Home Precious Metals

What is a fair "show" price for $20 Libs PCGS UNC cleaned.

Thank you for the help.



Comments

  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    APMEX sells cleaned $20 Libs for around $1370. Link. At today's prices these contain about $1,207 in gold, so they're asking for a $163 premium over melt. Yours might be nicer than what APMEX is offering since yours are all UNCs. Also yours are in PCGS plastic, and APMEX's are raw, and that's a nice plus.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    Thank you for the link SecondRepublic. Their buy price is a bit over spot so that is a good sign.
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This is not an offer to sell.

    Will be attending (but not setting up) at the Tucson show next week which is a decent sized venue.

    These are worth fairly close to melt, but should bring a small premium I believe.

    What offers do you think I could expect? >>



    thats the worst show in america, u be lucky if they offer 1200...
    now i know u r going, that would be the only reason i would go..to meet u, otherwise a waste of time...
    keceph `anah
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>thats the worst show in america >>



    Really??? What makes it so bad?? I have been to small shows, big shows etc... but usually found them all to be interesting to some extent... Never heard a condemnation like that before.... please elaborate.... Cheers, RickO
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>thats the worst show in america >>



    Really??? What makes it so bad?? I have been to small shows, big shows etc... but usually found them all to be interesting to some extent... Never heard a condemnation like that before.... please elaborate.... Cheers, RickO >>



    I don't know Rawteam, but his response may be in regard to expected offers on gold which was the question.

    He may be right as my local go to guy that I know fairly well only offered a touch less than spot.

    Probably leave them at the bank and just go to try to buy some Morgans.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stick them in the mail to Rarcoa or Heritage if you want a fair price.....esp. if gold can hold the $1250 level this upcoming week.

    A lot of the local show dealers will buy cheap enough to ship them to someone like Heritage. As I see this process work, the local show dealer pays less than the wandering major gold middleman on the floor, who then flips them
    to Heritage or Rarcoa....2 in between buyers. I'd expect a Heritage to pay anything from $1250-$1325 for cleaned uncs....depending on the level of cleaning (bad cleaning and the coin is jewelry grade at net VF or lower....
    very minor cleaning would be net AU). They're working on a $60 buy/sell spread (4.5-5%) regardless of what the net grade is. And I'd not be surprised if you get offered spot for your cleaned uncs from the local guys. The
    big boyz probably loaded up at the FUN show. If they did, they might not be buying much for a few days to weeks. I'd have to think a lot of sellers would crack any lightly cleaned uncs and try to get an extra $50 for them. The
    PCGS genuine/cleaned holders are not helping any imo. Over the phone the big guys will only offer you jewelry price level w/o seeing them. And I see no reason for them to up the offer even when they do see them.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • ranshdowranshdow Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭✭
    Other than at a show, have any non-dealers had luck selling raw $20 Libs to Heritage over the phone?
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,296 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fair is what you get from going table to table. And there, you will find fairer and fairest.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Other than at a show, have any non-dealers had luck selling raw $20 Libs to Heritage over the phone? >>




    Have any non-dealers here been UNABLE to sell raw $20 Libs over the phone to Heritage, Rarcoa, and other leading bullion dealers who post daily bid/ask prices on raw $20's?

    Understood, they'd have to look at them before finalizing the price. But, the spreads between XF to AU circ $20's is pretty minimal ($15-$20 per coin). Not exactly enough of a spread to make a killing on.
    In fact, if you sold those coins sight-seen to most of your local guys, you'd lose that $15-$20/coin and probably more. They'd probably also be extra picky on what coins were problem free. And if you don't
    trust anyone, then buy them already slabbed in the first place.

    Be careful about going from table to table to table to get the "fairest" price. Quite often the dealers that made the earliest "fairer" offers won't want those coins after you've shopped them around the entire bourse floor
    and they turned out to be the highest buyers. Many offers cease to exist once you walk away from the dealer's table. There's fair and fairer. When you want to get the "fairest" you're often the pig that gets nothing.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,083 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Stick them in the mail to Rarcoa or Heritage if you want a fair price.....esp. if gold can hold the $1250 level this upcoming week.

    A lot of the local show dealers will buy cheap enough to ship them to someone like Heritage. As I see this process work, the local show dealer pays less than the wandering major gold middleman on the floor, who then flips them
    to Heritage or Rarcoa....2 in between buyers. I'd expect a Heritage to pay anything from $1250-$1325 for cleaned uncs....depending on the level of cleaning (bad cleaning and the coin is jewelry grade at net VF or lower....
    very minor cleaning would be net AU). They're working on a $60 buy/sell spread (4.5-5%) regardless of what the net grade is. And I'd not be surprised if you get offered spot for your cleaned uncs from the local guys. The
    big boyz probably loaded up at the FUN show. If they did, they might not be buying much for a few days to weeks. I'd have to think a lot of sellers would crack any lightly cleaned uncs and try to get an extra $50 for them. The
    PCGS genuine/cleaned holders are not helping any imo. Over the phone the big guys will only offer you jewelry price level w/o seeing them. And I see no reason for them to up the offer even when they do see them. >>



    Do these things ever find a home or are they sold in circular fashion from wholesaler to wholesaler to someone to somebody else?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do these things ever find a home or are they sold in circular fashion from wholesaler to wholesaler to someone to somebody else?

    They are probably in constant motion from dealer to speculator to dealer to speculator to dealer, etc, etc....just pretty old gold. But then again, the same is probably true of most common date slabbed MS61-65 Saints too.
    And if you think about it, 90% of the coin market is probably on a similar, though longer speculative cycle where little stays put for long periods of time. Does the ex-Legend PF64 1913 Lib Nickel ever find a home any more?
    Possibly not. In the old days they would stay off the market for decades at a time in a major collection. It probably has to disappear for 10-15 years along with all the other ones to remind everyone that they are
    pretty rare....lol.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,083 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do these things ever find a home or are they sold in circular fashion from wholesaler to wholesaler to someone to somebody else?

    They are probably in constant motion from dealer to speculator to dealer to speculator to dealer, etc, etc....just pretty old gold. But then again, the same is probably true of most common date slabbed MS61-65 Saints too.
    And if you think about it, 90% of the coin market is probably on a similar, though longer speculative cycle where little stays put for long periods of time. Does the ex-Legend PF64 1913 Lib Nickel ever find a home any more?
    Possibly not. In the old days they would stay off the market for decades at a time in a major collection. It probably has to disappear for 10-15 years along with all the other ones to remind everyone that they are
    pretty rare....lol. >>



    What percentage of these transactions would you say involves someone who is selling at a loss?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    Thank you, Roadrunner. Heritage had sent me wholesale buy/sell pricing a few months ago. I asked them to resend the info as I could not locate it on the site. Before Ebay drove up selling fees, that would have been an easy outlet. But now with 10% in total costs, forget it.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What percentage of these transactions would you say involves someone who is selling at a loss?

    Probably less than 40% since I'd venture most of these transactions are in larger volumes (5, 10, 20 pcs or more) with each dealer getting a little +cut for their efforts. The next speculator/investor who sits on them
    for a while will eventually sell. And then those will once again churn through multiple dealers until finding another "retail" baby sitter. I'd guess 20-30% of these transactions are losses. But certainly the time frame has
    a lot to do with it (ie 2009-2011 vs. say 2012-2013.....in the latter time frame the amount of losses might have only been 10-20%).
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
Sign In or Register to comment.