<< <i>My recollection is that the OP stated the customer needed money in a time frame that precluded sending the coin to PCGS. >>
Recollection from where? Nowhere is that stated until this very page of thread. >>
Yep, that's it. I had thought it was in the original thread, but what does that matter materially to the discussion? >>
wow >>
TDN - don't you know that you need to be more grist-ful to challenge CoinJunkie? >>
EVP, I notice you only seem to surface on these Legend threads where Brucie and the gang will be sure to have your back. Kinda scary going it alone, eh? I guess when you live in the Bowery, that's a natural mindset...
I thought this was a terrific hot topics that called out inreal time what goes on among PNG members.
And this comment from LS sums it up for me:
" I do not hesitate to call Hall or JA when I see bad coins-especially in auctions. And, Legend has even eaten a few dollars buying bad coin or two. I'm not being any hero, its called doing what is right."
I can tell you as a consumer of coins I will ALWAYS recommend her and do business with Legend.
I can think of only 3 dealers that I know of that have similar values ( not sayin there are not more but I have not dealt with them yet). These dealers get my repeated business and referrrals.
And there are dealers out there who I have dealt with that I tried to return a messed with coin only to be told no. Big noted dealers. Or at least so-called.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Major pet peeve, this isn't a chatroom, it's a forum. >>
What's the difference?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I found this sort of disturbing. It insinuates that if you don't have essentially a 100% CAC inventory that something is wrong with you. Is this where we are now? What does this have to do with doctoring? What it does have 100% to do with are dealers making the choice to go with 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% CAC coins in their inventory. The logical answer to me why someone has essentially a 100% CAC inventory is that they bought the majority of them that way. Most of the coins CAC rejects are probably just low end for the grade and NOT doctored. Why shouldn't collectors and dealers use the sticker as a way to avoid doctored coins? Then what happens to the 60% of the coin market that isn't stickerable, and isn't doctored? Never mind that. What happens to the health of the "coin market" if such logic eventually takes hold in much larger size? >>
This is sort of my question when I read Laura's posts. Not every coin can be CAC'd by definition and intention. So what to do with non-stickerable coins? Perhaps your market is such you can deal exclusively with CAC'd coins, but your average dealers selling average MS-63 Morgans will not and cannot have everything be stickered.
It is my understanding that CAC was started to try to create a market for aiding sight-unseen buying by declaring coins "good" for a particular grade. Identifying problem coins is only really secondary. It seems to me that the TPGs are by far best avenue in detecting and removing problem coins. Sometimes mistakes are made, but they do a pretty good job. For the puttied Stella, CAC was not needed to declare it puttied, anyone with more than a smidge of numismatic knowledge would know something wasn't right. I'm making no particular statements as if what was done was right or wrong, just that you don't need to be an expert to spot that one.
In general I applaud and am thankful for Laura's efforts in trying to improve the marketplace for collectors, however, I feel some of her statements are bit misguided.
I just read this thread and I agree that coins should not be tampered with - its that plain and and simple to me.
I do realize that there are a few that want a make a few more bucks "fixing" a coin but that doesn't make it right. I feel its completely wrong. Our coin business doesn't have any regulations other than good old fashion business ethics. One time, I purchased a gold coin that was tampered with. Bottom line- I will never buy a gold coin again - extreme yes but that me.
Prices of coins are based solely on supply and demand. If enough coin dealers play the coin fixing game then demand will drop and coin prices will drop. Investors will invest in other areas other than coins.Is this where we want the coin business to go?
I can't understand why dealers, societies i.e PNG or the ANA just agree that coin doctoring is very wrong. TPG services and CAC is doing a great job trying to get it right why shouldn't all the dealers follow suit?
Personally, I feel that the coin business needs something like what football or baseball has for use of performing enhancement drugs. What I suggest is dealers start a group and any dealer can join and if anyone of those dealers offer coins that were doctored, then there name is listed on a public site for all to view. As more and more ethical dealers join this group, then we will know which dealers want to get it right. More thoughts?
<< <i>I did not even bother to read the Stella thread until I read this one. I have always respected Laura for her efforts to make a difference. >>
+1, it's refreshing to hear her views like this. Collectors can't be expected to be able to discern every problem and I like the concept of a dealer who is this outspoken about doctored coins
Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
<< <i>I did not even bother to read the Stella thread until I read this one. I have always respected Laura for her efforts to make a difference. >>
+1, it's refreshing to hear her views like this. Collectors can't be expected to be able to discern every problem and I like the concept of a dealer who is this outspoken about doctored coins >>
<< <i>Major pet peeve, this isn't a chatroom, it's a forum. >>
What's the difference? >>
Chatrooms are generally synchronous conversation, whereas forums are asynchronous. In other words, on a forum, topics can stay relevant for days, whereas in a chatroom, you can't really "bump" a topic. You can bring it back up, yes, but you can't readily refer back to prior conversation with ease since it isn't archived. Two very different beasts.
Via ehow.com, which sums it up nicely;
Time: The Biggest Difference The biggest difference between chat rooms and forums are that chat rooms happen in real time, and forums act as a message system, in which posts are left and can be viewed at a later date or time. If you're not watching and participating in a chat room as it happens, it becomes easy to lose track of a conversation, with the only way to catch up being to scroll up or ask another member of the chat to fill you in. In a chat room, being away for two hours is an astronomical amount of time, nearly equivalent to being away from an active phone call for that long. In the case of message boards, two hours is a very short period of time, especially if the topic or board isn't incredibly active.
Users of Both Mediums Chat rooms are used more for spur-of-the-moment discussions, while forums act more as a community. With chat rooms, users have the ability to create a room on a whim, change the name of the room later, and flip back and forth between topics without it coming across as strange. Message board screen names ring out around a forum, with certain users becoming known for certain opinions and areas of expertise. Posts are tallied per user, so it's easy to tell who spends a lot of time and energy on the board and who just browses or passes through from time to time. Since the weight of communication is different, the penalties are different for anyone who breaks the rules. In a chat room, if a user is abusive or disruptive, they're kicked out of the chat room and possibly banned for a set amount of time. This may not matter, as the chat room may not even exist an hour from now. However, in the case of a forum, a user could have posted on the board for the last five years, tallied 50,000 posts and become well known around the forum, so being banned from the forum will be a much bigger hit due to the time invested.
Topics: Chat Rooms vs. Forums Most chat rooms and forums are typically created around a central topic, hobby, lifestyle or interest. Chat rooms are typically more loosely based, with the conversation flowing depending on participants' mood and activity that particular day. Since message boards compile posts for a longer period of time, topics are often responded to in cycles, meaning the conversation can go a number of ways. Forum discussions are laid out by topics, called "threads", so a person can choose to scroll through pages and only participate in the topic or "thread" that interests him. In a chat room, if the current discussion isn't of interest to a reader, he has no choice but to participate, try to change the topic or wait until the topic changes organically.
In particular, this excerpt defines the biggest difference;
In a chat room, being away for two hours is an astronomical amount of time, nearly equivalent to being away from an active phone call for that long. In the case of message boards, two hours is a very short period of time, especially if the topic or board isn't incredibly active. >>
Choose your battles wisely...this shouldnt be one of them
The problem with the PNG Code of Ethics is that they are words on paper and until enforced don't mean or stand for very much.
Take for instance #7. To refrain from knowingly dealing in counterfeit, altered, repaired or "doctored" numismatic items without fully disclosing their status to my customer.
This can not be enforced in many cases, take the case of the "puttied stella". A dealer can always state I verbally disclosed the status to the customer. Without some written documentation on the holder or on the invoice, the customer does not have any evidence. PNG does not have any evidence and therefore can not enforce the code.
There are many coins floating with known problems that dealers pass around, it is simply a matter of time before the coin gets buried to an unknowing collector.
<< <i>Choose your battles wisely...this shouldnt be one of them >>
Battle? I'm just educating. >>
As I've explained before, when you are logged onto a chat room, anything typed by anyone in the "room" appears on your screen immediately. That's the easiest way to think of this. Message board is analogous to e-mail; chat room to group IM.
<< <i>The problem with the PNG Code of Ethics is that they are words on paper and until enforced don't mean or stand for very much. >>
Isn't that the "problem" with any Code of Ethics? The dealer in question stated that full disclosure was made to the customer. Because many people here don't approve of his actions (even though they don't violate the PNG CoE), they attempt to insinuate that nothing the dealer says here can be trusted.
Must be great to live in a world where everything is either black or white......
<< <i>Message board..... chat room? Naw, this place usually reminds me of the "Cheers" bar. I can even hear the theme song. Hear it? >>
The Buffalo Theory as told by Cliff Clavin: No one can explain this as well as Cliff Clavin, on Cheers. One afternoon at Cheers, Cliff Clavin was explaining the Buffalo Theory to his buddy Norm. and here's how it went:
"Well ya see, Norm, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.
"In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.
In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers."
Question, Don? If a PCGS MS64 coin comes in for an upgrade and in fact turns out to be an MS63, does PCGS reholder at the lower grade or keep it at the MS64 grade and return it to the submitter?
Any PCGS graded coin submitted to PCGS for any service that is determined to be over-graded is covered by the PCGS guarantee. That means we will buy it outright or downgrade it and return the coin along with a settlement for the lost value - that's your call. I've said this many times but I also just read the same question on a thread about Restoration submissions. Once your coin is in a PCGS holder it is fully guaranteed unless you crack it out or do something to damage it in the holder (like burn your house down!).
<< <i>What would you have said to your regular customer if they ended up with the coin? >>
"Customer, I've been working with your for years. Surely you can go elsewhere, especially since that's a lot of money and nothing I stock on a regular basis. I'm always here for a consultation. I don't think this is the coin for you. I straight out don't like the coin at all. Do you have a return privilege? NO? If I think I should send it in for PCGS to look at it. They may think some financial adjustment might be made if they agree with me"
But that's what I'd say now. Don Willis cleared up a lot of issues for us on this thread.
I think it's a bit unfair to come in at this point with something close to a hypothetical. This is a Forum, not an Appellate Court.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I've read both the Stella thread and Laura's rant. I'm totally on board with the ongoing battle against doctoring and agree about some PNG members' apparent disregard for their own code... But- that said... once she started plugging CAC so hard, she lost significant cred IMO.
By the way...as to the Stella-help me out here because I've been out of the loop for a couple of days... has the seller informed, or does the seller plan now or in the immediate future to inform the buyer of: a)the putty issue itself? b)the buyer's options regarding the PCGS guarantee? c)the two threads in question?
<< <i>I've read both the Stella thread and Laura's rant. I'm totally on board with the ongoing battle against doctoring and agree about some PNG members' apparent disregard for their own code... But- that said... once she started plugging CAC so hard, she lost significant cred IMO.
By the way...as to the Stella-help me out here because I've been out of the loop for a couple of days... has the seller informed, or does the seller plan now or in the immediate future to inform the buyer of: a)the putty issue itself? b)the buyer's options regarding the PCGS guarantee? c)the two threads in question? >>
keep reading the stella thread. you don't seem to be all the way through based on this.
JA is going to take it off the market just to get it off the market.
a) everyone assumes and no one disputes greeniejr disclosed the putty to the buyer. (who would be so foolish and dishonest to sell without disclosure then post putty pictures on the internet with their real name? that's a lawsuit with damages. the putty was disclosed.)
b) the guarantee holds no matter who is the owner.
Laura took down her post and replaced it with this. I redacted the name
HAD TO CHANGE THE ARTICLE
You may have noticed that I recently took down from my blog two posts dealing with the subject of coin doctoring and the PNG. This stems from a joint effort I am making with PNG to actively deal with this subject matter at the wholesale and retail level. I, and I believe PNG, are approaching these discussions in good faith and we will see what occurs. Watch here for the outcome because, for sure, there will be more on this story.
Yes this action I am invloved in does stem from the XXXXXXXX puttied Stella sale thread that had been on the PCGS chatroom a month or two ago.
I make no bones about my hatred for coin doctors, those who support them, and those who take no action. I will never be silenced on this subject.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My recollection is that the OP stated the customer needed money in a time frame that precluded sending the
coin to PCGS. >>
Recollection from where? Nowhere is that stated until this very page of thread. >>
Yep, that's it. I had thought it was in the original thread, but what does that matter materially to the discussion? >>
wow >>
TDN - don't you know that you need to be more grist-ful to challenge CoinJunkie? >>
EVP, I notice you only seem to surface on these Legend threads where Brucie and the gang will be sure
to have your back. Kinda scary going it alone, eh? I guess when you live in the Bowery, that's a natural
mindset...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My recollection is that the OP stated the customer needed money in a time frame that precluded sending the
coin to PCGS. >>
Recollection from where? Nowhere is that stated until this very page of thread. >>
Yep, that's it. I had thought it was in the original thread, but what does that matter materially to the discussion? >>
Are you smoking something today?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
And this comment from LS sums it up for me:
" I do not hesitate to call Hall or JA when I see bad coins-especially in auctions. And, Legend has even eaten a few dollars buying bad coin or two. I'm not being any hero, its called doing what is right."
I can tell you as a consumer of coins I will ALWAYS recommend her and do business with Legend.
I can think of only 3 dealers that I know of that have similar values ( not sayin there are not more but I have not dealt with them yet).
These dealers get my repeated business and referrrals.
And there are dealers out there who I have dealt with that I tried to return a messed with coin only to be told no. Big noted dealers. Or at least so-called.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Major pet peeve, this isn't a chatroom, it's a forum. >>
What's the difference?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Regards,
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>I found this sort of disturbing. It insinuates that if you don't have essentially a 100% CAC inventory that something is wrong with you. Is this where we are now? What does this have to do with doctoring? What it does have 100% to do with are dealers making the choice to go with 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% CAC coins in their inventory. The logical answer to me why someone has essentially a 100% CAC inventory is that they bought the majority of them that way. Most of the coins CAC rejects are probably just low end for the grade and NOT doctored. Why shouldn't collectors and dealers use the sticker as a way to avoid doctored coins? Then what happens to the 60% of the coin market that isn't stickerable, and isn't doctored? Never mind that. What happens to the health of the "coin market" if such logic eventually takes hold in much larger size? >>
This is sort of my question when I read Laura's posts. Not every coin can be CAC'd by definition and intention. So what to do with non-stickerable coins? Perhaps your market is such you can deal exclusively with CAC'd coins, but your average dealers selling average MS-63 Morgans will not and cannot have everything be stickered.
It is my understanding that CAC was started to try to create a market for aiding sight-unseen buying by declaring coins "good" for a particular grade. Identifying problem coins is only really secondary. It seems to me that the TPGs are by far best avenue in detecting and removing problem coins. Sometimes mistakes are made, but they do a pretty good job. For the puttied Stella, CAC was not needed to declare it puttied, anyone with more than a smidge of numismatic knowledge would know something wasn't right. I'm making no particular statements as if what was done was right or wrong, just that you don't need to be an expert to spot that one.
In general I applaud and am thankful for Laura's efforts in trying to improve the marketplace for collectors, however, I feel some of her statements are bit misguided.
I do realize that there are a few that want a make a few more bucks "fixing" a coin but that doesn't make it right. I feel its completely wrong. Our coin business doesn't have any regulations other than good old fashion business ethics. One time, I purchased a gold coin that was tampered with. Bottom line- I will never buy a gold coin again - extreme yes but that me.
Prices of coins are based solely on supply and demand. If enough coin dealers play the coin fixing game then demand will drop and coin prices will drop. Investors will invest in other areas other than coins.Is this where we want the coin business to go?
I can't understand why dealers, societies i.e PNG or the ANA just agree that coin doctoring is very wrong. TPG services and CAC is doing a great job trying to get it right why shouldn't all the dealers follow suit?
Personally, I feel that the coin business needs something like what football or baseball has for use of performing enhancement drugs. What I suggest is dealers start a group and any dealer can join and if anyone of those dealers offer coins that were doctored, then there name is listed on a public site for all to view. As more and more ethical dealers join this group, then we will know which dealers want to get it right. More thoughts?
Text
<< <i>I did not even bother to read the Stella thread until I read this one. I have always respected Laura for her efforts to make a difference. >>
+1, it's refreshing to hear her views like this. Collectors can't be expected to be able to discern every problem and I like the concept of a dealer who is this outspoken about doctored coins
<< <i>
<< <i>I did not even bother to read the Stella thread until I read this one. I have always respected Laura for her efforts to make a difference. >>
+1, it's refreshing to hear her views like this. Collectors can't be expected to be able to discern every problem and I like the concept of a dealer who is this outspoken about doctored coins
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Major pet peeve, this isn't a chatroom, it's a forum. >>
What's the difference?
Chatrooms are generally synchronous conversation, whereas forums are asynchronous. In other words, on a forum, topics can stay relevant for days, whereas in a chatroom, you can't really "bump" a topic. You can bring it back up, yes, but you can't readily refer back to prior conversation with ease since it isn't archived. Two very different beasts.
Via ehow.com, which sums it up nicely;
Time: The Biggest Difference
The biggest difference between chat rooms and forums are that chat rooms happen in real time, and forums act as a message system, in which posts are left and can be viewed at a later date or time. If you're not watching and participating in a chat room as it happens, it becomes easy to lose track of a conversation, with the only way to catch up being to scroll up or ask another member of the chat to fill you in. In a chat room, being away for two hours is an astronomical amount of time, nearly equivalent to being away from an active phone call for that long. In the case of message boards, two hours is a very short period of time, especially if the topic or board isn't incredibly active.
Users of Both Mediums
Chat rooms are used more for spur-of-the-moment discussions, while forums act more as a community. With chat rooms, users have the ability to create a room on a whim, change the name of the room later, and flip back and forth between topics without it coming across as strange. Message board screen names ring out around a forum, with certain users becoming known for certain opinions and areas of expertise. Posts are tallied per user, so it's easy to tell who spends a lot of time and energy on the board and who just browses or passes through from time to time. Since the weight of communication is different, the penalties are different for anyone who breaks the rules. In a chat room, if a user is abusive or disruptive, they're kicked out of the chat room and possibly banned for a set amount of time. This may not matter, as the chat room may not even exist an hour from now. However, in the case of a forum, a user could have posted on the board for the last five years, tallied 50,000 posts and become well known around the forum, so being banned from the forum will be a much bigger hit due to the time invested.
Topics: Chat Rooms vs. Forums
Most chat rooms and forums are typically created around a central topic, hobby, lifestyle or interest. Chat rooms are typically more loosely based, with the conversation flowing depending on participants' mood and activity that particular day. Since message boards compile posts for a longer period of time, topics are often responded to in cycles, meaning the conversation can go a number of ways. Forum discussions are laid out by topics, called "threads", so a person can choose to scroll through pages and only participate in the topic or "thread" that interests him. In a chat room, if the current discussion isn't of interest to a reader, he has no choice but to participate, try to change the topic or wait until the topic changes organically.
Read more: http://www.ehow.com/info_8284853_differences-between-chat-rooms-forums.html#ixzz2pZDGX3Gi
In particular, this excerpt defines the biggest difference;
In a chat room, being away for two hours is an astronomical amount of time, nearly equivalent to being away from an active phone call for that long. In the case of message boards, two hours is a very short period of time, especially if the topic or board isn't incredibly active. >>
Choose your battles wisely...this shouldnt be one of them
Take for instance #7. To refrain from knowingly dealing in counterfeit, altered, repaired or "doctored" numismatic items without fully disclosing their status to my customer.
This can not be enforced in many cases, take the case of the "puttied stella". A dealer can always state I verbally disclosed the status to the customer. Without some written documentation on the holder or on the invoice, the customer does not have any evidence. PNG does not have any evidence and therefore can not enforce the code.
There are many coins floating with known problems that dealers pass around, it is simply a matter of time before the coin gets buried to an unknowing collector.
<< <i>
<< <i>Choose your battles wisely...this shouldnt be one of them
Battle? I'm just educating.
As I've explained before, when you are logged onto a chat room, anything typed by anyone in the "room"
appears on your screen immediately. That's the easiest way to think of this. Message board is analogous
to e-mail; chat room to group IM.
<< <i>The problem with the PNG Code of Ethics is that they are words on paper and until enforced don't mean or stand for very much. >>
Isn't that the "problem" with any Code of Ethics? The dealer in question stated that full disclosure
was made to the customer. Because many people here don't approve of his actions (even though they
don't violate the PNG CoE), they attempt to insinuate that nothing the dealer says here can be trusted.
Must be great to live in a world where everything is either black or white......
<< <i>Message board..... chat room? Naw, this place usually reminds me of the "Cheers" bar. I can even hear the theme song. Hear it?
The Buffalo Theory as told by Cliff Clavin: No one can explain this as well as Cliff Clavin, on Cheers. One afternoon at Cheers, Cliff Clavin was explaining the Buffalo Theory to his buddy Norm. and here's how it went:
"Well ya see, Norm, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.
"In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.
In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers."
Any PCGS graded coin submitted to PCGS for any service that is determined to be over-graded is covered by the PCGS guarantee. That means we will buy it outright or downgrade it and return the coin along with a settlement for the lost value - that's your call. I've said this many times but I also just read the same question on a thread about Restoration submissions. Once your coin is in a PCGS holder it is fully guaranteed unless you crack it out or do something to damage it in the holder (like burn your house down!).
<< <i>Last bought from Legend about 8 years ago. Super nice coins, but the rants got old. >>
I don't mind the rants if they are coherent and about relevant things.... and hers are.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Last bought from Legend about 8 years ago. Super nice coins, but the rants got old. >>
I don't mind the rants if they are coherent and about relevant things.... and hers are. >>
She makes good points. It's interesting how some things really haven't changed much to the detriment of the hobby.
<< <i>What would you have said to your regular customer if they ended up with the coin? >>
"Customer, I've been working with your for years. Surely you can go elsewhere, especially since that's a lot of money and nothing I stock on a regular basis. I'm always here for a consultation. I don't think this is the coin for you. I straight out don't like the coin at all. Do you have a return privilege? NO? If I think I should send it in for PCGS to look at it. They may think some financial adjustment might be made if they agree with me"
But that's what I'd say now. Don Willis cleared up a lot of issues for us on this thread.
I think it's a bit unfair to come in at this point with something close to a hypothetical. This is a Forum, not an Appellate Court.
But- that said... once she started plugging CAC so hard, she lost significant cred IMO.
By the way...as to the Stella-help me out here because I've been out of the loop for a couple of days...
has the seller informed, or does the seller plan now or in the immediate future to inform the buyer of:
a)the putty issue itself?
b)the buyer's options regarding the PCGS guarantee?
c)the two threads in question?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I've read both the Stella thread and Laura's rant. I'm totally on board with the ongoing battle against doctoring and agree about some PNG members' apparent disregard for their own code...
But- that said... once she started plugging CAC so hard, she lost significant cred IMO.
By the way...as to the Stella-help me out here because I've been out of the loop for a couple of days...
has the seller informed, or does the seller plan now or in the immediate future to inform the buyer of:
a)the putty issue itself?
b)the buyer's options regarding the PCGS guarantee?
c)the two threads in question? >>
keep reading the stella thread. you don't seem to be all the way through based on this.
JA is going to take it off the market just to get it off the market.
a) everyone assumes and no one disputes greeniejr disclosed the putty to the buyer. (who would be so foolish and dishonest to sell without disclosure then post putty pictures on the internet with their real name? that's a lawsuit with damages. the putty was disclosed.)
b) the guarantee holds no matter who is the owner.
c) no idea.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
HAD TO CHANGE THE ARTICLE
You may have noticed that I recently took down from my blog two posts dealing with the subject of coin doctoring and the PNG. This stems from a joint effort I am making with PNG to actively deal with this subject matter at the wholesale and retail level. I, and I believe PNG, are approaching these discussions in good faith and we will see what occurs. Watch here for the outcome because, for sure, there will be more on this story.
Yes this action I am invloved in does stem from the XXXXXXXX puttied Stella sale thread that had been on the PCGS chatroom a month or two ago.
I make no bones about my hatred for coin doctors, those who support them, and those who take no action. I will never be silenced on this subject.