I believe your "smoking gun" would be to check all HOCKEY box bottom auctions from 1985 Topps and O-Pee-Chee over the past year on ebay.
You would clearly see that there is only a select few bidders on these auctions, and this bidder with 3 feedback has never bid on any other auction dealing with 1985 Topps or OPC box bottoms in the pas year.
There have been some high profile 1985 Hockey Box Bottoms that have been sold on ebay over the past year, and this bidder never showed up for any of those.
Could he be new ? Yes, he could. But I'll continue to watch 1985 box bottoms in the future to see if this guy shows up again.
<< <i>There were a few items I wanted to buy in some recent auctions. I caught them early so bidding was $20 or less for cards that were going to sell for $100-150 and more. Normally I would just set snipes and win or lose and never look back. Inspired by these shilling posts I thought maybe a good bidding strategy to scare away the paranoid bidder would be to bid early and very often. On most I bid the next increment and immediately got outbid by ceiling bids. Ebay makes bidding easy and fun like a video game so I started firing off bid after bid until I finally was the high bidder. On some I had to put 30-40 bids in until I was high. Then I set my snipe and wondered if I would be making somebody's next ridiculous shilling post. >>
<< <i>There were a few items I wanted to buy in some recent auctions. I caught them early so bidding was $20 or less for cards that were going to sell for $100-150 and more. Normally I would just set snipes and win or lose and never look back. Inspired by these shilling posts I thought maybe a good bidding strategy to scare away the paranoid bidder would be to bid early and very often. On most I bid the next increment and immediately got outbid by ceiling bids. Ebay makes bidding easy and fun like a video game so I started firing off bid after bid until I finally was the high bidder. On some I had to put 30-40 bids in until I was high. Then I set my snipe and wondered if I would be making somebody's next ridiculous shilling post. >>
Yep -It's fun to fire off the bids ........ It only takes a couple minutes to place 37 bids ............ Go from .99 cents to $87.00 on card that has a $400 VCP value.
I'll admit to doing this to try and gauge where the max bid is at a few hours prior to auction end. It's fairly easy to do without actually ending up as the high bidder. Helps me decide if it's something I want to continue to keep an eye on or not. I know I could avoid this and set a snipe but sometimes I'm wrong on what I think an item should or will sell for. For example if I really like a card but think it should sell for $50 or less and I learn a few hours before auction end the high bid is at 70 I have a bit of time to figure out if I was off and should be rethinking what my max bid should be.
<< <i>Thank you to to all who've written and maintained an even keel on these topics. We do appreciate folks helping us to review the bid; nothing is more important to us than maintaining an honest auction experience.
That said, time and time again we are having to defend our auctions from conspiracy theories predicated on eccentric (but honest) bidding practices, combined with an over abundance of information. eBay is the only auction venue in the world that enables users to self police the items being sold (i.e. identifying specific bidders, researching bid history, bid retractions, % of bids with a given seller, etc). This information is invaluable and should be considered, but what's transpired is a somewhat common misconception of bidding behavior. Nearly always, when a bidder places multiple bids on a single item they are simply eccentric in their bidding (i.e. the thrill of hitting the 'place bid!' button many times) and are not part of a vast conspiracy to manipulate our auctions. On that note, we have many bidders who choose to place the majority/all of their eBay bids with us, simply based on a long term relationship of trust and repeated customer service. As such, we have many bidders who show an 80% or higher bid frequency with our company and this statistic too should not be used as a smoking gun accusation of impropriety. If you consier yourself a fellow police investigator of eBay auctions, all the various informations should be considered as a whole; i.e. if a bidder bids frequently with PWCC but has many bid retractions and has no feedback from PWCC, then I would consider that a flag worth investigating further.
Practicality should prevail in these matters. Rest assured that we are vigilant in pursuing bidders who we feel are manipulating our auctions. Though rare, we have managed to suspend several dozen bidder IDs over the years and have blocked many more. We assure the collecting community that shill bidding of any kind is strictly prohibited in our auctions and consignors are not permitted to participate in the bidding on items they consign.
Specifically, we have a run of 'Bot Bottom' hockey cards which I believe raised a flag with several members of this post.... and rightly so. The bidder in question is new to eBay, has low feedback, and has participated in those auctions somewhat awkwardly by placing what I would consider an over abundance of bids. Do these facts automatically condemn the bidder in question? The answer in 'no'. Some folks simply choose to bid many, many, times, and so long as eBay maintains it's small bid increment policy, this practice will likely continue. Sure, I am skeptical of this new bidder who participates in our auctions to a large degree. That said, this new bidder has a reasonable track record, having received 5 positive feedbacks within the last month for items closely in-line with those he's bidding on with us. Ultimately we don't have the grounds to block a new bidder with this track record... everyone has to start somewhere and though we don't encourage it, there's no rule against placing many bids in a single auction.
We at PWCC fully appreciate the message boards and feel they are an invaluable 'check and balance' in the hobby. We only ask that folks continue to be fact driven, and to please forward any concerns to me directly so that we can investigate and potentially take action. In this case, a consignor of several of the items discussed in this board stumbled on this post and didn't want their items perceived in a negative light. Short of this client notifying us, we would never known about it. PLEASE reach out to us directly in addition to submitting posts. We are all on the same side... we all want to maintain the fun and honesty of the auction experience.
Folks, this post is why PWCC is taking the lead in vintage card auctions. I'm a early 70's buyer of high end cards PSA 9's. For auctions, I exclusively use PWCC. If there is PSA 9 from 71-76, and it's on PWCC, I can assure you the price will be at least VCP average. Pending a catastrophic collapse of the economy or f-up by PSA, these cards are only going to go up.
I do look at other auctions, but can't seem to pull the trigger. Feels snake oily.
<< <i>I do look at other auctions, but can't seem to pull the trigger. Feels snake oily. >>
I understand the obsession with PWCC, but there are still other people that run nice auction, with good clear scans of the cards. Mike Denero, Amerlegends, DSL, Steve Novella, even yours truly come to mind.
<< <i>If you are so tired, why are you reading this thread?? Go take a nap or something! >>
I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>If you are so tired, why are you reading this thread?? Go take a nap or something! >>
I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
partial +1....i am also tired of this thread in general. Seems like there is one of these once a month. I enjoy the other topics forum members discuss...their personal collections, advice for rookies like me, etc.
<< <i>I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
So sorry...I'm one of the best...and I know it. Why hide it. I threw others that are good out there as well. And as far as this thread, nobody forces you to open it, or participate in it. You do that on your own accord. If you don't like the thread, then plain and simple, DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND DON'T PARTICIPATE!
<< <i>.i am also tired of this thread in general. Seems like there is one of these once a month. I enjoy the other topics forum members discuss...their personal collections, advice for rookies like me, etc. >>
<< <i>I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
So sorry...I'm one of the best...and I know it. Why hide it. I threw others that are good out there as well. And as far as this thread, nobody forces you to open it, or participate in it. You do that on your own accord. If you don't like the thread, then plain and simple, DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND DON'T PARTICIPATE! >>
<< <i>I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
So sorry...I'm one of the best...and I know it. Why hide it. I threw others that are good out there as well. And as far as this thread, nobody forces you to open it, or participate in it. You do that on your own accord. If you don't like the thread, then plain and simple, DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND DON'T PARTICIPATE! >>
As usual, the point completely eludes you..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
So sorry...I'm one of the best...and I know it. Why hide it. I threw others that are good out there as well. And as far as this thread, nobody forces you to open it, or participate in it. You do that on your own accord. If you don't like the thread, then plain and simple, DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND DON'T PARTICIPATE! >>
Bobby,
You really don't get it, do you?
The "best" allow others to proclaim as such. They don't have to keep trying to draw attention to themselves or boasting!
As I said this to you slightly less directly earlier this week; I am sure that you could contribute a lot more to this community in a positive way if you could just find a way to get out of your own ego's way. So for once instead of getting all snooty and indignant with your usual quick response why not fight the urge for the immature clever "comeback" reply?
You might be amazed at how much more positively you'd be viewed if you tried this kind of alternate approach.
Comments
That's a very informative post. Thank you.
I believe your "smoking gun" would be to check all HOCKEY box bottom auctions from 1985 Topps and O-Pee-Chee over the past
year on ebay.
You would clearly see that there is only a select few bidders on these auctions, and this bidder with 3 feedback has never bid on any
other auction dealing with 1985 Topps or OPC box bottoms in the pas year.
There have been some high profile 1985 Hockey Box Bottoms that have been sold on ebay over the past year, and this bidder never
showed up for any of those.
Could he be new ? Yes, he could. But I'll continue to watch 1985 box bottoms in the future to see if this guy shows up again.
Thanks once again.
Here is a legit 1985 Topps Hockey Box Bottom auction that sold a month ago, with legit bidders
Edmund 0
<< <i>There were a few items I wanted to buy in some recent auctions. I caught them early so bidding was $20 or less for cards that were going to sell for $100-150 and more. Normally I would just set snipes and win or lose and never look back. Inspired by these shilling posts I thought maybe a good bidding strategy to scare away the paranoid bidder would be to bid early and very often. On most I bid the next increment and immediately got outbid by ceiling bids. Ebay makes bidding easy and fun like a video game so I started firing off bid after bid until I finally was the high bidder. On some I had to put 30-40 bids in until I was high. Then I set my snipe and wondered if I would be making somebody's next ridiculous shilling post. >>
lol
<< <i>
<< <i>There were a few items I wanted to buy in some recent auctions. I caught them early so bidding was $20 or less for cards that were going to sell for $100-150 and more. Normally I would just set snipes and win or lose and never look back. Inspired by these shilling posts I thought maybe a good bidding strategy to scare away the paranoid bidder would be to bid early and very often. On most I bid the next increment and immediately got outbid by ceiling bids. Ebay makes bidding easy and fun like a video game so I started firing off bid after bid until I finally was the high bidder. On some I had to put 30-40 bids in until I was high. Then I set my snipe and wondered if I would be making somebody's next ridiculous shilling post. >>
Yep -It's fun to fire off the bids ........ It only takes a couple minutes to place 37 bids ............ Go from .99 cents to $87.00 on card that has a $400 VCP value.
lol >>
<< <i>Thank you to to all who've written and maintained an even keel on these topics. We do appreciate folks helping us to review the bid; nothing is more important to us than maintaining an honest auction experience.
That said, time and time again we are having to defend our auctions from conspiracy theories predicated on eccentric (but honest) bidding practices, combined with an over abundance of information. eBay is the only auction venue in the world that enables users to self police the items being sold (i.e. identifying specific bidders, researching bid history, bid retractions, % of bids with a given seller, etc). This information is invaluable and should be considered, but what's transpired is a somewhat common misconception of bidding behavior. Nearly always, when a bidder places multiple bids on a single item they are simply eccentric in their bidding (i.e. the thrill of hitting the 'place bid!' button many times) and are not part of a vast conspiracy to manipulate our auctions. On that note, we have many bidders who choose to place the majority/all of their eBay bids with us, simply based on a long term relationship of trust and repeated customer service. As such, we have many bidders who show an 80% or higher bid frequency with our company and this statistic too should not be used as a smoking gun accusation of impropriety. If you consier yourself a fellow police investigator of eBay auctions, all the various informations should be considered as a whole; i.e. if a bidder bids frequently with PWCC but has many bid retractions and has no feedback from PWCC, then I would consider that a flag worth investigating further.
Practicality should prevail in these matters. Rest assured that we are vigilant in pursuing bidders who we feel are manipulating our auctions. Though rare, we have managed to suspend several dozen bidder IDs over the years and have blocked many more. We assure the collecting community that shill bidding of any kind is strictly prohibited in our auctions and consignors are not permitted to participate in the bidding on items they consign.
Specifically, we have a run of 'Bot Bottom' hockey cards which I believe raised a flag with several members of this post.... and rightly so. The bidder in question is new to eBay, has low feedback, and has participated in those auctions somewhat awkwardly by placing what I would consider an over abundance of bids. Do these facts automatically condemn the bidder in question? The answer in 'no'. Some folks simply choose to bid many, many, times, and so long as eBay maintains it's small bid increment policy, this practice will likely continue. Sure, I am skeptical of this new bidder who participates in our auctions to a large degree. That said, this new bidder has a reasonable track record, having received 5 positive feedbacks within the last month for items closely in-line with those he's bidding on with us. Ultimately we don't have the grounds to block a new bidder with this track record... everyone has to start somewhere and though we don't encourage it, there's no rule against placing many bids in a single auction.
We at PWCC fully appreciate the message boards and feel they are an invaluable 'check and balance' in the hobby. We only ask that folks continue to be fact driven, and to please forward any concerns to me directly so that we can investigate and potentially take action. In this case, a consignor of several of the items discussed in this board stumbled on this post and didn't want their items perceived in a negative light. Short of this client notifying us, we would never known about it. PLEASE reach out to us directly in addition to submitting posts. We are all on the same side... we all want to maintain the fun and honesty of the auction experience.
Best Regards,
Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC
brent@pwccauctions.com >>
Folks, this post is why PWCC is taking the lead in vintage card auctions. I'm a early 70's buyer of high end cards PSA 9's. For auctions, I exclusively use PWCC. If there is PSA 9 from 71-76, and it's on PWCC, I can assure you the price will be at least VCP average. Pending a catastrophic collapse of the economy or f-up by PSA, these cards are only going to go up.
I do look at other auctions, but can't seem to pull the trigger. Feels snake oily.
jb
<< <i>I do look at other auctions, but can't seem to pull the trigger. Feels snake oily. >>
I understand the obsession with PWCC, but there are still other people that run nice auction, with good clear scans of the cards. Mike Denero, Amerlegends, DSL, Steve Novella, even yours truly come to mind.
<< <i>If you are so tired, why are you reading this thread?? Go take a nap or something! >>
I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are so tired, why are you reading this thread?? Go take a nap or something! >>
I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
partial +1....i am also tired of this thread in general. Seems like there is one of these once a month. I enjoy the other topics forum members discuss...their personal collections, advice for rookies like me, etc.
<< <i>I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
So sorry...I'm one of the best...and I know it. Why hide it. I threw others that are good out there as well. And as far as this thread, nobody forces you to open it, or participate in it. You do that on your own accord. If you don't like the thread, then plain and simple, DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND DON'T PARTICIPATE!
<< <i>.i am also tired of this thread in general. Seems like there is one of these once a month. I enjoy the other topics forum members discuss...their personal collections, advice for rookies like me, etc. >>
Agreed. That's what I've been saying.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
So sorry...I'm one of the best...and I know it. Why hide it. I threw others that are good out there as well. And as far as this thread, nobody forces you to open it, or participate in it. You do that on your own accord. If you don't like the thread, then plain and simple, DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND DON'T PARTICIPATE! >>
why so much hate?
<< <i>
<< <i>I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
So sorry...I'm one of the best...and I know it. Why hide it. I threw others that are good out there as well. And as far as this thread, nobody forces you to open it, or participate in it. You do that on your own accord. If you don't like the thread, then plain and simple, DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND DON'T PARTICIPATE! >>
As usual, the point completely eludes you..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think what Meatloaf means is, your point would be more salient if you weren't always plugging your own auctions at the same time. >>
So sorry...I'm one of the best...and I know it. Why hide it. I threw others that are good out there as well. And as far as this thread, nobody forces you to open it, or participate in it. You do that on your own accord. If you don't like the thread, then plain and simple, DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND DON'T PARTICIPATE! >>
Bobby,
You really don't get it, do you?
The "best" allow others to proclaim as such. They don't have to keep trying to draw attention to themselves or boasting!
As I said this to you slightly less directly earlier this week; I am sure that you could contribute a lot more to this community in a positive
way if you could just find a way to get out of your own ego's way. So for once instead of getting all snooty and indignant with your usual
quick response why not fight the urge for the immature clever "comeback" reply?
You might be amazed at how much more positively you'd be viewed if you tried this kind of alternate approach.
Dave