. you could always make some youtube videos on counterfeit detection and put some effort into advertising them.
90%+ of the people i've worked with educating/sharing counterfeit info have been receptive and i will presume the ripples spread out from there.
you know the some of the clichés, "if you want to see change, be the change" - "what you do speaks so loudly, i cannot hear what you say"
all these millions being lost on counterfeits and i've still yet to see a decent detection book/guide. i've seen some but they aren't really worthy of mention.
Can anyone comment whether this is a known Modern counterfeit, or a Contemporary counterfeit?
Odds are that it is modern, but it does not show-off (to me, at least) the standard tells of modern craftsmanship.
The date is the most telling clue that it is fake, but if it was better executed, I may not be able to tell this is a counterfeit (from those pics).
Now, I ask if it is a contemporary counterfeit because there is at least one known Seated Dollar contemporary counterfeit dated '1840'. Although, that counterfeit is different from the one in the eBay listing.
the first red flag should be the "dent" in the liberty, the first wave of Asian counterfeit seated dollars were dated 1846 and were all easily identifiable by the dent, counterfeit detection should start with education .... educating ones self of what to look for. with all of the publicity that counterfeit Asian seated dollars have gotten in the last half dozen years, I would think everyone that was even contemplating buying a raw seated dollar (or trade dollar) would at the very least try and learn about the fakes,
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
lance, I seriously couldn't see investing the time into making any youtube videos, no one seems to bother looking at the information already available so it would be a waste of time.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< <i>lance, I seriously couldn't see investing the time into making any youtube videos, no one seems to bother looking at the information already available so it would be a waste of time. >>
i'd look! and as much info as i spread, i'm worth at least 20 people in ripple measurements. so that is a good start
don't you remember that whole when you sleep with someone, you're sleeping with everyone one they've slept with in health class? one of the first ripple connections that resonated with me. .
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
seriously ? you managed to miss all of the threads here and all of the articles in the numismatic publications about Asian counterfeits ? how is that even possible ?
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
1. Buy scale 2. Buy Red Book 3. Study weights and measures 4. Buy real coins from trusted source 5. Use Scale 6. Reference red book 7. Realize weights and measures 8 Study die characteristics and design 9. Submit to the experts 10.Exercise the brain before pulling trigger. 11.Do not drink and bid on eBay.
…. let me think, what other lessons have I learned.
Words like "porosity, pot metal, transference, copy, cast" They all go to metallurgy. It's a fun hobby, but one has to know "composition". Like a few of you musicians or other masters of their trades.
It's not easy. I did not even look at the link. I shall go now and see how my post relates to the subject, at hand.
<< <i>1. Buy scale 2. Buy Red Book 3. Study weights and measures 4. Buy real coins from trusted source 5. Use Scale 6. Reference red book 7. Realize weights and measures 8 Study die characteristics and design 9. Submit to the experts 10.Exercise the brain before pulling trigger. 11.Do not drink and bid on eBay.
…. let me think, what other lessons have I learned.
Words like "porosity, pot metal, transference, copy, cast" They all go to metallurgy. It's a fun hobby, but one has to know "composition". Like a few of you musicians or other masters of their trades.
It's not easy. I did not even look at the link. I shall go now and see how my post relates to the subject, at hand. >>
This is another example where simply learning what a rea American coin looks like can save you the trouble of getting involved with a piece of Chinese junk like this. The date is uneven and not close to the look of a genuine Seated dollar. All I had to do was look at that, and knew the piece was bogus, and since I'd seen an example of this same counterfiet at a FUN presentation that Beth Deisher gave, I knew its origins.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>1. Buy scale 2. Buy Red Book 3. Study weights and measures 4. Buy real coins from trusted source 5. Use Scale 6. Reference red book 7. Realize weights and measures 8 Study die characteristics and design 9. Submit to the experts 10.Exercise the brain before pulling trigger. 11.Do not drink and bid on eBay.
…. let me think, what other lessons have I learned.
Words like "porosity, pot metal, transference, copy, cast" They all go to metallurgy. It's a fun hobby, but one has to know "composition". Like a few of you musicians or other masters of their trades.
It's not easy. I did not even look at the link. I shall go now and see how my post relates to the subject, at hand. >>
You mention weighing the piece several times, but what do you do if the piece is in a counterfeit slab? Unless you know the weight of the slab you can't weigh the coin itself.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
the very first Asian counterfeits to come on the scene had the "dent" in liberty, when people caught on to those, they changed the date. chinese counterfeits wouldn't fool anyone that took even a few minutes to scrutinize them. how this thing has so many bids is mind boggling. I will stop short of saying that the winning bidder deserves to be stuck with it, but how far short, ive yet to decide. no rational excuse for even bidding on this unless the bidders don't have a clue what they are bidding on, have zero to none working knowledge of the series and if that's the case they should NOT be bidding at all.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< <i>seriously ? you managed to miss all of the threads here and all of the articles in the numismatic publications about Asian counterfeits ? how is that even possible ? >>
my question seems pretty straight forward
<< <i>i'd also like to know what information you group under "already available." >>
i asked to see if you would mention a source i.others didn't already know. for a moment i actually thought you would make a nice contribution but i don't blame you, i blame myself for believing you could/would do it. got my hopes up and with certain people, i simply know not to do that. thanks anyway. i even thought to myself, hmm this just might be the time to ask even though i knew better. .
<< <i>This is another example where simply learning what a rea American coin looks like can save you the trouble of getting involved with a piece of Chinese junk like this. The date is uneven and not close to the look of a genuine Seated dollar. All I had to do was look at that, and knew the piece was bogus, and since I'd seen an example of this same counterfiet at a FUN presentation that Beth Deisher gave, I knew its origins. >>
I don't trust myself to be good at spotting counterfeits, but you are right that the date is way off and is an immediate tell.
What I don't understand is folks bidding on these without during even the briefest research. Just looking at a couple Seated dollars would tell you there is something wrong. My only guess is they just blinded thinking they are going to get a great deal and don't think it through at all. There are not that many people I know that would spend that much money without doing a little research.
the information I group under "already available" is the barrage of warnings published in just about every numismatic publication, as well the river of warnings that people have posted here, sorry, I thought you were one of the brighter crayons in the box, if you truly have not been exposed to ANY of the information flooding the market in regards to counterfeit seated dollars, I will be more than happy to tutor you
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
here is a quick tutorial for anyone even contemplating buying raw seated dollars. first and foremost, if you aren't familiar with the series, you should study heritage archives, its free, learn what the digits in the date should look like. learn what dates have "in god we trust" above the eagle, learn what year the branch mints struck them. and once you've familiarized yourself with that, look for the telltale "dent" in LIBERTY, look for bubbles around the stars, look at the digits in the date, do they look abnormal ? do any numbers just not "look right" ? join the LSCC or at least wander on over to the seated liberty coin boards, and gather information, there is a section specific to seated dollars, learn about the proper number of reeds, the weight, it was much easier when ebay allowed the sale of fake coins, one could buy a few and study them, once you know the feel and look of a fake, they stick out like a zebra in a heard of horses, while I commend the efforts of those that fought to have ebay ban counterfeits, I believe it did more harm then good as it was much easier to keep up with what was out there when it was in the open.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
ebaybuyer
Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
Comments
Easy to understand.
What is the difficulty?
peacockcoins
you could always make some youtube videos on counterfeit detection and put some effort into advertising them.
90%+ of the people i've worked with educating/sharing counterfeit info have been receptive and i will presume the ripples spread out from there.
you know the some of the clichés, "if you want to see change, be the change" - "what you do speaks so loudly, i cannot hear what you say"
all these millions being lost on counterfeits and i've still yet to see a decent detection book/guide. i've seen some but they aren't really worthy of mention.
ok the gold book i have is a great exception.
.
Odds are that it is modern, but it does not show-off (to me, at least) the standard tells of modern craftsmanship.
The date is the most telling clue that it is fake, but if it was better executed, I may not be able to tell this is a counterfeit (from those pics).
Now, I ask if it is a contemporary counterfeit because there is at least one known Seated Dollar contemporary counterfeit dated '1840'.
Although, that counterfeit is different from the one in the eBay listing.
<< <i>lance, I seriously couldn't see investing the time into making any youtube videos, no one seems to bother looking at the information already available so it would be a waste of time. >>
i'd look! and as much info as i spread, i'm worth at least 20 people in ripple measurements. so that is a good start
don't you remember that whole when you sleep with someone, you're sleeping with everyone one they've slept with in health class? one of the first ripple connections that resonated with me.
.
<< <i>no one seems to bother looking at the information already available so it would be a waste of time. >>
. >>
i'd also like to know what information you group under "already available." i sure would like to see what i've potentially been missing. no bs!
i'm pretty good at figuring things out but nothing will ever compare to a good team effort imo.
.
2. Buy Red Book
3. Study weights and measures
4. Buy real coins from trusted source
5. Use Scale
6. Reference red book
7. Realize weights and measures
8 Study die characteristics and design
9. Submit to the experts
10.Exercise the brain before pulling trigger.
11.Do not drink and bid on eBay.
…. let me think, what other lessons have I learned.
Words like "porosity, pot metal, transference, copy, cast" They all go to metallurgy. It's a fun hobby, but one has to know "composition". Like a few of you musicians or other masters of their trades.
It's not easy. I did not even look at the link. I shall go now and see how my post relates to the subject, at hand.
<< <i>1. Buy scale
2. Buy Red Book
3. Study weights and measures
4. Buy real coins from trusted source
5. Use Scale
6. Reference red book
7. Realize weights and measures
8 Study die characteristics and design
9. Submit to the experts
10.Exercise the brain before pulling trigger.
11.Do not drink and bid on eBay.
…. let me think, what other lessons have I learned.
Words like "porosity, pot metal, transference, copy, cast" They all go to metallurgy. It's a fun hobby, but one has to know "composition". Like a few of you musicians or other masters of their trades.
It's not easy. I did not even look at the link. I shall go now and see how my post relates to the subject, at hand. >>
12. Enjoy the learning
<< <i>1. Buy scale
2. Buy Red Book
3. Study weights and measures
4. Buy real coins from trusted source
5. Use Scale
6. Reference red book
7. Realize weights and measures
8 Study die characteristics and design
9. Submit to the experts
10.Exercise the brain before pulling trigger.
11.Do not drink and bid on eBay.
…. let me think, what other lessons have I learned.
Words like "porosity, pot metal, transference, copy, cast" They all go to metallurgy. It's a fun hobby, but one has to know "composition". Like a few of you musicians or other masters of their trades.
It's not easy. I did not even look at the link. I shall go now and see how my post relates to the subject, at hand. >>
You mention weighing the piece several times, but what do you do if the piece is in a counterfeit slab? Unless you know the weight of the slab you can't weigh the coin itself.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>seriously ? you managed to miss all of the threads here and all of the articles in the numismatic publications about Asian counterfeits ? how is that even possible ? >>
my question seems pretty straight forward
<< <i>i'd also like to know what information you group under "already available." >>
i asked to see if you would mention a source i.others didn't already know. for a moment i actually thought you would make a nice contribution but i don't blame you, i blame myself for believing you could/would do it. got my hopes up and with certain people, i simply know not to do that. thanks anyway. i even thought to myself, hmm this just might be the time to ask even though i knew better.
.
<< <i>This is another example where simply learning what a rea American coin looks like can save you the trouble of getting involved with a piece of Chinese junk like this. The date is uneven and not close to the look of a genuine Seated dollar. All I had to do was look at that, and knew the piece was bogus, and since I'd seen an example of this same counterfiet at a FUN presentation that Beth Deisher gave, I knew its origins. >>
I don't trust myself to be good at spotting counterfeits, but you are right that the date is way off and is an immediate tell.
What I don't understand is folks bidding on these without during even the briefest research. Just looking at a couple Seated dollars would tell you there is something wrong. My only guess is they just blinded thinking they are going to get a great deal and don't think it through at all. There are not that many people I know that would spend that much money without doing a little research.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen