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Worst poppage of my life

MrVintageMrVintage Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I can't even describe my disappointment in this order. The 3 cards that were the most disappointing were the Henderson, the second Griffey, and the Strawberry. I have been sending cards in to PSA for a long time so I don't really feel like I made any rookie mistakes. I really thought the Stargell and Griffey's were 10's and I thought the Mauer and Henderson had an outside shot at 10's as well. To make matters worse this was day 13 on a 7 day turnaround. Oh the frustrations of the grading game.......lol

Order #20773474 / Submission #5414731
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type
1 1 22441421 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1976 TOPPS 270 WILLIE STARGELL Card (PSA 9 crackout)
2 1 22441422 NEAR MINT 7 1980 TOPPS 482 RICKEY HENDERSON Card (PSA 9 crackout)
3 1 22441423 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1915 CRACKER JACK 36 ED WALSH Card (PSA 4 crackout)
4 1 22441424 GEM MINT 10 1984 FLEER UPDATE U-27 ROGER CLEMENS Card (Raw card purchase)
5 1 22441425 GOOD 2 1955 TOPPS 124 HARMON KILLEBREW Card (Expected a 1 or 2)
6 1 22441426 POOR 1 1954 BOWMAN 65 MICKEY MANTLE Card (expected a 1)
7 1 22441427 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1990 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL 101T EMMITT SMITH Card (I have graded 50+ of these and expected a 9)
8 1 22441428 MINT 9 2002 BOWMAN CHROME GOLD 391 JOE MAUER GOLD REFRACTOR-AUTOGRAPH Card (BGS 9 crackout)
9 1 22441429 MINT 9 1989 UPPER DECK 1 KEN GRIFFEY JR. STAR ROOKIE Card (BGS 9.5 crackout w/ 4 9.5 subs)
9 2 22441430 EXCELLENT 5 1989 UPPER DECK 1 KEN GRIFFEY JR. STAR ROOKIE Card (BGS 9.5 crackout w/4 9.5 subs)
10 1 22441431 NEAR MINT 7 1983 TOPPS TRADED 108T DARRYL STRAWBERRY Card (BGS 9 crackout w/2 9.5s and 2 9's)
11 1 22441432 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1988 TOPPS 327 BO JACKSON Card (BGS 9 crackout)
11 2 22441433 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1988 TOPPS 327 BO JACKSON Card (BGS 9 crackout)
12 1 22441434 NEAR MINT 7 1972 TOPPS 79 RED SOX ROOKIES GARMAN/COOPER/FISK Card (GAI 8 crackout)
13 1 22441435 MINT 9 1991 PRO SET DESERT STORM 69 SADDAM HUSSEIN DESERT STORM Card (really expected a 10 on this one)
Total Items: 15
Date Received: 1/9/2014
Date Shipped: N/A
Order Status: OK

Comments

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    hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Took some guts to crack the Rickey.
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    grote15grote15 Posts: 29,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man, that's brutal. Two PSA 9s turn into 7s? Was there any damage during the crackout? You have my sympathies.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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    orioles93orioles93 Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Got a nice Clemens. That's a good $400-500.
    What I Collect:

    PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 77.97% Complete)


    PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 19.26% Complete)


    PSA Basketball HOF Players Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 6.02% Complete)
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    MrVintageMrVintage Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭
    No damage during cracking them. The Henderson and the Griffey were both head scatchers image. The Henderson is very well centered with sharp corners. This is the 4th time I have subbed the Ed walsh and it has been graded all 3 times previously. I must have gotten the toughest grader there because every card that was previously graded was downgraded except for the Maurer gold refractor auto. Most of these will be subbed again so hopefully I will get somebody different this time because I really disagree with most of these grades. Heck even they previously disagreed with most of them......lol
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    IlovecardsIlovecards Posts: 271 ✭


    << <i>I can't even describe my disappointment in this order. The 3 cards that were the most disappointing were the Henderson, the second Griffey, and the Strawberry. I have been sending cards in to PSA for a long time so I don't really feel like I made any rookie mistakes. I really thought the Stargell and Griffey's were 10's and I thought the Mauer and Henderson had an outside shot at 10's as well. To make matters worse this was day 13 on a 7 day turnaround. Oh the frustrations of the grading game.......lol

    Order #20773474 / Submission #5414731
    Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type
    1 1 22441421 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1976 TOPPS 270 WILLIE STARGELL Card (PSA 9 crackout)
    2 1 22441422 NEAR MINT 7 1980 TOPPS 482 RICKEY HENDERSON Card (PSA 9 crackout)
    3 1 22441423 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1915 CRACKER JACK 36 ED WALSH Card (PSA 4 crackout)
    4 1 22441424 GEM MINT 10 1984 FLEER UPDATE U-27 ROGER CLEMENS Card (Raw card purchase)
    5 1 22441425 GOOD 2 1955 TOPPS 124 HARMON KILLEBREW Card (Expected a 1 or 2)
    6 1 22441426 POOR 1 1954 BOWMAN 65 MICKEY MANTLE Card (expected a 1)
    7 1 22441427 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1990 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL 101T EMMITT SMITH Card (I have graded 50+ of these and expected a 9)
    8 1 22441428 MINT 9 2002 BOWMAN CHROME GOLD 391 JOE MAUER GOLD REFRACTOR-AUTOGRAPH Card (BGS 9 crackout)
    9 1 22441429 MINT 9 1989 UPPER DECK 1 KEN GRIFFEY JR. STAR ROOKIE Card (BGS 9.5 crackout w/ 4 9.5 subs)
    9 2 22441430 EXCELLENT 5 1989 UPPER DECK 1 KEN GRIFFEY JR. STAR ROOKIE Card (BGS 9.5 crackout w/4 9.5 subs)
    10 1 22441431 NEAR MINT 7 1983 TOPPS TRADED 108T DARRYL STRAWBERRY Card (BGS 9 crackout w/2 9.5s and 2 9's)
    11 1 22441432 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1988 TOPPS 327 BO JACKSON Card (BGS 9 crackout)
    11 2 22441433 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1988 TOPPS 327 BO JACKSON Card (BGS 9 crackout)
    12 1 22441434 NEAR MINT 7 1972 TOPPS 79 RED SOX ROOKIES GARMAN/COOPER/FISK Card (GAI 8 crackout)
    13 1 22441435 MINT 9 1991 PRO SET DESERT STORM 69 SADDAM HUSSEIN DESERT STORM Card (really expected a 10 on this one)
    Total Items: 15
    Date Received: 1/9/2014
    Date Shipped: N/A
    Order Status: OK >>



    seems like you got the grader from hell

    did PSA damage your cards before grading ?

    has happened to me
    I edit almost all my posts because my auto correct is crazy !
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    MrVintageMrVintage Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭
    I don't have the cards in hand yet because they just popped this afternoon so I haven't had a chance to look them over yet. I have been subbing cards with them for 10 years and I have never had them damage anything before so I have no reason to believe that is the case here. Probably just a really tough grader image
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    ClockworkAngelClockworkAngel Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭
    I really don't see the benefit of cracking PSA graded cards just to send in again, unless you just don't want to pay the extra money it costs for a review. My experiencer has been that PSA will bump a card on a review about as likely as it would bump it if you cracked it open.

    I definitely agree with cracking all the others...and not totally shocking that BGS graded everything higher than PSA. BGS is too easy and it's hurting their reputations.

    But to take a Griffey 9.5 and PSA making it a 5 is just strange. There's obviously something major that is not eask to see...like fading or a wet spot?
    The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase
    TheClockworkAngelCollection
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    maddux69maddux69 Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Something that many may not realize is that they pay special attention to the hologram on the back. At times, you will see a small indentation on the 89 UD Griffeys. I had to learn this lesson the hard way. image
    Jason

    eBay Store


    Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
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    MrVintageMrVintage Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭
    Yeah I looked at the holograms on the back and they looked good to me. I can't wait to get these back in hand to examine them.
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    Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bummer. The clemens will have to pay for the regrades..
    Mike
    Bosox1976
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    FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've had subs that were as bad as the one you've described. I have become more certain of the true potential of my raw cards or crack outs over the years, so it doesn't bother me as much as it did in the beginning. In the end, it is an educated guess at best when playing the crack out game and you'd better be prepared to be wrong many more times than you are right. My two cents.

    -Nathanael
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    vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    That was tough to read, sorry. Do you have before pics?
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    MeatloafMeatloaf Posts: 1,308
    Kick in the nuts!
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    PasadenaMudSlidePasadenaMudSlide Posts: 732
    Ouch. Crack and resub?
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    BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 2,904 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ouch. Crack and resub? >>



    That's what got him here in the first place. Can't help but think that no matter how carefully you select cards to submit, it ultimately comes down to who they place them in front of.
    Daniel
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    hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
    IMO very bad idea to crack a PSA 9 Rickey rc in hopes of a 10. Tens on that card are so infrequent (virtually impossible) there's a far greater chance of having it downgraded like yours was or getting an EOT. Good luck getting your 9 back on that one.
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    mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    Sorry about your poopage.

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    mattinglymint23mattinglymint23 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭
    my condolences - this is a craps game - no two ways about it

    crack outs are going to be tougher as we go along - i just got my first look at a new psa case - spent 20 mins trying to find the seam to insert my thin flat head scre driver - still havent found the seam...
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    addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭✭
    Send the (5) 89 UD Griffey back to BGS and let us know what it gets. Very curious. I had a (9) 84 Elway do a similar thing.
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    MrVintageMrVintage Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭


    << <i>IMO very bad idea to crack a PSA 9 Rickey rc in hopes of a 10. Tens on that card are so infrequent (virtually impossible) there's a far greater chance of having it downgraded like yours was or getting an EOT. Good luck getting your 9 back on that one. >>



    Oh yeah I knew it was a long shot to get a 10 on the Rickey, but I didn't feel that a card that I felt was a strong enough 9 to crack would come back a 7 either. Going from a 9 to a 7 is pretty strange to me. I have cracked and subbed hundreds of cards with both PSA and BGS and I have never had any card upgrade or downgrade more than 1 full grade. I had 3 cards do that on this order.
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    hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>IMO very bad idea to crack a PSA 9 Rickey rc in hopes of a 10. Tens on that card are so infrequent (virtually impossible) there's a far greater chance of having it downgraded like yours was or getting an EOT. Good luck getting your 9 back on that one. >>



    Oh yeah I knew it was a long shot to get a 10 on the Rickey, but I didn't feel that a card that I felt was a strong enough 9 to crack would come back a 7 either. Going from a 9 to a 7 is pretty strange to me. I have cracked and subbed hundreds of cards with both PSA and BGS and I have never had any card upgrade or downgrade more than 1 full grade. I had 3 cards do that on this order. >>



    9 to 8 is typical especially on cards with some renown, but 9 to 7 is troubling. I really hope you get another 9. It can happen - I just had a Tim Duncan rookie go from 8 to a 10.
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    handymanhandyman Posts: 5,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sucks what happend.
    "
    Oh yeah I knew it was a long shot to get a 10 on the Rickey, but I didn't feel that a card that I felt was a strong enough 9 to crack would come back a 7 either. Going from a 9 to a 7 is pretty strange to me. I have cracked and subbed hundreds of cards with both PSA and BGS and I have never had any card upgrade or downgrade more than 1 full grade. I had 3 cards do that on this order"

    They might have seen a slight surface bend or something. That is the only thing I can think of for a 9 Mint looking card to get a straight 7.
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    bxbbxb Posts: 805 ✭✭
    Cracking out valuable 9s to get the 10 is risky, too much downside, higher chance of a downgrade than an upgrade.

    Better off submitting card in holder for a review.

    Capecards
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    RyanAdmirerRyanAdmirer Posts: 632 ✭✭
    And I thought some of my subs were disappointing! In just looking at what went in VS what came back I'd be sick if that were me....and am a little sick even though it wasn't me. Sorry for your losses there.
    I'm a big Nolan Ryan fan OK???!!!
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    sportscardstopsportscardstop Posts: 526 ✭✭✭
    It's funny to read the difference in responses on this board and the blowout board to the same thread. Everyone here feels bad for the guy ( I do too). Over on blowout, people say: he ruins the hobby by trying to make money, that's karma for cracking, why would you ever crack a bgs 9.5, way to ruin the cards, etc.

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    MrVintageMrVintage Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭
    Yeah its kinda like a lot of people think that I am the first and only person to ever crack and submit cards to try and get better grades.
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    hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Yeah its kinda like a lot of people think that I am the first and only person to ever crack and submit cards to try and get better grades. >>



    Far from it. But more guts than I with the Rickey, I applaud that. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Also further strengthens how much of a crapshoot TPG really is.
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    Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's funny to read the difference in responses on this board and the blowout board to the same thread. Everyone here feels bad for the guy ( I do too). Over on blowout, people say: he ruins the hobby by trying to make money, that's karma for cracking, why would you ever crack a bgs 9.5, way to ruin the cards, etc. >>




    I just read that thread. What a bunch of losers.


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    swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭
    grader 224 - I feel your pain...


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
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    MrVintageMrVintage Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭
    Yeah I was just venting a little about my disappointment in my grades and man oh man some people really took offense that I didn't just accept the grades that I had even though I thought they deserved better. The way some of them responded you would think it was their money that I lost.....LOL
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    maddux69maddux69 Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's funny to read the difference in responses on this board and the blowout board to the same thread. Everyone here feels bad for the guy ( I do too). Over on blowout, people say: he ruins the hobby by trying to make money, that's karma for cracking, why would you ever crack a bgs 9.5, way to ruin the cards, etc. >>



    It seems that the difference between members of the CU board and members on blowout cards is night and day. Many are truly modern collectors, and it seems that they experience collecting on a totally different level and thus a different mindset when it comes to TPGs.
    Jason

    eBay Store


    Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
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    Big80sBig80s Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭


    << <i>grader 224 - I feel your pain... >>



    I just got a sub back from grader 224, as well. He beat me up too! A new G.O.D?
    Let's Rip It: PackGeek.com
    Jeff
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    cardbendercardbender Posts: 1,831 ✭✭
    Sorry about your grades...... how does a Henderson RC go from a PSA 9 to a PSA 7, when you thought it might 10?!
    With half grades, that's like a four grade drop!!!! Please post the Henderson 7 when you receive back so we can see
    this travesty.
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    frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow. I feel your pain. I would resub that Rickey until you at least get your 9 back.

    By the way, what is TPG?

    Shane

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    grote15grote15 Posts: 29,535 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>grader 224 - I feel your pain... >>



    I just got a sub back from grader 224, as well. He beat me up too! A new G.O.D? >>



    Jeff, the cert #s are designated in chronological and sequential order based on loggage date.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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    PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,712 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>



    Jeff, the cert #s are designated in chronological and sequential order based on loggage date. >>



    But they're not sequential over all time, right? There are cert #'s way higher than ones I'm getting back now.
    My 1972 Baseball and Wacky Pack Registry Sets
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    grote15grote15 Posts: 29,535 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>



    Jeff, the cert #s are designated in chronological and sequential order based on loggage date. >>



    But they're not sequential over all time, right? There are cert #'s way higher than ones I'm getting back now. >>



    They have been sequential for the past few years at least, since the cert numbers started with 140XXX, IIRC. it goes by loggage date though, not poppage date, so that would explain why you see higher cert numbers than your CC special cards.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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    PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,712 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've always found the order of cert #'s confusing, because I'll always see old flips like this one, with higher than the current cert #'s:

    image
    My 1972 Baseball and Wacky Pack Registry Sets
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    LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>By the way, what is TPG? >>


    I believe it's Third-Party Grader/Grading.
    Who is the Golf Card Guy?
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    grote15grote15 Posts: 29,535 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I've always found the order of cert #'s confusing, because I'll always see old flips like this one, with higher than the current cert #'s:

    image >>



    They used to be more random. And submitters like 4SC and DSL even had their own cert sequence numbers. But they have been fairly consistent since they started assigning all cert numbers sequentially a few years back,
    The card you scanned was graded pre half grade scale, as psa lowered the position of the numerical grade to mark half grade implementation.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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    TishashereeTishasheree Posts: 85


    << <i>

    << <i>grader 224 - I feel your pain... >>



    I just got a sub back from grader 224, as well. He beat me up too! A new G.O.D? >>



    How can you tell who graded your cards?
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    BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>grader 224 - I feel your pain... >>



    I just got a sub back from grader 224, as well. He beat me up too! A new G.O.D? >>



    Jeff, the cert #s are designated in chronological and sequential order based on loggage date. >>



    Hi Tim,

    Has this been confirmed by PSA? I was wondering if this might be the case, but I'm not 100% sure.
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    grote15grote15 Posts: 29,535 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>grader 224 - I feel your pain... >>



    I just got a sub back from grader 224, as well. He beat me up too! A new G.O.D? >>



    Jeff, the cert #s are designated in chronological and sequential order based on loggage date. >>



    Hi Tim,

    Has this been confirmed by PSA? I was wondering if this might be the case, but I'm not 100% sure. >>



    Hi Guy,

    Yes, a couple years back, when there was some similar speculation about cert numbers having any relevance to the grader.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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    MrVintageMrVintage Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭
    A lot of good posts on this topic. There are some that I agree with and others I don't necessarily agree with, but they made me think about things from others perspective. For me trying to understand others views and learn from them are important aspects of being a member here so thanks everyone for your input. I know that discussions like this happen on here all the time where people are complaining about their grades or how long it takes to get them, but let me be perfectly clear that I don't feel any ill will towards anyone because I realize that grading is subjective and even though I don't agree with a few of my grades I will try again because above all I enjoy submitting cards and trying to pop those 10's. Just a bump in the road for me as far as I am concerned.
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    cardsnbeadscardsnbeads Posts: 870
    You took a $300- $400 and made it a $30-$40 . I hope you can get a 9 again on it. 10s on Henderson are pretty darn rare, you should have been happy with a 9 . Henderson in a 9 is a pretty sweet card .
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    swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>grader 224 - I feel your pain... >>



    I just got a sub back from grader 224, as well. He beat me up too! A new G.O.D? >>



    Jeff, the cert #s are designated in chronological and sequential order based on loggage date. >>



    Hi Tim,

    Has this been confirmed by PSA? I was wondering if this might be the case, but I'm not 100% sure. >>



    Yes, specifically by Carol...

    The thread was from 2008 and it was titled... PSA cert numbers


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
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