Here is the way I look at it. If I can't afford it before how can I afford it now? WTF good is insurance if I cant afford to eat or a roof over my head
Spending 1/2 million dollars to keep me clinically alive is NOT living to me. We all was born with a expiration date.
<< <i>I just listened to a doc stating that when Medicare lowers their payouts below 70%, he won't accept Medicare patients into his practice, just as he now doesn't treat Medicaid patients because of their low 55% payouts.
So, you can have all the insurance at much higher rates (in order to subsidize those who can't pay for it, in spite of working your whole life while they partied down their whole lives), and all that extra high cost insurance with it's high deductibles still won't get you in the door to see a doc. So you'll still pay more out of pocket, if you can.
It's all about the money, folks. "Insurance coverage" is only the ploy. >>
70%?
Try this.
Went to a "pain specialist" for epidural steroids treatment.
Can't blame him/her for not seeing patients with Medicare or other Government sponsored plans. >>
They jack their initial charges to compensate for insurance reductions. Anyone paying full retail out of pocket (no insurance) should be negotiating the price before the service, providers don't espect to get full retail. It's all part of the scam.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Can't blame him/her for not seeing patients with Medicare or other Government sponsored plans. >>
They jack their initial charges to compensate for insurance reductions. Anyone paying full retail out of pocket (no insurance) should be negotiating the price before the service, providers don't espect to get full retail. It's all part of the scam. >>
Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO.
<< <i>Spending 1/2 million dollars to keep me clinically alive is NOT living to me. We all was born with a expiration date. >>
IN a brief way this summarizes why insurances has become outrageous.
New technology and treatments are costing billions a year without the return on investment of a cure...Our medical system is built on treatment of a disease and abating it, not curing it. Our government is operating the same way with the economy.
Someday a plague will hit. The plague will be an anarchist to current medical practice, procedure and treatment.
Someday an economic plague as well.
No treatment no cure, just high attrition.
PM and cash may help in the latter as well as being off the grid.
Just don't get sick and stay as far away as possible from the anarchy and fallout of the economic plague.
<< <i> New technology and treatments are costing billions a year without the return on investment of a cure...Our medical system is built on treatment of a disease and abating it, not curing it. Our government is operating the same way with the economy. >>
I couldn't agree more with this statement. The drug industry has absolutely ZERO incentive to cure any diseases. It's all about finding a revenue stream. And nothing kills a revenue stream in the drug industry than a cure. >>
<< <i>Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO. >>
Every payment they collect, except for the cash customer, has been negotiated. Their initially jacked fee is just for negotiating purposes. Unfortunately the cash customer ends up paying the jacked fee.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO. >>
Every payment they collect, except for the cash customer, has been negotiated. Their initially jacked fee is just for negotiating purposes. Unfortunately the cash customer ends up paying the jacked fee. >>
If an auto repair shop operated in the same fashion, he would most likely be in prison.
<< <i>Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO. >>
Every payment they collect, except for the cash customer, has been negotiated. Their initially jacked fee is just for negotiating purposes. Unfortunately the cash customer ends up paying the jacked fee. >>
If an auto repair shop operated in the same fashion, he would most likely be in prison. >>
That's why the auto repair shop has two prices - one for you and another for State Farm.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO. >>
Every payment they collect, except for the cash customer, has been negotiated. Their initially jacked fee is just for negotiating purposes. Unfortunately the cash customer ends up paying the jacked fee. >>
I was referring to uninsured patients. I doubt they'd deal with you unless you were willing to pay up front. I understand that their deal with insurance companies is negotiated.
Can't blame him/her for not seeing patients with Medicare or other Government sponsored plans. >>
They jack their initial charges to compensate for insurance reductions. Anyone paying full retail out of pocket (no insurance) should be negotiating the price before the service, providers don't espect to get full retail. It's all part of the scam. >>
Yep. I'm looking at an elective surgery next year and the hospital offers a 25% discount for cash payment within 30 days. Of course, after running everything through their billing systems, 30 days is really 6 months and "cash" includes credit cards.
Try walking into your neighborhood supermarket, drug store, auto repair shop or anywhere else and significantly "negotiate" the price down to a level that barely allows them to keep the shop lights on. Try comming up to the cash register on a Saturday night with a cart full of groceries and when they ring up your bill say "I have no money to pay for this" and see if you can walk away without issue. That happens millions of times daily in this country in hospital Emergeny rooms. Hospitals cannot by law turn you away. Yet, if you and your family are hungry....try walking out of the supermarket with a free cart of groceries. Try walking in the other guys shoes. Just sayin'!
Edit for: this is a precious metals forum. We are WAY off topic here!
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<< <i>Try walking into your neighborhood supermarket, drug store, auto repair shop or anywhere else and significantly "negotiate" the price down to a level that barely allows them to keep the shop lights on. Try comming up to the cash register on a Saturday night with a cart full of groceries and when they ring up your bill say "I have no money to pay for this" and see if you can walk away without issue. That happens millions of times daily in this country in hospital Emergeny rooms. Hospitals cannot by law turn you away. Yet, if you and your family are hungry....try walking out of the supermarket with a free cart of groceries. Try walking in the other guys shoes. Just sayin'!
Edit for: this is a precious metals forum. We are WAY off topic here! >>
Presumably, the money you save by not buying health insurance can permit you to buy/stack more PMs.
This is precious metals and economic news & information discussion forum. You can bet that the cost of health care is a critical economic input....every bit as important as the price of gold. It's not way off topic as it's a large component in the cost of living (CPI), GDP, etc. Here is a perfect instance of the BLS "substitution" effects in play. While the BLS probably raises the total benefit produced from the health care system due to all the "improvements" in drugs and technological devices, we get to figure out what things to remove from our care (or raise deductible limits) in order to make the overall package affordable to us. Just another way of substituting beef for steak (or dog food for hamburger). In a few years, the dog food would have seemed like a good place to remain.
<< <i>"This is precious metals and economic news & information discussion forum"
Really?
When I look at this website on my monitor for CU forums what is displayed on my screen is...
"Precious Metals This is forum for the discussion of precious metals and how that relates to coin collecting."
I see no mention of economic news & information! >>
Look at the name of the primary thread from 2004-2009 that carried this "forum" for all those years on the other side before it was given it's own forum (ie >10,000 posts). Without that input for those 5 years, there would have been no official PMs forum. We'd be all bored to tears if all we could talk about each day was the price of PMs & what the mint was selling this month. Many economic topics relate to the price of gold.
I found it ironic that on the last page of the orig thread before it was locked due to being too large, the discussion was on national health care. And those points from 5 years ago seem just as viable today.
I suspect our host has given the stacker forum some leeway as long as the discussion remains civil.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Try walking into your neighborhood supermarket, drug store, auto repair shop or anywhere else and significantly "negotiate" the price down to a level that barely allows them to keep the shop lights on. Try comming up to the cash register on a Saturday night with a cart full of groceries and when they ring up your bill say "I have no money to pay for this" and see if you can walk away without issue. That happens millions of times daily in this country in hospital Emergeny rooms. Hospitals cannot by law turn you away. Yet, if you and your family are hungry....try walking out of the supermarket with a free cart of groceries. Try walking in the other guys shoes. Just sayin'!
Edit for: this is a precious metals forum. We are WAY off topic here! >>
You don't think hospitals can keep the lights on even though they are marking up things like saline IV bags 500% ?
<< <i>Try walking into your neighborhood supermarket, drug store, auto repair shop or anywhere else and significantly "negotiate" the price down to a level that barely allows them to keep the shop lights on. Try comming up to the cash register on a Saturday night with a cart full of groceries and when they ring up your bill say "I have no money to pay for this" and see if you can walk away without issue. That happens millions of times daily in this country in hospital Emergeny rooms. Hospitals cannot by law turn you away. Yet, if you and your family are hungry....try walking out of the supermarket with a free cart of groceries. Try walking in the other guys shoes. Just sayin'!
Edit for: this is a precious metals forum. We are WAY off topic here! >>
You don't think hospitals can keep the lights on even though they are marking up things like saline IV bags 500% ?
Supermarkets figure the cost of theft and other forms of loss into their shelf prices. Hospitals also figure losses and overhead into room rates and markups on supplies and services. Oftimes they end up collecting about half of what they bill out. They make up for medicare deficiencies by charging more for insurance covered services or to those who can afford to pay more.
<< <i>I can beat that, I've never had health insurance even when I was working one of the most high risk occupations there is, tree work. >>
Neither did the typical industrial worker of the 1850's to 1950's. They relied on their country doctors to do what was right for them. Then again, in those times, diseases didn't typically bankrupt you.
<< <i>I can beat that, I've never had health insurance even when I was working one of the most high risk occupations there is, tree work. >>
Neither did the typical industrial worker of the 1850's to 1950's. They relied on their country doctors to do what was right for them. Then again, in those times, diseases didn't typically bankrupt you. >>
And they no longer accept chickens and cows as payment.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I can beat that, I've never had health insurance even when I was working one of the most high risk occupations there is, tree work. >>
Neither did the typical industrial worker of the 1850's to 1950's. They relied on their country doctors to do what was right for them. Then again, in those times, diseases didn't typically bankrupt you. >>
Now it costs 20% for the healthy as well as the ill. In 2009, Arizona exempted organ transplants for those on Medicaid. The cry's of death panels were deafening. The state soon relented.
When did receiving a previously owned Heart become an entitlement?
In san jose this past summer a homeless man who had been severely beaten was kept on life support for a month before he finally died. Who paid for this?
<< <i>In san jose this past summer a homeless man who had been severely beaten was kept on life support for a month before he finally died. Who paid for this? >>
<< <i>In san jose this past summer a homeless man who had been severely beaten was kept on life support for a month before he finally died. Who paid for this? >>
Other people's money through higher fees and higher premiums.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>In san jose this past summer a homeless man who had been severely beaten was kept on life support for a month before he finally died. Who paid for this? >>
Other people's money through higher fees and higher premiums. >>
Bingo!
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I have to ask, do you have a family? What about assets? I had a bi-lateral pulmonary embolism this summer. 4 days in the hospital, $50,000. My cost with my high deductible plan, about $5,000. Up to that point I always thought insurance was stupid. If I had something worse, I wouldn't want to stick my wife and kids with the bills.
<< <i>I have to ask, do you have a family? What about assets? I had a bi-lateral pulmonary embolism this summer. 4 days in the hospital, $50,000. My cost with my high deductible plan, about $5,000. Up to that point I always thought insurance was stupid. If I had something worse, I wouldn't want to stick my wife and kids with the bills. >>
Everyone that I am responsible for is financially secure.
I don't think health insurance is stupid, I believe that it is way out of control. Many folks take horrid care of themselves and when they get ill, they expect the non smoking, non obese and non drug abusing suckers to cover their bills.
We do not expect to pay the same auto insurance tab as the fella with 2 or 3 dui's, yet we bend over for this new form of socialized protection. The healthy men in their 20's and 30's are really getting hosed in this program. Fortunately most are wise enough to pay the fine and move on.
Do you not think that your family has suffered by paying 20% of your earnings for medical care? You mentioned a $50k hospital bill, for what, did you have surgery or just lay there as they brought you dinner, took your blood pressure and gave you some $100 pills.
I always wondered about the $250,000 Cardiac bypass surgery. Now that amount of money will build you a pretty decent 4 bedroom home in my town. Somehow we are to believe that the 8 well trained folks in that OR for 8 hours are worth the same as the work put into building a home. Lets not forget the value of the property and materials as well.
As long as most of us bow obsequiously to the lords of medicine and the shylock insurers and politicians that feed from the same trough, we will certainly get more of the same.
<< <i>Two acquaintances were diagnosed with Cancer a bit over a year ago. One was given a 5% chance to survive 5 years, the other with Bladder Cancer was told no problem, we can fix this. he died 2 weeks ago. The other guy is expected to live maybe another 6 months as the disease has spread.
$1,000,000 each for what? really for what? 15 months of toxic poison coursing through their veins?
Let me drive the Italian convertible, not the Doc. >>
I wish you the best with or without insurance.
Toxic poisoning saved my life, after one chemo treatment my pain was gone. While I still had to follow up with all the other scheduled poisonings it was well worth it.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>Two acquaintances were diagnosed with Cancer a bit over a year ago. One was given a 5% chance to survive 5 years, the other with Bladder Cancer was told no problem, we can fix this. he died 2 weeks ago. The other guy is expected to live maybe another 6 months as the disease has spread.
$1,000,000 each for what? really for what? 15 months of toxic poison coursing through their veins?
Let me drive the Italian convertible, not the Doc. >>
I wish you the best with or without insurance.
Toxic poisoning saved my life, after one chemo treatment my pain was gone. While I still had to follow up with all the other scheduled poisonings it was well worth it. >>
Glad you survived. I spent the holidays comforting a new widow and her adult daughter.
Choose to take the potions you wish.
BTW..it was my father's doctor in Nevada that called the stuff poison, the idea was not mine.
<< <i>Two acquaintances were diagnosed with Cancer a bit over a year ago. One was given a 5% chance to survive 5 years, the other with Bladder Cancer was told no problem, we can fix this. he died 2 weeks ago. The other guy is expected to live maybe another 6 months as the disease has spread.
$1,000,000 each for what? really for what? 15 months of toxic poison coursing through their veins?
Let me drive the Italian convertible, not the Doc. >>
I wish you the best with or without insurance.
Toxic poisoning saved my life, after one chemo treatment my pain was gone. While I still had to follow up with all the other scheduled poisonings it was well worth it. >>
Glad you survived. I spent the holidays comforting a new widow and her adult daughter.
Choose to take the potions you wish.
BTW..it was my father's doctor in Nevada that called the stuff poison, the idea was not mine. >>
BTW don't take it the wrong way I totally agree it's poison and man was I glad I took it, it was better then the pain and agony I had before the treatment.
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what did they do? They SAVED my life. My mother died of the same thing I had when she was 38. I was a few days short of 50 when it happened. My wife drove me to the hospital when I couldn't breath. I went to the front desk at the ER gasping, holding my chest, the klaxons went off and the tests began. Within a few minutes they ruled out heart. They took blood. Within a few minutes said it could be a clot. Got wheeled to a CAT scan where it was determined it was clots in my lungs. Got put on intro-venous blood thinner, Heparin. Works fast. Very fast. Could breathe within 20 minutes on that. Got wheeled to another station where they checked my heart for clots that may have dislodged. That's the stuff that kills you. Next 3 days was getting weaned onto a pill (Warfarin) that thins the blood and off the Heparin. Walked out fine. Just take the 1 pill/day blood thinner, $12 for 90 days worth.
I have a kid in college and one in high school. Glad to still be alive. You act all smug like you know it all. All it takes is one bad driver and you could be wiped out. You're not smart. You're just lucky. And stupid. Good luck.
<< <i>1000 posts in less than 2 months? I don't believe you.
BTW- your OT posts will get you banned quicker than me calling you stupid. >>
Not sure that a thread about 18% of the economy which has choked the US government with paralyzing debt and unsecured money production is irrelevant to the future of precious metals.
The whole things a sham. They didn't do anything meaningful to control costs. It was much more about control over our lives. It wouldn't surprise one bit to see them move to outlaw the ownership of pm's or any other real property for that matter. They've already got property taxes so high in most places ownership is an illusion that keeps going until you miss a payday or twelve. Works to confiscate just as well as a gun and done incrementally there's barely a whimper out of the populace. Do a good enough job brainwashing and the pawns will even vote for their own loss of control.
I don't know about you, i'd rather live on my feet than die on my knees. +1 Glicker
BTW-just curious to know what your previous handle was before getting banned and coming back as this one?
It doesn't seem fair to me that you can make such an assertion, when your own handle doesn't date back as far as OFR.
Back to the insurance debate - they could've reduced insurance rates by offering competition across state lines, and they didn't do it. Why not? Because it has never been about insurance.
Your $5,000 deductible plan should have cost half what you've paid and your deductible should have cost $2,500. It's always been about screwing people who worked and saved, for cheap votes. Nothing more, nothing less.
Glad to hear that they were able to save your life. Too much money is being wasted on an inefficient and bloated system, and THAT's the problem because it simply means that fewer and fewer people will have the good fortune to be saved.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The only solution is a single payer system. It is unconscionable that the richest country in the world gets terrible service for mega dollars. The current system does not deliver on a cost versus service basis. Just look the the world rankings on health care costs versus health care outcomes. Too many self protected interests at work keeping prices way too high.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Would like to wish all a very peace filled Healthy New Year. Born in 1953, I have the original bill. Mother was in the hospital normal 3 days (back then), total bill for my birth including the doctor was $97.00
This Affordable Care Act is a tax. Until you wrap yours heads around that fact, this empire is doomed. Come tomorrow, people will be denied, people will be taxed, (higher premiums), and as we see from the blogger "I will not have health insurance". Another tax is not what the west needs.
One positive result of this government tax, doctors, hospitals will take cash and discount. Go find a Doctor who will take cash. Agreed, the single payer system will happen quickly. Most premiums will be too high for the middle class.
Comments
Spending 1/2 million dollars to keep me clinically alive is NOT living to me. We all was born with a expiration date.
<< <i>I just listened to a doc stating that when Medicare lowers their payouts below 70%, he won't accept Medicare patients into his practice, just as he now doesn't treat Medicaid patients because of their low 55% payouts.
So, you can have all the insurance at much higher rates (in order to subsidize those who can't pay for it, in spite of working your whole life while they partied down their whole lives), and all that extra high cost insurance with it's high deductibles still won't get you in the door to see a doc. So you'll still pay more out of pocket, if you can.
It's all about the money, folks. "Insurance coverage" is only the ploy. >>
70%?
Try this.
Went to a "pain specialist" for epidural steroids treatment.
His charges $840.50 Medicare approved $166.97 Medicare paid $130.91 me/supplemental $33.39 hospital charges for facilities $1795.40 approved $1795.40 paid $432.71 me/supplemental $110.39
Can't blame him/her for not seeing patients with Medicare or other Government sponsored plans.
<< <i>His charges $840.50 Medicare approved $166.97 Medicare paid $130.91 me/supplemental $33.39 hospital charges for facilities $1795.40 approved $1795.40 paid $432.71 me/supplemental $110.39
Can't blame him/her for not seeing patients with Medicare or other Government sponsored plans. >>
They jack their initial charges to compensate for insurance reductions. Anyone paying full retail out of pocket (no insurance) should be negotiating the price before the service, providers don't espect to get full retail. It's all part of the scam.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>His charges $840.50 Medicare approved $166.97 Medicare paid $130.91 me/supplemental $33.39 hospital charges for facilities $1795.40 approved $1795.40 paid $432.71 me/supplemental $110.39
Can't blame him/her for not seeing patients with Medicare or other Government sponsored plans. >>
They jack their initial charges to compensate for insurance reductions. Anyone paying full retail out of pocket (no insurance) should be negotiating the price before the service, providers don't espect to get full retail. It's all part of the scam. >>
Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO.
<< <i>Spending 1/2 million dollars to keep me clinically alive is NOT living to me. We all was born with a expiration date. >>
IN a brief way this summarizes why insurances has become outrageous.
New technology and treatments are costing billions a year without the return on investment of a cure...Our medical system is built on treatment of a disease and abating it, not curing it. Our government is operating the same way with the economy.
Someday a plague will hit. The plague will be an anarchist to current medical practice, procedure and treatment.
Someday an economic plague as well.
No treatment no cure, just high attrition.
PM and cash may help in the latter as well as being off the grid.
Just don't get sick and stay as far away as possible from the anarchy and fallout of the economic plague.
<< <i>
<< <i>
New technology and treatments are costing billions a year without the return on investment of a cure...Our medical system is built on treatment of a disease and abating it, not curing it. Our government is operating the same way with the economy.
>>
I couldn't agree more with this statement. The drug industry has absolutely ZERO incentive to cure any diseases. It's all about finding a revenue stream. And nothing kills a revenue stream in the drug industry than a cure. >>
Ah yes, the lifestyle drugs!
<< <i>Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO. >>
Every payment they collect, except for the cash customer, has been negotiated. Their initially jacked fee is just for negotiating purposes. Unfortunately the cash customer ends up paying the jacked fee.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO. >>
Every payment they collect, except for the cash customer, has been negotiated. Their initially jacked fee is just for negotiating purposes. Unfortunately the cash customer ends up paying the jacked fee. >>
If an auto repair shop operated in the same fashion, he would most likely be in prison.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO. >>
Every payment they collect, except for the cash customer, has been negotiated. Their initially jacked fee is just for negotiating purposes. Unfortunately the cash customer ends up paying the jacked fee. >>
If an auto repair shop operated in the same fashion, he would most likely be in prison. >>
That's why the auto repair shop has two prices - one for you and another for State Farm.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Doctors don't need to negotiate since you need them more than they need you. If it was elective care, they'd likely want paid in advance. One of the side bennies of insurance coverage is that you get the discount/network savings. Then again if the provider is willing to accept $100, that's all their service is worth IMO. >>
Every payment they collect, except for the cash customer, has been negotiated. Their initially jacked fee is just for negotiating purposes. Unfortunately the cash customer ends up paying the jacked fee. >>
I was referring to uninsured patients. I doubt they'd deal with you unless you were willing to pay up front. I understand that their deal with insurance companies is negotiated.
<< <i>
<< <i>His charges $840.50 Medicare approved $166.97 Medicare paid $130.91 me/supplemental $33.39 hospital charges for facilities $1795.40 approved $1795.40 paid $432.71 me/supplemental $110.39
Can't blame him/her for not seeing patients with Medicare or other Government sponsored plans. >>
They jack their initial charges to compensate for insurance reductions. Anyone paying full retail out of pocket (no insurance) should be negotiating the price before the service, providers don't espect to get full retail. It's all part of the scam. >>
Yep. I'm looking at an elective surgery next year and the hospital offers a 25% discount for cash payment within 30 days. Of course, after running everything through their billing systems, 30 days is really 6 months and "cash" includes credit cards.
Try comming up to the cash register on a Saturday night with a cart full of groceries and when they ring up your bill say "I have no money to pay for this" and see if you can walk away without issue.
That happens millions of times daily in this country in hospital Emergeny rooms. Hospitals cannot by law turn you away.
Yet, if you and your family are hungry....try walking out of the supermarket with a free cart of groceries.
Try walking in the other guys shoes.
Just sayin'!
Edit for: this is a precious metals forum.
We are WAY off topic here!
<< <i>Try walking into your neighborhood supermarket, drug store, auto repair shop or anywhere else and significantly "negotiate" the price down to a level that barely allows them to keep the shop lights on.
Try comming up to the cash register on a Saturday night with a cart full of groceries and when they ring up your bill say "I have no money to pay for this" and see if you can walk away without issue.
That happens millions of times daily in this country in hospital Emergeny rooms. Hospitals cannot by law turn you away.
Yet, if you and your family are hungry....try walking out of the supermarket with a free cart of groceries.
Try walking in the other guys shoes.
Just sayin'!
Edit for: this is a precious metals forum.
We are WAY off topic here! >>
Presumably, the money you save by not buying health insurance can permit you to buy/stack more PMs.
Really?
When I look at this website on my monitor for CU forums what is displayed on my screen is...
"Precious Metals
This is forum for the discussion of precious metals and how that relates to coin collecting."
I see no mention of economic news & information!
<< <i>"This is precious metals and economic news & information discussion forum"
Really?
When I look at this website on my monitor for CU forums what is displayed on my screen is...
"Precious Metals
This is forum for the discussion of precious metals and how that relates to coin collecting."
I see no mention of economic news & information!
>>
Look at the name of the primary thread from 2004-2009 that carried this "forum" for all those years on the other side before it was given it's own forum (ie >10,000 posts). Without that input for those 5 years,
there would have been no official PMs forum. We'd be all bored to tears if all we could talk about each day was the price of PMs & what the mint was selling this month. Many economic topics relate to the price of gold.
The thread that started it all in Dec 2004
I found it ironic that on the last page of the orig thread before it was locked due to being too large, the discussion was on national health care. And those points from 5 years ago seem just as viable today.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Try walking into your neighborhood supermarket, drug store, auto repair shop or anywhere else and significantly "negotiate" the price down to a level that barely allows them to keep the shop lights on.
Try comming up to the cash register on a Saturday night with a cart full of groceries and when they ring up your bill say "I have no money to pay for this" and see if you can walk away without issue.
That happens millions of times daily in this country in hospital Emergeny rooms. Hospitals cannot by law turn you away.
Yet, if you and your family are hungry....try walking out of the supermarket with a free cart of groceries.
Try walking in the other guys shoes.
Just sayin'!
Edit for: this is a precious metals forum.
We are WAY off topic here! >>
You don't think hospitals can keep the lights on even though they are marking up things like saline IV bags 500% ?
2 teaspoons of salt
<< <i>
<< <i>Try walking into your neighborhood supermarket, drug store, auto repair shop or anywhere else and significantly "negotiate" the price down to a level that barely allows them to keep the shop lights on.
Try comming up to the cash register on a Saturday night with a cart full of groceries and when they ring up your bill say "I have no money to pay for this" and see if you can walk away without issue.
That happens millions of times daily in this country in hospital Emergeny rooms. Hospitals cannot by law turn you away.
Yet, if you and your family are hungry....try walking out of the supermarket with a free cart of groceries.
Try walking in the other guys shoes.
Just sayin'!
Edit for: this is a precious metals forum.
We are WAY off topic here! >>
You don't think hospitals can keep the lights on even though they are marking up things like saline IV bags 500% ?
2 teaspoons of salt >>
Supermarkets figure the cost of theft and other forms of loss into their shelf prices. Hospitals also figure losses and overhead into room rates and markups on supplies and services. Oftimes they end up collecting about half of what they bill out. They make up for medicare deficiencies by charging more for insurance covered services or to those who can afford to pay more.
<< <i>I suspect our host has given the stacker forum some leeway as long as the discussion remains civil. >>
Yup and this seems to be the most civil of the active forums.
<< <i>I can beat that, I've never had health insurance even when I was working one of the most high risk occupations there is, tree work. >>
Neither did the typical industrial worker of the 1850's to 1950's. They relied on their country doctors to do what was right for them. Then again, in those times, diseases didn't typically bankrupt you.
<< <i>
<< <i>I can beat that, I've never had health insurance even when I was working one of the most high risk occupations there is, tree work. >>
Neither did the typical industrial worker of the 1850's to 1950's. They relied on their country doctors to do what was right for them. Then again, in those times, diseases didn't typically bankrupt you. >>
And they no longer accept chickens and cows as payment.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>I can beat that, I've never had health insurance even when I was working one of the most high risk occupations there is, tree work. >>
Neither did the typical industrial worker of the 1850's to 1950's. They relied on their country doctors to do what was right for them. Then again, in those times, diseases didn't typically bankrupt you. >>
Now it costs 20% for the healthy as well as the ill. In 2009, Arizona exempted organ transplants for those on Medicaid. The cry's of death panels were deafening. The state soon relented.
When did receiving a previously owned Heart become an entitlement?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>In san jose this past summer a homeless man who had been severely beaten was kept on life support for a month before he finally died. Who paid for this? >>
The county or Medicaid maybe?
<< <i>And they no longer accept chickens and cows as payment. >>
That just might be changing in the near future...in the US.
95% of the rest of the world already accepts those as payment for services rendered.
<< <i>In san jose this past summer a homeless man who had been severely beaten was kept on life support for a month before he finally died. Who paid for this? >>
Other people's money through higher fees and higher premiums.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>In san jose this past summer a homeless man who had been severely beaten was kept on life support for a month before he finally died. Who paid for this? >>
Other people's money through higher fees and higher premiums. >>
Bingo!
<< <i>I have to ask, do you have a family? What about assets? I had a bi-lateral pulmonary embolism this summer. 4 days in the hospital, $50,000. My cost with my high deductible plan, about $5,000. Up to that point I always thought insurance was stupid. If I had something worse, I wouldn't want to stick my wife and kids with the bills. >>
Everyone that I am responsible for is financially secure.
I don't think health insurance is stupid, I believe that it is way out of control. Many folks take horrid care of themselves and when they get ill, they expect the non smoking, non obese and non drug abusing suckers to cover their bills.
We do not expect to pay the same auto insurance tab as the fella with 2 or 3 dui's, yet we bend over for this new form of socialized protection. The healthy men in their 20's and 30's are really getting hosed in this program. Fortunately most are wise enough to pay the fine and move on.
Do you not think that your family has suffered by paying 20% of your earnings for medical care? You mentioned a $50k hospital bill, for what, did you have surgery or just lay there as they brought you dinner, took your blood pressure and gave you some $100 pills.
I always wondered about the $250,000 Cardiac bypass surgery. Now that amount of money will build you a pretty decent 4 bedroom home in my town. Somehow we are to believe that the 8 well trained folks in that OR for 8 hours are worth the same as the work put into building a home. Lets not forget the value of the property and materials as well.
As long as most of us bow obsequiously to the lords of medicine and the shylock insurers and politicians that feed from the same trough, we will certainly get more of the same.
<< <i>Two acquaintances were diagnosed with Cancer a bit over a year ago. One was given a 5% chance to survive 5 years, the other with Bladder Cancer was told no problem, we can fix this. he died 2 weeks ago. The other guy is expected to live maybe another 6 months as the disease has spread.
$1,000,000 each for what? really for what? 15 months of toxic poison coursing through their veins?
Let me drive the Italian convertible, not the Doc. >>
I wish you the best with or without insurance.
Toxic poisoning saved my life, after one chemo treatment my pain was gone. While I still had to follow up with all the other scheduled poisonings it was well worth it.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>
<< <i>Two acquaintances were diagnosed with Cancer a bit over a year ago. One was given a 5% chance to survive 5 years, the other with Bladder Cancer was told no problem, we can fix this. he died 2 weeks ago. The other guy is expected to live maybe another 6 months as the disease has spread.
$1,000,000 each for what? really for what? 15 months of toxic poison coursing through their veins?
Let me drive the Italian convertible, not the Doc. >>
I wish you the best with or without insurance.
Toxic poisoning saved my life, after one chemo treatment my pain was gone. While I still had to follow up with all the other scheduled poisonings it was well worth it. >>
Glad you survived. I spent the holidays comforting a new widow and her adult daughter.
Choose to take the potions you wish.
BTW..it was my father's doctor in Nevada that called the stuff poison, the idea was not mine.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Two acquaintances were diagnosed with Cancer a bit over a year ago. One was given a 5% chance to survive 5 years, the other with Bladder Cancer was told no problem, we can fix this. he died 2 weeks ago. The other guy is expected to live maybe another 6 months as the disease has spread.
$1,000,000 each for what? really for what? 15 months of toxic poison coursing through their veins?
Let me drive the Italian convertible, not the Doc. >>
I wish you the best with or without insurance.
Toxic poisoning saved my life, after one chemo treatment my pain was gone. While I still had to follow up with all the other scheduled poisonings it was well worth it. >>
Glad you survived. I spent the holidays comforting a new widow and her adult daughter.
Choose to take the potions you wish.
BTW..it was my father's doctor in Nevada that called the stuff poison, the idea was not mine. >>
BTW don't take it the wrong way I totally agree it's poison and man was I glad I took it, it was better then the pain and agony I had before the treatment.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I have a kid in college and one in high school. Glad to still be alive. You act all smug like you know it all. All it takes is one bad driver and you could be wiped out. You're not smart. You're just lucky. And stupid. Good luck.
<< <i>BTW-just curious to know what your previous handle was before getting banned and coming back as this one? >>
Never been banned from this fine locale. Calling another poster stupid though may get you a quick ticket out.
BTW- your OT posts will get you banned quicker than me calling you stupid.
<< <i>1000 posts in less than 2 months? I don't believe you.
BTW- your OT posts will get you banned quicker than me calling you stupid. >>
Not sure that a thread about 18% of the economy which has choked the US government with paralyzing debt and unsecured money production is irrelevant to the future of precious metals.
Have a nice day
<< <i>the guys on the openforum had a theory as to who you were. I'll just leave it at that.
Have a nice day >>
I use my name as my handle. What are you hiding with the dbcoin?
Do a good enough job brainwashing and the pawns will even vote for their own loss of control.
I don't know about you, i'd rather live on my feet than die on my knees. +1 Glicker
<< <i>1000 posts in less than 2 months? I don't believe you.
BTW- your OT posts will get you banned quicker than me calling you stupid. >>
Believe him. Mark has been a member here for a number of years. He just recently returned from a hiatus of about 4 years or so.
It doesn't seem fair to me that you can make such an assertion, when your own handle doesn't date back as far as OFR.
Back to the insurance debate - they could've reduced insurance rates by offering competition across state lines, and they didn't do it. Why not? Because it has never been about insurance.
Your $5,000 deductible plan should have cost half what you've paid and your deductible should have cost $2,500. It's always been about screwing people who worked and saved, for cheap votes. Nothing more, nothing less.
Glad to hear that they were able to save your life. Too much money is being wasted on an inefficient and bloated system, and THAT's the problem because it simply means that fewer and fewer people will have the good fortune to be saved.
I knew it would happen.
This Affordable Care Act is a tax. Until you wrap yours heads around that fact, this empire is doomed. Come tomorrow, people will be denied, people will be taxed, (higher premiums), and as we see from the blogger "I will not have health insurance". Another tax is not what the west needs.
One positive result of this government tax, doctors, hospitals will take cash and discount. Go find a Doctor who will take cash. Agreed, the single payer system will happen quickly. Most premiums will be too high for the middle class.