking with your post office. I would change your preferemces to only allow people with a certain feedback to be able to bid on your auctions. If you can still do that on eBay. >>



+1

vols1

The post office takes pictures of all shipping labels as they pass through the scanner. They store this data for up to a month.

ndleo

This is exactly why I stopped selling high dollar cards on ebay. There are too many ways for the seller to get screwed. Anything over $300 I consign or sell through this forum.

I would love to block low feedback bidders but ebay refuses to make the change.

cardbender

Sorry this happened to the OP.

How DC should change is the PO should require an exact mailing address.
That way the potential scammers would actually have to mail the return back
to the originating address. Sure they could still mail you back an empty box
or package but at least your post office would be able to confirm the return
got to the correct address and not just the same city and zip code.

This change alone might eliminate 50% of the fraudulent scams going on out there.

Or, another postal change change could be that all returns would require signature confirmation, regardless
of the value of the item.


On your claim, can't you request that paypal asks the buyer what address
he mailed the item back to? More details in other words.

JMDVM

Has anyone ever tried to sue Ebay to try and hold them accountable?

Southsider

<< <i>Has anyone ever tried to sue Ebay to try and hold them accountable? >>



I would be fairly certain that you have given up your rights to sue ebay via the terms and conditions that you agree to as part of being a registered seller on ebay. Probably something like you agree to binding arbitration, in the jurisdiction of ebay's choosing, with their selection of the arbitrator. In other words, good luck.

zep33

Complaints to the BBB have had success in the past

EchoCanyon

It's clearly a scam and something that has come up several times on the boards.

In the last year or two, a fellow member posted that he sold several sets (so the box was heavy) to a scammer who said the box was empty. When the PO was contacted, the postman confirmed dropping off a heavy box. Scammer then changed his story to full of magazines or bricks(?) -- and the scammer still won the case.

MiniDuff

One new piece of information that doesn't clarify all that much. Apparently my house is on carrier "route 10" and the confirmation number was scanned on "route 9", but I still don't know if it was a mis-delivery or actually sent to an address in "route 9". Checked with my wife and we did not get mail at all on Wednesday, which is odd as well.

fergie23

Definitely sucks but if the shoe were on the other foot how many folks would be lambasting eBay for "holding" the refund (assuming that they actually had done that) when the buyer has delivery confirmation that the item was returned?

It is unclear what people think eBay should do, you can't simply assume this is a scam by the buyer. What proof is there that the buyer is scamming the seller? We have seen plenty of evidence of sellers with lots of feedback being scammers as well. No matter how well you package things damage can occur.

This doesn't mean I necessarily believe the buyer but folks on here are so quick to shout scam when there really is no actual evidence.

Robb

packCollector

<< <i>Very interesting that a "new" ebayer is such a master of the escalation process.

My money is on him shipping to a friend in the same zip code. >>



as a seller , I think the situation sucks. in this case , I have to think the post office screwed up. if the newbie was going to screw you , he would just send you an empty padded mailer.

as for the new ebayer knowing the master of the escalation process, I think this is actually not the newbie but ebay.

if you have an issue and you go to the item , all the prompts basically direct you to file a complaint and to escalate it to review.

packCollector

<< <i>Checked with my wife and we did not get mail at all on Wednesday, which is odd as well. >>



Jim , even more interesting is that I am in MA and I didn't get any mail on Wednesday either when we get something every day of the year barring blizzards.

MiniDuff

Fergie - I'm in the middle of the situation and I don't know the truth of it yet, so there is no way that ebay can. Ebay states that a seller will receive a refund within 3-5 days in an snad case when it has been decided for them. In this case, they not only jumped the gun in less than 24 hours, they did it after I spoke to three different people, who agreed and confirmed that a decision would he held for 48 hours for me to get information from the post office, beyond reasonable. They then ignored their own promise and notes on the case and closed it anyway.
Today's mail just came and no card, and my carrier has no idea either, so now I am waiting on a return call from the postmaster on my town.

15 year seller who has never had a negative feedback or lost a case - presumed guilty
brand new buyer - all the benefit of the doubt in the world.

Common sense or fairness? Not so much.

bbuckner22

<< <i>15 year seller who has never had a negative feedback or lost a case - presumed guilty >>



<< <i>brand new buyer - all the benefit of the doubt in the world >>


This is really disturbing to me. A sellers flawless 15 year track record should count for something, but not at eBay. I think if a buyer is going to return an item, the postage HAS to be purchased from eBay so that there is no doubt where the return is being sent.

hammered

<< <i>Definitely sucks but if the shoe were on the other foot how many folks would be lambasting eBay for "holding" the refund (assuming that they actually had done that) when the buyer has delivery confirmation that the item was returned?

It is unclear what people think eBay should do, you can't simply assume this is a scam by the buyer. What proof is there that the buyer is scamming the seller? We have seen plenty of evidence of sellers with lots of feedback being scammers as well. No matter how well you package things damage can occur.

This doesn't mean I necessarily believe the buyer but folks on here are so quick to shout scam when there really is no actual evidence.

Robb >>




Of course no one knows for sure
But this sure looks like a scam
The likelihood that the holder wasn't actually cracked given how it was packaged, the fact the buyer is "new" with low FB which is usually the type of account someone runs a quick scam with, the fast escalation of a case to get money back without allowing the seller to receive the card first, and now delivery to a different address in then same zip code.
No one is jumping the gun here. Every single thing about this says scam.
I hope it's not but this doesn't look good

aconte

<< <i>

<< <i>15 year seller who has never had a negative feedback or lost a case - presumed guilty >>



<< <i>brand new buyer - all the benefit of the doubt in the world >>


This is really disturbing to me. A sellers flawless 15 year track record should count for something, but not at eBay. I think if a buyer is going to return an item, the postage HAS to be purchased from eBay so that there is no doubt where the return is being sent. >>



+1

The fact there seems to be such an indifference on eBay's part without a little hesitation to look at the seller's track record here is disturbing. I know we are talking about a big company with standard
procedures but their lack of effort to exude some customer good will makes one not one to sell on their site.

aconte

bbuckner22

Any updates? Did you hear back from the PO?

MiniDuff

Oh, to be caught between the post office and ebay... a contest of ineptitude.

Today's update is that my carrier was off that day and was covered by another driver, which is why his scanner was used on the card. He insists he delivered it and saw me driving away.

A couple of problems with that: I got no mail at all that day. When he covers her route, he does it second and the mail comes around 3 (when I would be driving to get my son), however the package was scanned at noon. He neither delivers to me at noon and I am always home at noon. Plus, the mail is an event at my house, I have packages coming and going every day. I know my carrier well. I am always aware of when she comes and vice versa.

So anyway, I spoke with my own carrier today and she gave me a couple of names and numbers up the chain to pursue on Monday. I still don't have an answer as to where the package was addressed to, but she says it can be done. That will answer a lot.

Guru

I deal with this all the time. Whenever I have my regular carrier, she always does her job the way it should be done. She's awesome at making sure everything is correct, etc. However, whenever there's a sub it's always messed up. I always have to go to the local post office and talk with the same supervisor and try to get it worked out. So incredibly frustrating.

Our sub carriers are not that great around here any way. I always give our regular carrier a gift card on her birthday and at Christmas. This year, both times the sub took the card and kept it. I had to go to the post office and talk directly with their supervisor to get it resolved. Kinda makes you wonder why we trust USPS at all.

MiniDuff

Twice before, the same sub refused to deliver a case of cards to me when my carrier was off. I was told I had to drive six miles to the post office to personally lift and retrieve something I paid $60-$100 to have delivered to me. My carrier went ballistic when she heard the first time, so the second I did not pick up, she brought me the next day. her point was that service was paid for, not freight shipping to a depot. You can find the poor attitude anywhere, I am just grateful my primary carrier is so good, and yes, I personally hand her a gift for occasions.

Mickey71

Mini,

Knowing that your mail carrier is an idiot and regularly does not do his job.....can't the buyer be possibly telling the truth?