Maddux, Glavine and Thomas in HOF

EchoCanyon

!

jeffcbay

Biggio just barely missed it...

coachnip13

Ouch, Biggio needed 429 votes, got 427.

Bravesfan007

Woot woot! Maddux got 97.2%. 16 people didn't vote for him. WHAT?!? and Biggio for 74.8%. That is rough, but he'll get in soon.

bcubs

It's a complete joke that a guy with 3,000 hits has been left out not once, but twice. Biggio should be in, period.

hyperchipper09

Piazza and Biggio next year should make it.

Dnice

It's a complete joke that a guy with 3,000 hits has been left out not once, but twice. Biggio should be in, period.

+1000

Its insulting actually. Everyone else but Rose and Palmero are in except for these 2 which is for obvious reasons.

VitoCo1972

<< <i>It's a complete joke that a guy with 3,000 hits has been left out not once, but twice. Biggio should be in, period.

+1000

Its insulting actually. Everyone else but Rose and Palmero are in except for these 2 which is for obvious reasons. >>



Disagree. When was he ever a Top 5 player in the game for a 4-5 year stretch? It's a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Stats.

I must have forgotten every time ESPN had to break in to the game I was watching to show me those memorable Craig Biggio at-bats.

grote15

Piazza should be in.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>Piazza and Biggio next year should make it. >>



Here's the 1st year eligibles for next year:

Ron Villone
Alan Embree
Julian Tavarez
Braden Looper
David Weathers
Eddie Guardado
B.J. Ryan
Tony Clark
Joe Crede
Paul Byrd
Troy Percival
Rich Aurilia
Mark Loretta
Jermaine Dye
Kelvim Escobar
Cliff Floyd
Jarrod Washburn
Jason Schmidt
Tom Gordon
Darin Erstad
Carlos Delgado
Nomar Garciaparra
Brian Giles
Gary Sheffield
John Smoltz
Pedro Martinez
Randy Johnson

Randy Johnson is probably the only sure bet out of that class, so some holdovers should have a good chance.

Bravesfan007

Smoltz, Johnson, and Biggio get in next year. Maybe Pedro.

addicted2ebay

<< <i>

<< <i>Piazza and Biggio next year should make it. >>



Here's the 1st year eligibles for next year:

Ron Villone
Alan Embree
Julian Tavarez
Braden Looper
David Weathers
Eddie Guardado
B.J. Ryan
Tony Clark
Joe Crede
Paul Byrd
Troy Percival
Rich Aurilia
Mark Loretta
Jermaine Dye
Kelvim Escobar
Cliff Floyd
Jarrod Washburn
Jason Schmidt
Tom Gordon
Darin Erstad
Carlos Delgado
Nomar Garciaparra
Brian Giles
Gary Sheffield
John Smoltz
Pedro Martinez
Randy Johnson

Randy Johnson is probably the only sure bet out of that class, so some holdovers should have a good chance. >>



I could also see Martinez & Smoltz getting in.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>Disagree. When was he ever a Top 5 player in the game for a 4-5 year stretch? It's a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Stats. >>


After reading the analysis of several Hall voters recently, it seems many of them treat it as a Hall of Stats.

Bravesfan007

I can't see Piazza getting in next year. He only got 57%. Still has a lot of support to get.

gosteelers

Are you guys joking about Pedro? He's a LOCK next year...

EchoCanyon

Palmeiro is off the ballot for good -- only got 4.4%

Downtown1974

Man...I feel old when I think back and remember pulling these rookies out of packs. Now they're retired and in the hall.
Where does the time go?

Congrats inductees!!!

bcubs

<< <i>

<< <i>It's a complete joke that a guy with 3,000 hits has been left out not once, but twice. Biggio should be in, period.

+1000

Its insulting actually. Everyone else but Rose and Palmero are in except for these 2 which is for obvious reasons. >>



Disagree. When was he ever a Top 5 player in the game for a 4-5 year stretch? It's a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Stats.

I must have forgotten every time ESPN had to break in to the game I was watching to show me those memorable Craig Biggio at-bats. >>



I'll agree he was probably not a top 5 player for a stretch of 4-5 years but to say stats are not the driving force behind someone being in the Hall of Fame is an uneducated position to take. If a guy makes it on ESPN frequently and gets media coverage that's a qualifier?

mygotta

All very deserving in my opinion.

Bravesfan007

<< <i>Are you guys joking about Pedro? He's a LOCK next year... >>



Agreed! I was wrong, Piazza got 62%

Stooge

<< <i>Smoltz, Johnson, and Biggio get in next year. Maybe Pedro. >>

grote15

Pedro should absolutely be a first ballot HOFer.

Ironmanfan

<< <i>Piazza should be in. >>



back acne

IMF

sportscardstop

I don't know what bothers me more. The fact that 16 people didn't think Greg Maddux was Hall of Fame worthy....or the fact that people thought Jacque Jones and JT Snow were worthy of the Hall of Fame.

grote15

<< <i>

<< <i>Piazza should be in. >>



back acne

IMF >>



Guilty until proven innocent?

hyperchipper09

Piazza's an obvious Hall of Famer. That's not even a discussion. There's no intelligent argument against Piazza, except for "whispers".
Honestly there are times when I think the best thing that could happen to Baseball would be for a Frank Thomas or Griffey Jr to be implicated or found guilty of PED use. Maybe even a Jeter, Rivera. I like all those guys, they are looked at as sacred cows more so than Clemens, Bonds, Palmeiro(guys who for various reasons were never held to their level anyway). It would end all of the sanctimonious BS.
More people juiced and used than we will ever know. There are guys in the Hall now like Fisk, Ryan, others who should have serious questions about their careers but do not. Or are considered "untouchable".
What a joke.

orioles93

<< <i>Piazza's an obvious Hall of Famer. That's not even a discussion. There's no intelligent argument against Piazza, except for "whispers".
Honestly there are times when I think the best thing that could happen to Baseball would be for a Frank Thomas or Griffey Jr to be implicated or found guilty of PED use. Maybe even a Jeter, Rivera. I like all those guys, they are looked at as sacred cows more so than Clemens, Bonds, Palmeiro(guys who for various reasons were never held to their level anyway). It would end all of the sanctimonious BS.
More people juiced and used than we will ever know. There are guys in the Hall now like Fisk, Ryan, others who should have serious questions about their careers but do not. Or are considered "untouchable".
What a joke. >>



I think its a joke that steroid guys are kept out of a place that is full of drunks, womanizers, racists, kkk members, bigots, amphetamine users, cheats, drug users, etc. I think steroids are a minor issue compared to what some hall of famers did in their lifetimes.

EchoCanyon

<< <i>I can't see Piazza getting in next year. He only got 57%. Still has a lot of support to get. >>



That was last year. This year he got 62%.

grote15

<< <i>Piazza's an obvious Hall of Famer. That's not even a discussion. There's no intelligent argument against Piazza, except for "whispers".
Honestly there are times when I think the best thing that could happen to Baseball would be for a Frank Thomas or Griffey Jr to be implicated or found guilty of PED use. Maybe even a Jeter, Rivera. I like all those guys, they are looked at as sacred cows more so than Clemens, Bonds, Palmeiro(guys who for various reasons were never held to their level anyway). It would end all of the sanctimonious BS.
More people juiced and used than we will ever know. There are guys in the Hall now like Fisk, Ryan, others who should have serious questions about their careers but do not. Or are considered "untouchable".
What a joke. >>



+1

No one can be categorized as truly "clean," from this era, including Griffey, Thomas, Biggio, Bagwell or anyone else.

Bravesfan007

<< <i>

<< <i>Piazza's an obvious Hall of Famer. That's not even a discussion. There's no intelligent argument against Piazza, except for "whispers".
Honestly there are times when I think the best thing that could happen to Baseball would be for a Frank Thomas or Griffey Jr to be implicated or found guilty of PED use. Maybe even a Jeter, Rivera. I like all those guys, they are looked at as sacred cows more so than Clemens, Bonds, Palmeiro(guys who for various reasons were never held to their level anyway). It would end all of the sanctimonious BS.
More people juiced and used than we will ever know. There are guys in the Hall now like Fisk, Ryan, others who should have serious questions about their careers but do not. Or are considered "untouchable".
What a joke. >>



I think its a joke that steroid guys are kept out of a place that is full of drunks, womanizers, racists, kkk members, bigots, amphetamine users, etc. I think steroids are a minor issue compared to what some hall of famers did in their lifetimes. >>



Imagine Ty Cobb with modern media coverage

orioles93

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Piazza's an obvious Hall of Famer. That's not even a discussion. There's no intelligent argument against Piazza, except for "whispers".
Honestly there are times when I think the best thing that could happen to Baseball would be for a Frank Thomas or Griffey Jr to be implicated or found guilty of PED use. Maybe even a Jeter, Rivera. I like all those guys, they are looked at as sacred cows more so than Clemens, Bonds, Palmeiro(guys who for various reasons were never held to their level anyway). It would end all of the sanctimonious BS.
More people juiced and used than we will ever know. There are guys in the Hall now like Fisk, Ryan, others who should have serious questions about their careers but do not. Or are considered "untouchable".
What a joke. >>



I think its a joke that steroid guys are kept out of a place that is full of drunks, womanizers, racists, kkk members, bigots, amphetamine users, etc. I think steroids are a minor issue compared to what some hall of famers did in their lifetimes. >>



Imagine Ty Cobb with modern media coverage >>



Cobb was a great player, but a truly despicable person. Id rather see a steroid user get elected than a racist like Cobb.

Nathaniel1960

Let's talk 1991 Upper Deck Final Update sets. You can get them for a buck at shows, and its got Pedro's XRC. Anyone see room for this XRC to move upwards? Thome is in there too, along with Pudge.

NVbaseball

<< <i>Disagree. When was he ever a Top 5 player in the game for a 4-5 year stretch? It's a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Stats. >>



From 1993 to 99 there weren't many more than five players better. Bonds, Griffey, Thomas, Bagwell, Piazza (though even Thomas slumped slightly in 98 and 99 while Biggio had much higher defensive value), who else? For those years Kenny Lofton was one of the 10 best players in the league, but Biggio was definitely better, so putting him close to top five for a five to eight year stretch is absolutely correct

MiniDuff

I'd add Rickey and Puckett to the folks in already who I would not want to take a bet were clean either.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>Are you guys joking about Pedro? He's a LOCK next year... >>


I'm not saying he or Smoltz aren't getting in next year, but I think Johnson is the only lock with 90%+ votes of the FYEs.

lahmejoon

<< <i>Palmeiro is off the ballot for good -- only got 4.4% >>



pointing finger...."I am NOT getting in. PERIOD."

WalterSobchak

Piazza was almost as much of a liability defensively as he was an asset offensively. That probably hurt him.

I think Pedro, Smoltz, Unit, and Biggio get in next year.

6fan

<<

<< It's a complete joke that a guy with 3,000 hits has been left out not once, but twice. Biggio should be in, period.

+1000

Its insulting actually. Everyone else but Rose and Palmero are in except for these 2 which is for obvious reasons. >>



Disagree. When was he ever a Top 5 player in the game for a 4-5 year stretch? It's a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Stats.

I must have forgotten every time ESPN had to break in to the game I was watching to show me those memorable Craig Biggio at-bats. >>



I'll agree he was probably not a top 5 player for a stretch of 4-5 years but to say stats are not the driving force behind someone being in the Hall of Fame is an uneducated position to take. If a guy makes it on ESPN frequently and gets media coverage that's a qualifier?

I actually heard a write on MLB radio yesterday (Marty Noble) say that he believed Biggio did PED's, and that 12 or so of the 20 writer cronies he discussed his vote with also believed that Biggio did PED's. Mr. Noble said none of the 12 guys that believed Biggio did PED's voted for Biggio. I have never heard Biggio tied to PED's myself, and you don't see the stat spikes with Biggio that you would expect to see. As for the merits of his stats. He has 3060 hits. Thats all the merits he needs. There are players that are currently in the HOF that don't have the stat lines that Biggio had.

lahmejoon

Does anyone else think it's odd that Bagwell is so much higher in the vote than Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, etc, considering the shroud of PEDs around him? He was a beast in his hay day, but I thought there were links to PEDs with him as well.

6fan

<< <i>Let's talk 1991 Upper Deck Final Update sets. You can get them for a buck at shows, and its got Pedro's XRC. Anyone see room for this XRC to move upwards? Thome is in there too, along with Pudge. >>



Sure, spend your hard earned money on that garbage. Those sets are $1.00 for a reason, they are overproduced junk.

MiniDuff

Not only that, he had 3,000 hits as a Catcher, Second Baseman and Center Fielder. Are you reasonably trying to compare his stats to a corner infield or outfield position? He also scored 1,844 runs and stole over 400 bases.

There are plenty of players with lesser cases.

cjaccardi

I am getting my t shirts ready for next years voting !

Estil

<< <i>It's a complete joke that a guy with 3,000 hits has been left out not once, but twice. Biggio should be in, period. >>





All the other eligible non-roid guys got in on the first ballot with 3000 hits...there is no good reason Biggio should be any different.

Let's hope both Killer B's go in together in 2015.

76collector

Too bad they can't move up Smoltz's eligibility by one year. I think he is a lock to get in as well. Would be pretty awesome to see Him go in along with Maddux, Glavine and Bobby Cox.

CollectorAtWork

<< <i>I don't know what bothers me more. The fact that 16 people didn't think Greg Maddux was Hall of Fame worthy....or the fact that people thought Jacque Jones and JT Snow were worthy of the Hall of Fame. >>



Those 16 people may have thought that Maddux was Hall worth, but not first ballot worthy (although I read one voter only voted for Morris and left everyone off for that era). I think Maddux is a HOFer, but the thing is with him and Glavine, they weren't big postseason stars. Atlanta only won one WS with the big three, and that hurts their credentials somewhat. I think Randy Johnson and even Pedro were better pitchers than Maddux, especially since they performed better in the post season. (even given that Randy has his share of postseason bombs.)

ThoseBackPages

<< <i>Let's talk 1991 Upper Deck Final Update sets. You can get them for a buck at shows, and its got Pedro's XRC. Anyone see room for this XRC to move upwards? Thome is in there too, along with Pudge. >>



last i checked there are more then 2,000 PSA 10 Pedros and 12K PSA 9's

also, are we sure UD has stopped printing these sets?

TheCARDKid

The problem with Biggio, he played his whole career in Houston. If he had 3,000 hits as a yankee or dodger for 20 years, I don't think we'd be having this discussion.

The yankees, red sox, cardinals, giants, etc have gotten all the attention in the last 10 years. Also, we're in a power era. Biggio represents something from a different era (i.e. staying with the same team for so long, and steady performance).

He's probably one of the most underrated athletes of the last 20 years.

grote15

<< <i>

<< <i>I don't know what bothers me more. The fact that 16 people didn't think Greg Maddux was Hall of Fame worthy....or the fact that people thought Jacque Jones and JT Snow were worthy of the Hall of Fame. >>



Those 16 people may have thought that Maddux was Hall worth, but not first ballot worthy (although I read one voter only voted for Morris and left everyone off for that era). I think Maddux is a HOFer, but the thing is with him and Glavine, they weren't big postseason stars. Atlanta only won one WS with the big three, and that hurts their credentials somewhat. I think Randy Johnson and even Pedro were better pitchers than Maddux, especially since they performed better in the post season. (even given that Randy has his share of postseason bombs.) >>



Glavine's career postseason ERA and WHIP were both better than his career regular season stats, and Maddux had a postseason ERA of 3.27 and WHIP of 1.24, so if you're going to say the Braves didn't win enough titles, it certainly is not because of either one of them. In fact, without Galvine, the Braves don't win the NLCS or the WS in 1995.

Edit to add: In fact, here's an interesting fact to dispel a common misconception. Most people view Jack Morris as a postseason beast, yet his career postseason ERA is higher than either Maddux OR Glavine.

NVbaseball

<< <i>The yankees, red sox, cardinals, giants, etc have gotten all the attention in the last 10 years. Also, we're in a power era. Biggio represents something from a different era (i.e. staying with the same team for so long, and steady performance). >>



Yet Mussina and Schilling were both far better than Morris, but combined they earned fewer votes than Morris. So whatever attention the Red Sox and Yankees have gotten, there wasn't much of it this year

orioles93

Im surprised Mussina didnt get more support. I hope he gets more in future years. He was a great pitcher. Ended with 270 wins, and his last season he had 20 wins. He could have stuck around for 5 more mediocre years to get to 300 wins but he chose to leave when he felt the time was right which is admirable. Plus he played in the AL East during the steroid era, in 2 hitter friendly ball parks his entire career. Put him in San Diego for his whole career and he probably goes well past 300 wins with ease. Plus he was hurt by the shortened 93 and 94 seasons. He could have gotten 5 more wins each of those years easily.

ThoseBackPages

Congrats to:

1987 Donruss
1988 Score
1990 Leaf

for making it into the PSA HOF Registry!