Scenario

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 3:07AM

Let's say a seller has a modern, but fairly rare card for sale as a buy it now with a best offer. And let's say a buyer makes an offer and the seller accepts the offer. The seller states in his listing that the card is in "great condition", having overlooked a flaw. The buyer receives the card and notices that the card has a significant ding/bend on a corner with other corners being touched.

The buyer notifies the seller of this situation and tells him that if he would have known of the flaws, he would not have offered so much for it. The seller replies that he will give a full refund. The buyer then says that he does not want to do that and that this card will do until a suitable replacement comes along. The buyer says that when a replacement comes along that he will have to sell the dinged card, but will get less for it because the flaw will be described. The buyer says that he would rather have a modest partial refund of whatever the amount that the seller thinks is fair in order to make up for the inaccurate description. The seller then replies that he would rather issue a full refund.

Discuss

cpamike · February 22, 2014 3:40AM

I was expecting pictures of cards with black mold.

Guru · February 22, 2014 4:01AM

In the real world you can't return an item to the store and say, "Well, it wasn't how you said it was going to be, but I still want it. So how about I keep the item and you just give me some of my money back." They would just laugh at you and say tough crap. Either return the item for a full refund or keep it.

otwcards · February 22, 2014 4:04AM

I think it is really at the seller's discretion whether they offer/allow a partial refund. Stinks that it was inaccurately described, but at least there was no objection with regard to the return. Good luck and I hope it turns out well for you.

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 4:15AM

<< In the real world you can't return an item to the store and say, "Well, it wasn't how you said it was going to be, but I still want it. So how about I keep the item and you just give me some of my money back." They would just laugh at you and say tough crap. Either return the item for a full refund or keep it. >>

Exactly. I think I am going to tell that buyer to shove it!!!!!

Ok, guys. I guess you have me figured out.

Let me for a moment point out that your comparison is apples to oranges. Of course, a store like Wal-Mart, would not offer a partial refund. However, this is a different scenario. This is not an item that comes up for sale very often.

In your analogy, a better example would have been if I bought a car, and the dealer was mistaken about an important aspect of the car, and after I got the car home there was something wrong with it that the dealer didn't tell me, I think it would be very fair to go back to the dealer and at least ASK what could be done to be fair to the buyer AND still make the sale. Then, if the dealer doesn't want to make it right, then it is up to the buyer whether or not he wants to keep it or return it.

OAKESY25 · February 22, 2014 4:35AM

I never give partial refunds.. always full upon return..

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 4:39AM

As a seller, I have done both full and partial.

Meatloaf · February 22, 2014 4:43AM

<< In the real world you can't return an item to the store and say, "Well, it wasn't how you said it was going to be, but I still want it. So how about I keep the item and you just give me some of my money back." They would just laugh at you and say tough crap. Either return the item for a full refund or keep it. >>

+1

steel75 · February 22, 2014 4:47AM

Assuming there was a clear scan of the card, what "damage' was not visible to both the buyer AND seller at the time?

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 5:01AM

<< Assuming there was a clear scan of the card, what "damage' was not visible to both the buyer AND seller at the time? >>

On a glossier newer card (mid 90's), you can't tell from the scan. It is very obvious in person, though.

mrmopar · February 22, 2014 5:34AM

Buyer can choose to send it back and offer less if/when it's relisted. However, the buyer may risk the seller relisting it the exact same way, giving no concern for the flaw and keeping the price the same.

As a buyer, I would try to see if the seller was willing to drop their price because of the flaw, thinking that it would sell for less to the next guy (again, assuming the seller was honest and disclosed the flaw). If the seller was not willing to budge and I was not comfortable with the price, then I would have to return it. If I could live with the price, I guess I would bite the bullet and keep it.

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 6:09AM

<< Buyer can choose to send it back and offer less if/when it's relisted. However, the buyer may risk the seller relisting it the exact same way, giving no concern for the flaw and keeping the price the same.

As a buyer, I would try to see if the seller was willing to drop their price because of the flaw, thinking that it would sell for less to the next guy (again, assuming the seller was honest and disclosed the flaw). If the seller was not willing to budge and I was not comfortable with the price, then I would have to return it. If I could live with the price, I guess I would bite the bullet and keep it. >>

That is exactly what I was thinking. By me requesting a modest partial refund, it is like me buying again at a reduced rate without going through the trouble of shipping it back.

mtcards · February 22, 2014 6:28AM

I would probably ask for a return and no partial refund especially if I thought the price that I had sold it for was correct and should sell for the price it sold for

mknez · February 22, 2014 7:12AM

If it's truly that rare, I would keep it a as buyer. If it was returned, the seller would probably have me blocked from bidding on their future auctions.

brian26 · February 22, 2014 7:58AM

<< Let's say a seller has a modern, but fairly rare card for sale as a buy it now with a best offer. And let's say a buyer makes an offer and the seller accepts the offer. The seller states in his listing that the card is in "great condition", having overlooked a flaw. The buyer receives the card and notices that the card has a significant ding/bend on a corner with other corners being touched.

The buyer notifies the seller of this situation and tells him that if he would have known of the flaws, he would not have offered so much for it. The seller replies that he will give a full refund. The buyer then says that he does not want to do that and that this card will do until a suitable replacement comes along. The buyer says that when a replacement comes along that he will have to sell the dinged card, but will get less for it because the flaw will be described. The buyer says that he would rather have a modest partial refund of whatever the amount that the seller thinks is fair in order to make up for the inaccurate description. The seller then replies that he would rather issue a full refund.

Discuss >>

Tough situation, but I think it has to be all or nothing. Buyer should send the card back for a full refund or keep it for the original price. Trying to re-negotiate is difficult after the card has already been sent. Now, if the seller admits that the card had flaws and that the original listing was in error, then you have a starting point to discuss.

lightningboy · February 22, 2014 9:46AM

I've experienced that situation from both the seller and buyer's perspective. It worked out well both times, as I offered a slight refund to a buyer and I was given a partial refund from a seller. If both parties can agree then it is a great solution.

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 9:55AM

<< I've experienced that situation from both the seller and buyer's perspective. It worked out well both times, as I offered a slight refund to a buyer and I was given a partial refund from a seller. If both parties can agree then it is a great solution. >>

That's all I was trying to do. Apparently, the seller doesn't want to do that. I will probably just keep it. It still perturbs me a little bit that I paid $137 for a card and didn't know it was flawed like that, and the seller says it's in "great condition".

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 11:09AM

I am the buyer, as most of you figured out.

I contacted the seller to try to work it out. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

The seller (either knowingly or unknowingly) failed to describe the card properly. If this card was a card that could be had easily, it would have been a no brainer - I either keep the card or I send the card back for a refund. However, this is a very rare card - a 1994 Topps Black Gold Winner ABCD. If I send the card back, I may not see another one for a few years. So, I politely asked the seller if he would make up for his error without me sending the card back. He declined to do this. So, since this card is so scarce, I feel like I have no choice but to keep it, even though I am not satisfied with it. Positive feedback has been left, although a little reluctantly.

By the way, I am not asking for something that I have never done as a seller. I have given partial refunds in the past when I thought it was warranted.

swartz1 · February 22, 2014 12:10PM

What does "great condition" mean?

it is not a typical term used for cards...

big red flag...

thenavarro · February 22, 2014 12:14PM

I once gave a partial refund on a $2400 piece ($600 refund), and never really got the bad taste out of my mouth that the buyer could have been just scamming me as the complained "flaw" was a micro flaw that I couldn't even see when they sent a scan of the supposed damage, so my policy since that date is no partial refunds. All or nothing. Doesn't matter to me whether the buyer is having buyers remorse or justifiably believes they are right, same solution for me, full refund or no refund

Mike

Guru · February 22, 2014 12:31PM

<< 

<< In the real world you can't return an item to the store and say, "Well, it wasn't how you said it was going to be, but I still want it. So how about I keep the item and you just give me some of my money back." They would just laugh at you and say tough crap. Either return the item for a full refund or keep it. >>

Exactly. I think I am going to tell that buyer to shove it!!!!!

Ok, guys. I guess you have me figured out.

Let me for a moment point out that your comparison is apples to oranges. Of course, a store like Wal-Mart, would not offer a partial refund. However, this is a different scenario. This is not an item that comes up for sale very often.

In your analogy, a better example would have been if I bought a car, and the dealer was mistaken about an important aspect of the car, and after I got the car home there was something wrong with it that the dealer didn't tell me, I think it would be very fair to go back to the dealer and at least ASK what could be done to be fair to the buyer AND still make the sale. Then, if the dealer doesn't want to make it right, then it is up to the buyer whether or not he wants to keep it or return it. >>

So, this situation sucks. No doubt about it. However, as a former car salesman, I would never give someone money back if they did that. Once you drive off the lot it's in your hands. Not my fault that you didn't do a thorough search. I DO think that it's crappy that the scan didn't pick it up OR that he didn't reveal in his listing that there was a flaw. I think you would have a case with ebay for a full refund if you wanted to return the item. Unfortunately you don't and the seller doesn't have to issue a partial refund. I know, it sucks. I'm sorry you have to go through it. I think you've just gotta decide either to keep the card or get your money back. You said it was rare, is it possible to find another one? If so, get your money back and go for it. Do you have to have this item right now?

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 12:59PM

<< What does "great condition" mean?

it is not a typical term used for cards...

big red flag... >>

I agree. It is not a typical term. However, to a logical person, "great condition" on a 1994 card means at the very least a card without a huge ding on a corner.

frankhardy · February 22, 2014 1:08PM

<< 

<< 

<< In the real world you can't return an item to the store and say, "Well, it wasn't how you said it was going to be, but I still want it. So how about I keep the item and you just give me some of my money back." They would just laugh at you and say tough crap. Either return the item for a full refund or keep it. >>

Exactly. I think I am going to tell that buyer to shove it!!!!!

Ok, guys. I guess you have me figured out.

Let me for a moment point out that your comparison is apples to oranges. Of course, a store like Wal-Mart, would not offer a partial refund. However, this is a different scenario. This is not an item that comes up for sale very often.

In your analogy, a better example would have been if I bought a car, and the dealer was mistaken about an important aspect of the car, and after I got the car home there was something wrong with it that the dealer didn't tell me, I think it would be very fair to go back to the dealer and at least ASK what could be done to be fair to the buyer AND still make the sale. Then, if the dealer doesn't want to make it right, then it is up to the buyer whether or not he wants to keep it or return it. >>

So, this situation sucks. No doubt about it. However, as a former car salesman, I would never give someone money back if they did that. Once you drive off the lot it's in your hands. Not my fault that you didn't do a thorough search. I DO think that it's crappy that the scan didn't pick it up OR that he didn't reveal in his listing that there was a flaw. I think you would have a case with ebay for a full refund if you wanted to return the item. Unfortunately you don't and the seller doesn't have to issue a partial refund. I know, it sucks. I'm sorry you have to go through it. I think you've just gotta decide either to keep the card or get your money back. You said it was rare, is it possible to find another one? If so, get your money back and go for it. Do you have to have this item right now? >>

It is very possible that another one might not come up for sale in the distant future. I know I have been looking for this card for 2 or 3 years, and this is the first one I've seen. That is why I chose to keep it. As I stated, I was just trying to see if the seller would work this out. Obviously he didn't want to. So, I kept the card and left positive feedback.

Another way of putting it is this way - the seller is within his rights to not offer a partial refund. He did all he had to do to keep his selling reputation intact, but nothing more. He didn't even apologize for the misleading description. I'm just saying that as a seller, I would have tried to make it right somehow.

Guru · February 22, 2014 1:14PM

Well, if you keep the card I definitely think at the very least you should give neutral, but it also might deserve a neg. It's a bit of a pickle.

thenavarro · February 22, 2014 1:48PM

<< Well, if you keep the card I definitely think at the very least you should give neutral, but it also might deserve a neg. It's a bit of a pickle. >>

Wow, you really want to neg/neutral the seller although he/she offered a refund?

Tabe · February 22, 2014 1:50PM

<< Well, if you keep the card I definitely think at the very least you should give neutral, but it also might deserve a neg. It's a bit of a pickle. >>

I completely disagree. Seller offered a full refund - no way he deserves a neg because the buyer refused it.

Guru · February 22, 2014 2:00PM

<< 

<< Well, if you keep the card I definitely think at the very least you should give neutral, but it also might deserve a neg. It's a bit of a pickle. >>

Wow, you really want to neg/neutral the seller although he/she offered a refund? >>

Sorry...I didn't see that. Definitely not! That's what I get for not reading the full thread and being half awake.

mrmopar · February 22, 2014 2:45PM

This is the version that you would have sent in to receive the entire set, not the one that came with the set, right? i know I have a few varieties of those, as i collected a few players around that time and wanted those for the player collections. Can't remember now, but I'm fairly sure I am not lucky enough to have the big card everyone wants.

76collector · February 22, 2014 5:11PM

I had a situation that I think is some what similar. I bought a large lot of cards. I was happy with most of the cards but one key card had a very bad print defect on it, but the way the seller took the picture, it was clear he was trying to hide the flaw. I didn't want to pay $30 shipping when I was satisfied with the rest of the lot. The card was about a $40 card, so I asked for $20 back. He offered 12 back, and I thought that was fair. So, I understand some times how a minor refund could be a happy median between buyer/seller. Unfortunately, I also understand why some are hesitant to offer a partial refund, because I'm sure that will bring out the d-bag scammers, trying to take advantage. Anyway, I can understand, both sides.

stown · February 22, 2014 9:53PM

<< 

<< Well, if you keep the card I definitely think at the very least you should give neutral, but it also might deserve a neg. It's a bit of a pickle. >>

I completely disagree. Seller offered a full refund - no way he deserves a neg because the buyer refused it. >>

Agreed. If you're dissatisfied with the card, accept the full refund and wait for another to pop up.

vintageinvestments · February 22, 2014 10:00PM

As a seller I NEVER offer partials. Too many buyers that try to run this scam. Not many Shane Hardy's out there who are legit. I do not think a seller should be negged if they offer a solution such as a full refund. I would not offer a partial. Either you want it or not and I think the only option is to return it if you are not happy with the price paid. I happily accept returns. It is funny I have had very few over the years....less than a handful of returns, but I have had several who wanted partials. Out of the requests for partials I offer fulls and they NEVER send them back. I think 98% of the time it is a common scam on ebay for a buyer to get the item for less money IMO.

Jason

Scenario

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