Ebay Case Advice: Buyer claims package received with card missing!
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Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭
To give a brief background of case: Package was mailed out on December 1st and scheduled for delivery on December 6th. For Some reason delivery was delayed and package was sent to a sorting facility in MA (address of buyer is in NJ). Package left sorting facility yesterday and I received confirmation of delivery today. I messaged buyer, who had already opened a case and let him know the good news and requested he close the case and leave positive feedback. Below is the response I received:
"Brian: What was delivered today was a padded envelope that has been cut open twice and inside was a couple of pieces of cardboard. On the side of the padded envelope where the stamps were applied it is address: removed to protect this person's ID, it was someone I recently purchased a card from. On the other side is a USPS label that was attached over top of another USPS label that is addressed to: my home address. It is now apparent why this package was shipped to NY and someone opened it up and removed the card. I am requesting a refund of my purchase since I did not receive what I paid for. If you don't feel obligated to refund my purchase, I will escalate the case in ebay and appropriate feedback will be posted. Please let me know your decision."
I am still not 100% sure what he is saying was received. It doesn't even sound like my shipping label is on the package anymore? If so, how did it get to his house? Sounds like the envelope he received is addressed to me (I typically reuse padded envelopes received and just tape the new label over old information).
What do you guys suggest I do? He paid $61 for the item, so we are not talking about a ton of money.
"Brian: What was delivered today was a padded envelope that has been cut open twice and inside was a couple of pieces of cardboard. On the side of the padded envelope where the stamps were applied it is address: removed to protect this person's ID, it was someone I recently purchased a card from. On the other side is a USPS label that was attached over top of another USPS label that is addressed to: my home address. It is now apparent why this package was shipped to NY and someone opened it up and removed the card. I am requesting a refund of my purchase since I did not receive what I paid for. If you don't feel obligated to refund my purchase, I will escalate the case in ebay and appropriate feedback will be posted. Please let me know your decision."
I am still not 100% sure what he is saying was received. It doesn't even sound like my shipping label is on the package anymore? If so, how did it get to his house? Sounds like the envelope he received is addressed to me (I typically reuse padded envelopes received and just tape the new label over old information).
What do you guys suggest I do? He paid $61 for the item, so we are not talking about a ton of money.
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Comments
Casey
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<< <i>"If you don't feel obligated to refund my purchase, I will escalate the case in ebay and appropriate feedback will be posted."
>>
I wonder if that would qualify as feedback extortion.
<< <i>
<< <i>"If you don't feel obligated to refund my purchase, I will escalate the case in ebay and appropriate feedback will be posted."
>>
I wonder if that would qualify as feedback extortion. >>
No. Appropriate means just that. I agree with Guy. If someone writes this articulately to describe the situation, I do not believe they are scamming.
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"Now you are being ridiculous. I posted a photo showing how you re-used an envelope that had another address on it. Of course it had the USPS label on the other side, otherwise it would not have been delivered. I am finished participating with this run around, delay tactic. I will not respond to further messages and will escalate the claim on Monday."
How hard is it to send a few more pictures? I explained he needs to put himself in my shoes, anybody can just say they received an empty envelope.
I am sure this happens, have any of you guys received an empty package from an ebay transaction? I personally have not.
My company works with USPS lost and damaged mail and I know they do not delivered ripped mail without inserting into bag or slipping in slip and resealing package.
That is an excellent point.
I just can't decide if $61 is worth damaging my ebay feedback. My feedback
Given the tracking history you noted and the addressing issue, it sound completely plausible that the "buyer" is telling the truth and as such, I can completely understand his frustration. Leaving a trace of a previous address, let alone and entire address, is only inviting trouble. It seems that you've found it.
<< <i>I wouldn't refund. Sounds like he is using the misrouting and the recycled envelope as an excuse to scam. He probably pumped his fist and yelled "JACKPOT!" when he saw the mailer. >>
I TOTALLY agree now. I didn't think it sounded like a scam until his response about sending a pic of the other side of the envelope. If he'd go to the trouble of sending one why in the world would he not send the one you needed for verification??? I don't think I'd refund him now. Let him escalate it and give it to Ebay. I've taken a negative feedback from a scammer for less money than that and still would.
As far as the case goes, I think I am going to let him escalate and take the feedback hit. I think there is a chance he is a scammer and I don't want him to get away with it if he is.
Odd that the buyer is so impatient for sure. I have ebay issues now and again and most end up resolved in a reasonable manner. Only a few have turned sour thankfully.
I just had a package delivered from a well know dealer of junk/overstock items that contained about 20 different ebay lots and it was missing 2 items. the package did not appear to be tampered with, nor was it damaged in any way. Both were small sets that i won for $1.99 each, but all of the lots were fairly low dollar items. they have not yet responded with their plan of action. Ideally they either have duplicates or forgot to pack them, but someone initialed the packing list, which was a copy of all of my lots. If you are including a packing list and signing it, how do you miss items???
It has been stated here that even if you open a package in front of a postal employee and item is not there, that is of no help!?!?!?
I have no doubt that you sent the item, I am not as sure the buyer got it. His attitude could be explainable as well if the card was missing. More pictures would have been nice, but the one you got does show the package had some confusing labeling.
You have said that you have learned your lesson on reusing envelopes, so I won't bash you on that, but it was a mistake and COULD be what caused the problem.
Buyer could also be a scammer.
Also, sorry to say LOTS of packages get delivered that are damaged with no postal notations, that is a FACT!
Please follow up with how the process unfolds.
Good luck
<< <i>It has been stated here that even if you open a package in front of a postal employee and item is not there, that is of no help!?!?!? >>
I call BS on that one. Along time ago when I first joined the board, a member (gameusedhoop) gave me the advice to open a package in front of the postal employee. (I had a problem with a buyer wanting to return a PSA graded card). Well, what the package contained, which was sent signature confirmation, was empty PSA shell casings from cracked slabs. I called PayPal immediately, the PayPal employee spoke with the postal worker, and the scammers case was dropped immediately and my money restored. It is of my belief, that if I HAD NOT opened that package in front of the postal employee, I would have been out around $200.
<< <i>
<< <i>It has been stated here that even if you open a package in front of a postal employee and item is not there, that is of no help!?!?!? >>
I call BS on that one. Along time ago when I first joined the board, a member (gameusedhoop) gave me the advice to open a package in front of the postal employee. (I had a problem with a buyer wanting to return a PSA graded card). Well, what the package contained, which was sent signature confirmation, was empty PSA shell casings from cracked slabs. I called PayPal immediately, the PayPal employee spoke with the postal worker, and the scammers case was dropped immediately and my money restored. It is of my belief, that if I HAD NOT opened that package in front of the postal employee, I would have been out around $200. >>
Do you have their ebay id so I can block them?
<< <i>So, the image that he sent is the backside of the envelope you sent? Assuming the other side had the proper address label...
Given the tracking history you noted and the addressing issue, it sound completely plausible that the "buyer" is telling the truth and as such, I can completely understand his frustration. Leaving a trace of a previous address, let alone and entire address, is only inviting trouble. It seems that you've found it. >>
This.
I've received plenty of torn/ripped mailers via USPS and to say they always bag or reseal prior to delivery is not true. Also, I wouldn't recommend reusing mailers but if you do, block out the previous addresses with a Sharpie or black marker rather than a simple X.
<< <i>
<< <i>It has been stated here that even if you open a package in front of a postal employee and item is not there, that is of no help!?!?!? >>
I call BS on that one. Along time ago when I first joined the board, a member (gameusedhoop) gave me the advice to open a package in front of the postal employee. (I had a problem with a buyer wanting to return a PSA graded card). Well, what the package contained, which was sent signature confirmation, was empty PSA shell casings from cracked slabs. I called PayPal immediately, the PayPal employee spoke with the postal worker, and the scammers case was dropped immediately and my money restored. It is of my belief, that if I HAD NOT opened that package in front of the postal employee, I would have been out around $200. >>
If I remember correctly (and I may not) there was a guy who posted here regularly when it came to P.O. issues. I think he either works at the P.O. or used to. His statement was that Postmaster didn't want to get involved with these kind of disputes, now if that's wrong, or I am "misremembering" fine.
If you got an individual to help you that is great, but that's what I remember, not their policy to get involved.
If not then addy is covered with a white label.
I have had a few cards delivered where the buyer said card was gone and ne delivered w/o card.
So I know it happens and it has to be a usps employee. One whole package was stolen many years ago
and never left the original PO.
Since I started taping shipping bubble envelopes completely...no problems. I now tape both ends of the package and 3 strips across most of the middle to make it impossible for
a usps employee to easily tear open package w/o cutting. They hold up much better to severe handling without tearing.
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<< <i>
<< <i>"If you don't feel obligated to refund my purchase, I will escalate the case in ebay and appropriate feedback will be posted."
>>
I wonder if that would qualify as feedback extortion. >>
While I would refund him, I would also report this as feedback extortion. While I don't believe this is feedback extortion, ebay certainly does. You can never mention feedback while asking for something from the seller (refund, partial refund, etc....) I disagree with the definition, but this is ebay's position.
>
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>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
<< <i>Those of you who claim the USPS won't deliver a ripped envelope unless it is in one of their bags are sadly mistaken. I have received ripped mailers on several occasions. One had a card peeking out even! I was fortunate to only have lost cards in one of the torn mailers, but it still stings, especially since after all the back and forth between the seller and i and delays getting time to go to the PO, I missed the insurance cut-off (apparently time is limited when you need to file a claim, as i had never run into the need before that, or since)! it was a couple 56 tops autographed cards, including Rizzuto, before he passed. Replacement cost has since risen dramatically for me.
Odd that the buyer is so impatient for sure. I have ebay issues now and again and most end up resolved in a reasonable manner. Only a few have turned sour thankfully.
I just had a package delivered from a well know dealer of junk/overstock items that contained about 20 different ebay lots and it was missing 2 items. the package did not appear to be tampered with, nor was it damaged in any way. Both were small sets that i won for $1.99 each, but all of the lots were fairly low dollar items. they have not yet responded with their plan of action. Ideally they either have duplicates or forgot to pack them, but someone initialed the packing list, which was a copy of all of my lots. If you are including a packing list and signing it, how do you miss items??? >>
i can second this. i have gotten opened items in my PO box. normally the only time i get it in a bag is when it has been nearly completely shredded.
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<< <i>To give a brief background of case: Package was mailed out on December 1st and scheduled for delivery on December 6th. For Some reason delivery was delayed and package was sent to a sorting facility in MA (address of buyer is in NJ). Package left sorting facility yesterday and I received confirmation of delivery today. I messaged buyer, who had already opened a case and let him know the good news and requested he close the case and leave positive feedback. Below is the response I received:
"Brian: What was delivered today was a padded envelope that has been cut open twice and inside was a couple of pieces of cardboard. On the side of the padded envelope where the stamps were applied it is address: removed to protect this person's ID, it was someone I recently purchased a card from. On the other side is a USPS label that was attached over top of another USPS label that is addressed to: my home address. It is now apparent why this package was shipped to NY and someone opened it up and removed the card. I am requesting a refund of my purchase since I did not receive what I paid for. If you don't feel obligated to refund my purchase, I will escalate the case in ebay and appropriate feedback will be posted. Please let me know your decision."
I am still not 100% sure what he is saying was received. It doesn't even sound like my shipping label is on the package anymore? If so, how did it get to his house? Sounds like the envelope he received is addressed to me (I typically reuse padded envelopes received and just tape the new label over old information).
What do you guys suggest I do? He paid $61 for the item, so we are not talking about a ton of money. >>
i wasn't able to see the scan you said you posted. but clearly this is a potential issue using recycled mailers and not taking care to make sure all old addresses are covered. so you sent a package that basically had two addresses exposed to the USPS and another hidden. that mailer sure has made the rounds. clearly it seems you didn't do a good job prepping your package for delivery. while it is always possible that the buyer is pulling a scam it is just as possible that the package was opened in shipping as well. how is the buyers feedback? does he have any hits on him? i for one have gotten packages in my PO box that have been opened and not in the plastic baggy. sometimes i am sure they don't catch open items if there aren't big rips. again i can't see the scan you posted.
your right $61 isn't a ton of money but its still money. then again it is enough that you are hesitant to refund. on the other had its not a $1+$4 shipping that you put in a package that was not properly labeled for shipping. how would you want it resolved if you were on the other end of the package?
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<< <i>If he leaves negative feedback, call up ebay and let them know about the feedback extortion that he used in his first email through ebay. I am almost certain that his negative feedback will be removed. >>
i take his comment as not one of feedback extortion but of one that will tell the truth. if some agreement is reached between the two to me he is saying he won't leave a negative feedback as some arrangement was made. if i get an empty package in the mail i expect to be refunded some amount of $ for the item that wasn't there. even more so when package has multiple addresses on it and was at first misdirected by USPS probably because of the address issues with the package.
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<< <i>i take his comment as not one of feedback extortion but of one that will tell the truth. if some agreement is reached between the two to me he is saying he won't leave a negative feedback as some arrangement was made. if i get an empty package in the mail i expect to be refunded some amount of $ for the item that wasn't there. even more so when package has multiple addresses on it and was at first misdirected by USPS probably because of the address issues with the package >>
True. But if I was totally in the clear and trying to convice the seller that I was not at fault, I would do everything within my power to show that I was a victim, and not be combative. The bidder in this instance is being combative, and with him acting like that, I am not convinced that it played out the way he said.
<< <i>
<< <i>i take his comment as not one of feedback extortion but of one that will tell the truth. if some agreement is reached between the two to me he is saying he won't leave a negative feedback as some arrangement was made. if i get an empty package in the mail i expect to be refunded some amount of $ for the item that wasn't there. even more so when package has multiple addresses on it and was at first misdirected by USPS probably because of the address issues with the package >>
True. But if I was totally in the clear and trying to convice the seller that I was not at fault, I would do everything within my power to show that I was a victim, and not be combative. The bidder in this instance is being combative, and with him acting like that, I am not convinced that it played out the way he said. >>
your right i forgot…ebay sellers always in the clear…buyers on the other hand always out to scam
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<< <i>your right i forgot…ebay sellers always in the clear…buyers on the other hand always out to scam >>
Now you are being downirght silly. How hard is it to take a pic of the "label" that he claims was put on the package?? Your answer does absolutely nothing to change anything. The buyer is being combative, like he is hiding something.....if it smells like a fish, guess what??? I would like to ID as well.....
<< <i>
<< <i>your right i forgot…ebay sellers always in the clear…buyers on the other hand always out to scam >>
Now you are being downirght silly. How hard is it to take a pic of the "label" that he claims was put on the package?? Your answer does absolutely nothing to change anything. The buyer is being combative, like he is hiding something.....if it smells like a fish, guess what??? I would like to ID as well..... >>
Clearly the label is on the other side. If not how did it get to him? The thing that no pic will ever telll anyone is if the package came to him opened without a card. A scan of the front, while being complete would not give anyone any idea of how the package came to him. So in some respects asking for another scan could sound like a bunch of run around to the buyer. Hell he got the said package that is not the dispute
My last point was a little sarcastic but that is what I have tended to take from this board about eBay. The more people question every last thing he does or how he parses his words doesn't give me any other feeling. I have gotten opened empty mailers myself. He is not questioning whether the item was sent but saying that when he got package there was nothing in it. The real question is at what point is the seller responsible for delivery. Just until he drops a package in the mail? Is seller responsible for potential issues using recycled mailers or poorly addressed mailers? I have had people send me cards in recycled mailers that don't tape the opening all the way, then send the package off to the Chicago are in the middle of winter. Guess what water finds small openings and wicks in. Now they did send me the package, but as it there fault that water got in?
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<< <i>This whole issue is Bush's fault >>
LOL +1
<< <i>Thanks guys, should I at least call eBay/PayPal and describe situation, before issuing refund? Maybe they can handle the issue and make both parties happy? >>
Did you insure the item and did you contact your postmaster? If you have a good postmaster, they can at least contact the postmaster in the buyer's city.
<< <i>Did you insure the item and did you contact your postmaster? If you have a good postmaster, they can at least contact the postmaster in the buyer's city. >>
No I didn't insure, typically I only insure if over $100. Contacting local postmaster is a good idea thanks
To be honest, no direction, but...
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<< <i>I ordered a PSA graded card and received the bubble mailer sealed with no card inside. >>
Who was the seller?
<< <i>Actually contacting the local postmaster will do very little or nothing. If anything, it will keep your frustration alive and will give you more time seeking a resolution from an entity that doesn't care and won't get involved. >>
<< <i>Actually contacting the local postmaster will do very little or nothing. If anything, it will keep your frustration alive and will give you more time seeking a resolution from an entity that doesn't care and won't get involved. >>
That is not true. If someone at the post office puts a parcel through the letter sorter, the package will be damaged and the practice needs to be stopped. Even worse, if they have a thief amongst them, they take that seriously even more so. I had several empty packages/damaged packages and when my postmaster got after the sorting facility, there was overall noticeable improvement. My postmaster is a "pit bull" when it comes to doing the job right and holds people accountable