<< <i>Interesting question... The venue for an auction is not necessarily a retail setting. An auction price for a lot at closing is determined by those that participate and what they are willing to pay provided that there is no reserve. That ending price may not be retail or wholesale, but just a simple statement as to how much someone wants the lot. With respect to an auction, consider the lot and the participants. That combination can produce a vastly different outcome and that venue is just not the same as a retail setting. >>
I've been to plenty of auctions where attendance was mostly dealers or top end collectors. Very little went for retail. Rarely did I find myself bidding against a collector for what I wanted. It was almost always a dealer. And I've been to auctions where the dealers couldn't buy a lot because the auctioneer/auction sponsor shilled everything to the max to try and dump it on the retail rubes.
<<And I've been to auctions where the dealers couldn't buy a lot because the auctioneer/auction sponsor shilled everything to the max to try and dump it on the retail rubes.
However, a more interesting question would be "How do auction prices compare to retail prices?" And although the answer could vary if discussing specific types of coins, the answer is that auction prices (including the buyer's premium) tend to be lower than retail prices and higher than wholesale prices.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i><<And I've been to auctions where the dealers couldn't buy a lot because the auctioneer/auction sponsor shilled everything to the max to try and dump it on the retail rubes.
>>
+600 or so auctions attended. Some cheesey, to be sure. Pumping the bids. That's the auctioneer's job. To max out the consignor.
The small-timers only have a cursory idea of what they're selling. At a country auction 10+ years agi, I split, with MrE and two others, a lot described as "1843 $ 1/2 gold piece, brilliant uncirculated, prooflike surfaces. Estimated $1400.". We pushed another dealer to $57,500+J as it was a PF65CAM.The auctioneer was perplexed when other coins sold for 20 times estimate like four lots of 1853 A&R 50c MS64+-65, an 1832 QE MS66, 1877-CC 50c MS67, etc.
Major auctioneers always want the retail to buy.
The retail "rubes" have their own numbers ready. If they were trying to read the room and got a bit over-enthusiastic, so much for their due diligence and discipline. Internet bidding has changed this a lot with the majors.
Smaller auctions? More games for sure. Keep your hand down no matter what the auctioneer might say. You know enough to read the room. Be patient and only play the end-game. Mostly he'll think you're one of the rubes. Use it. Act hesitant and unknowing. You'll get your chance to bid.
edited to add: My The Numismatist article of Sept 2011 - "In Person and on the Internet", will give some insights into some auction practices from both sides of the podium based on 35 years of attendance. .
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Comments
<< <i>Interesting question... The venue for an auction is not necessarily a retail setting. An auction price for a lot at closing is determined by those that participate and what they are willing to pay provided that there is no reserve. That ending price may not be retail or wholesale, but just a simple statement as to how much someone wants the lot. With respect to an auction, consider the lot and the participants. That combination can produce a vastly different outcome and that venue is just not the same as a retail setting. >>
I've been to plenty of auctions where attendance was mostly dealers or top end collectors. Very little went for retail. Rarely did I find myself bidding against a collector for what I wanted. It was almost always a dealer.
And I've been to auctions where the dealers couldn't buy a lot because the auctioneer/auction sponsor shilled everything to the max to try and dump it on the retail rubes.
However, a more interesting question would be "How do auction prices compare to retail prices?" And although the answer could vary if discussing specific types of coins, the answer is that auction prices (including the buyer's premium) tend to be lower than retail prices and higher than wholesale prices.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i><<And I've been to auctions where the dealers couldn't buy a lot because the auctioneer/auction sponsor shilled everything to the max to try and dump it on the retail rubes.
+600 or so auctions attended. Some cheesey, to be sure. Pumping the bids. That's the auctioneer's job. To max out the consignor.
The small-timers only have a cursory idea of what they're selling. At a country auction 10+ years agi, I split, with MrE and two others, a lot described as "1843 $ 1/2 gold piece, brilliant uncirculated, prooflike surfaces. Estimated $1400.". We pushed another dealer to $57,500+J as it was a PF65CAM.The auctioneer was perplexed when other coins sold for 20 times estimate like four lots of 1853 A&R 50c MS64+-65, an 1832 QE MS66, 1877-CC 50c MS67, etc.
Major auctioneers always want the retail to buy.
The retail "rubes" have their own numbers ready. If they were trying to read the room and got a bit over-enthusiastic, so much for their due diligence and discipline. Internet bidding has changed this a lot with the majors.
Smaller auctions? More games for sure. Keep your hand down no matter what the auctioneer might say. You know enough to read the room. Be patient and only play the end-game. Mostly he'll think you're one of the rubes. Use it. Act hesitant and unknowing. You'll get your chance to bid.
edited to add: My The Numismatist article of Sept 2011 - "In Person and on the Internet", will give some insights into some auction practices from both sides of the podium based on 35 years of attendance. .